Paris attacks (6 Viewers)

[zebrettino]

plus people saying that Saudi Arabia are funding these extremist and radicals either clueless or extremely naive.

The first countries that ever been hit by these terrorists in the Middle East (even before 9/11) are both Egypt and Saudi Arabia back in the 90's. So if they're funding these groups why would they target them ?

People tend to mix between some radical laws in Saudi Arabia (specially against women rights plus other sharia laws) and supporting these groups. Being an Iraqi and shia I'm the last one that should defend Saudi Arabia but reality these extremist hate the Saudi's government even more so than any other western country.

Really? Yes, they hate the Saudi government for allowing American troops to be stationed in the country. But why isn't Saudi Arabia being hit with weekly suicide bombings like other countries in the region? Because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabi...ack-obama-prince-bandar-bin-sultan-bob-297170

 

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[IliveForJuve]

I'm Saudi and I feel offended.

 

[Mohad]

Really? Yes, they hate the Saudi government for allowing American troops to be stationed in the country. But why isn't Saudi Arabia being hit with weekly suicide bombings like other countries in the region? Because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabi...ack-obama-prince-bandar-bin-sultan-bob-297170

Tell me how do you know about that?

 

[zebrettino]

I'm Saudi and I feel offended.

You're offended by the accusation that people in the Saudi government fund terrorists? This is not something new, and it's not an attack against Saudi people. What offends you about it, and what difference is the statement "I'm offended by something that is very likely true" supposed to make? Instead of saying "I'm offended," prove to me that I'm wrong.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/

Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra, to the point that a senior Qatari official told me he can identify al-Nusra commanders by the blocks they control in various Syrian cities. But ISIS is another matter. As one senior Qatari official stated, “ISIS has been a Saudi project.”

ISIS, in fact, may have been a major part of Bandar’s covert-ops strategy in Syria. The Saudi government, for its part, has denied allegations, including claims made by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, that it has directly supported ISIS. But there are also signs that the kingdom recently shifted its assistance—whether direct or indirect—away from extremist factions in Syria and toward more moderate opposition groups.

 

[Mohad]

You're offended by the accusation that people in the Saudi government fund terrorists? This is not something new, and it's not an attack against Saudi people. What offends you about it, and what difference is the statement "I'm offended by something that is very likely true" supposed to make? Instead of saying "I'm offended," prove to me that I'm wrong.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/

You didn't answer to my question.

 

[only-juve]

Really? Yes, they hate the Saudi government for allowing American troops to be stationed in the country. But why isn't Saudi Arabia being hit with weekly suicide bombings like other countries in the region? Because you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabi...ack-obama-prince-bandar-bin-sultan-bob-297170

You serious !!

There isn't a week that goes by recently without a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia.

They've been hit with terrorists since the 1960's ! And that was waaay before anyone heard about these extremist groups in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_militant_incidents_in_Saudi_Arabia

 

[Mohad]

Ignorance is bliss, you know.

 

[swag]

Nothing to see here in Saudi Arabia. Move along, everyone...

 

[.zero]

Nothing to see here in Saudi Arabia. Move along, everyone...

I think that was a direct quote from Anthony Bourdain actually

 

[swag]

I think that was a direct quote from Anthony Bourdain actually

I think you're confusing that with, "Where's an alcoholic got to go in this godforsaken place to destroy his liver around here?"

 

[zebrettino]

You serious !!

There isn't a week that goes by recently without a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia.

They've been hit with terrorists since the 1960's ! And that was waaay before anyone heard about these extremist groups in the world.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_militant_incidents_in_Saudi_Arabia

Lots of attacks against foreign nationals in Saudi Arabia, lots of attacks against shia, attacks against the military... it doesn't disprove the many allegations that the Saudis fund extremist groups...? There is absolutely no evidence or reason to believe that Iraq or Iran had anything to do with terrorist attacks in the west, but if the US government would finally release the blanked-out pages of the 9/11 report on the Saudi government, we'd have a better idea...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ng-to-saudi-arabia-is-drawing-much-attention/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...bia-financed-911-attack-redacted-by-Bush.html

 

[swag]

I think you're missing the point. We all know that the Saudis are behind a lot of global terrorist funding. We don't agree that Saudi Arabia is free of terrorism domestically.

 

[Bisco]

Maybe Ahmed thought like that at the beginning. I understand he was happy that Sisi took over instead of the Muslims Brotherhood but right now things are different.

@Bisco

I'd take my chances on the streets of Paris any day over riding a ferry in SE Asia, that's for sure.



Well, it's not like Turkey didn't publicly warn Russia already. What did they expect?

Man, for everywhere Putin sticks his deck these days, a Russian plane falls out of the sky.



I'm not sure Sisi is getting holiday greeting cards from Ahmed. But I am sure the Brotherhood's militarizing thugs and Morsi's unfettered power grab wasn't exactly presenting a better future for Egypt.

i think he is running the country to an inevitable collapse with how he handles key issues like the economy, the ever growing influence of the military in both domestic and foreign policies, his massive crack down on human rights ( even if they are MB members they should be trailed or acquitted if innocent but as things remain the amount of detained people waiting to stand in front of a judge is way to much!) over all i think he is as weak as morsi, and is also very un creative!! he still remains popular but in comparison to his popularity when he was still defense minister he has lost quite a lot of support specially from the youth. if there is an indication of how bad things are its how egypt handled the Russian catastrophe in sinai! ( the insistence on resolving this particular issue with force really back fired as every one expected but this doesn't seem to change how they go on about this particular topic. the fact a bomb made its way through all the check points in sinai and through the check points in the airport its self is a clear indication the security apparatus isn't working since its busy targeting activists, and journalists instead of focusing on there main job!! protecting the country. i personally dislike the amount of money Egypt is spending on the military ( 24 Rafael fighter jets from France, 2 helicopter carriers ( mistral, that from a military point of view will not be ready to get into service until the navy A- finds a way for them to feature in there tactics B. the sailors receive intense training as to how to maximize its efficiency as a naval unit) i think the money should've been spent on education which according to recent statistics comes in the last place only ahead of guienia, or a total reformation of the health system in Egypt which is a catastrophe!! instead sisi is spending resources we are told don't exist on buying weaponry i firmly believe Egypt doesn't need. foreign policy wise, i simply dislike how much power the Uae and the saudi's have over Egypt's positioning in key issues like libya, syria, and yemen. after all they have this power over egypt because they literally bailed the Egyptian economy, non the less i think if the Egyptian regime has a brain the solution to egypt's problems is putting in place a truly democratic system where all political institutions have equal say on key issues ( a check and balance system) however as long as Egypt remains to be ruled by one figure and the military i am afraid we will remain in this pit we find our selves in. finally i think sisi had a historical chance to put egypt in the right direction, this chance was after removing morsi, re-writing a constitutions that sets every thing in stone and calling for elections ( where he does not take part in!!!i supported the removal of morsi however i didn't support the fact he ran for president) this would mean should the islamists come to power in the future they can not force their views on the country! as it would be unconstitutional. but instead he ran for office, and it went south pretty fast for him as expected.

 

[Eddy]

Nothing to see here in Saudi Arabia. Move along, everyone...

There literally isn't. That part of the region is literally the hillbilly state of the Middle-East.

 

[Bisco]

There literally isn't. That part of the region is literally the hillbilly state of the Middle-East.

i think things are actually changing however slow they might appear. i think the new generations coming out, specially those who go abroad to study are starting to realize things are not soo awesome after all back home. also i think the women over there are starting to prove their abilities despite the restrictions imposed on them, take for instance the new breed of business women proving themselves. this was not the case ten years ago at least.

 

[only-juve]

i think things are actually changing however slow they might appear. i think the new generations coming out, specially those who go abroad to study are starting to realize things are not soo awesome after all back home. also i think the women over there are starting to prove their abilities despite the restrictions imposed on them, take for instance the new breed of business women proving themselves. this was not the case ten years ago at least.

lots of changes happened in Saudi Arabia through the years. They're still a conservative country but many things changed.

I went there as a kid first back at the late 80's, and went back there 4-5 years ago I would've not recognized it.

I believe the government there wants to make changes but the religious sheikhs are against that change. I think their officials are right to take it slowly because a sudden/fast changes can really destabilize the country, but it will happen eventually, one can see it coming.

In a way thats reminds me of the African American racism in the U.S., it took them more than a century to eventually change that. It's a similar situation IMO.

 

[Hængebøffer]

"still a conservative country" is the understatement of the year.

 

[Nenz]

This is nonsense, the regime never promoted stability in the region, not in Lebanon, Palestine or Iraq. We can go into details if you wish.

I would understand if you had to pick between ISIS or Assad regime but to say the regime brings stability is pure nonsense and bull$#@! and at the end of the day they are both bloody vampires and like I said before one executes silently and off the Camera whereas the other is on drugs and does it on set.

Who are you to decide what they need? Dictators were brought by the West Agenda's at the first place. And basically what you are saying you have no problem if citizens are murdered and have no rights so long it brings political tension down? Are you aware that with dictators or not it's still easy to produce individual terrorists and chaos? Unless you are North Korea and you serve no use for the foreign Agenda's so far.

Nothing is absolute, you're right. But isn't it fair to make the comparison between states under dictatorship and failed states stuck in even more bloody quagmires? Take into account suffering in aggregate terms. Sometimes the least worst option needs to be chosen. Of course conversely you could say that nothing good comes easy and that many of today's flourishing democracies were born out of periods of horrific conflict - the French revolution is the best example. But the Syrian revolution is uniquely complex. It's occurring in a strategically geopolitical foothold at a time of unprecedented globalisation. For some nations, a revolution can no longer be their own to see out and the prospect of only a few alternatives which represent the true national interest has diminished in Syria because of foreign involvement. Wahabism is an imported ideology, what's left of Syria's moderate opposition are now indebted to the west and the same goes for Assad with Russia and Iran. Big powers have a lot to lose in defeat and much to gain in victory.

Looking at other old autocracies, their transitions into democracy are a mixed bag. Britain had a very measured and relatively peaceful transition, France endured horrible terror for decades and then more dictatorship until they made theirs. The only recurrent theme is that successful transitions from dictatorships and monarchies into democracies were predominantly made out of at least some key pre-existing political structures to which incremental reform was made. When the slate was wiped clean in Iraq, a power vacuum ensued which falsely posed as an orderly power transition. With the hubris brought about by the inevitable honeymoon that follows the removal of a brutal dictator, over-enthusiastic deconstructionism took hold and so establishing democracy in Iraq and a rule of law throughout it, without any familiar political structures to guide it's polity has proved an abject failure.

Therefore, the best bet for long term stability and peace in Syria is to salvage what it can of the old order and inevitably reform it beyond recognition over time under the guidance of mediators and power brokers in Russia, Iran and the US, NATO and other regional players. Assad's demise, as loosely agreed by the US and Russia is nearly beyond doubt. His leadership couldn't possibly be considered tenable. It's just a matter of when and how it will occur. And knowing that Assad will not relinquish control without disproportionate and violent retaliation (unlike some other past dictators who have readily fled into exile), concessions must be made by impatient revolutionaries if they want anything positive to come out of this conflict.

That might seem like a vague and ignorant analysis. I respect that you know a lot more about your own region than me. This is a culmination of too many wasted hours studying international relations and the like. So I hope you're not offended if some white guy on the other side of the world indulges himself. And sorry for the long posts

 

[Juliano13]

lots of changes happened in Saudi Arabia through the years. They're still a conservative country but many things changed.

I went there as a kid first back at the late 80's, and went back there 4-5 years ago I would've not recognized it.

I believe the government there wants to make changes but the religious sheikhs are against that change. I think their officials are right to take it slowly because a sudden/fast changes can really destabilize the country, but it will happen eventually, one can see it coming.

In a way thats reminds me of the African American racism in the U.S., it took them more than a century to eventually change that. It's a similar situation IMO.

Im curious, can you explain that in more detail, some examples? Ive never been to Saudi Arabia, but I find that hard to believe, considering that it is the source of the disease Islamism. If you are right, its good news.