Official Azzurri (Italy) Euro 2008 Thread (16 Viewers)

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swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,795
Did Spain play the better football?Yes,they did.Again,where did I say otherwise?I just said that Spain wasn't superior because they weren't able to score.Superior to me means scoring the required goal more than the other team.Superior to you probably means playing better.
:confused:

I guess I am confused then. According to your definition, no team can play superior to another without also winning.

As in "Croatia played superior to Austria in their 1-0 opening victory".
 

Marceℓℓo

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2007
7,242
If it were pure luck, that would mean it has not skill, and that my mom and Delpie would have the same chances.

Don't act like an idiot. There is a lot of skill involved. But, there is also a lot of chance.
EVERY player should be able to score from a penalty no matter if it's Stam,Pango or Fat Stomacchoni.The first 5 penalty takers have the same chances to score IMO.Therefore I think luck plays a big role at penalties
Italy closed the game down because they had nothing to offer like the Spaniards at the other end of the pitch.

So saying that Italy played a great game defensively only covers for the fact that they had no other choice, since they were so pathetic in attack. Maybe these kind of tactics are great for Greece in '04, but you would think Italy would be better than resorting to that and hoping PKs would bail them out.
Italy played superb defensively but the offense was horrible.With offense I mean the midfield aswell.There wasn't any creativety at all due to Donadoni's weak decision to play Perrotta as a so called trequartista.
I said so myself;).
 

Snoop

Sabet is a nasty virgin
Oct 2, 2001
28,186
Spain played the better football, had more meaningful chances than Italy, and I'm glad the better team won. That's all that matters.

Like I said before, you know you have a problem where your number 10 is De Rossi and your attacking midfielder is Perrotta.

But that's all Italy has at the moment. Nothing impressive whatsoever. People don't want Amauri for retarded reasons, yet he would have scored in this tournament. Everybody else up top for the Azzurri minus Alex is overrated crap and tosh. The defense apart from Chiellini is utter horse piss, so tell me, what exactly is so great about these players on this side that made people think Italy would challenge for these Euros while knowing Donadoni is the manager?

PS - And it's not all Donadoni's fault. Many players choked.
Many players chocked because of the tactics, and the position they played. If the coach tells you to stay behind all the time, and shoot the ball towards Toni when they have it, even if it is in their own side, then not even Maradona could do anything with this team and tactics. If you play with 4 defenders, and 3 or even 4 defensive midfielders, and one striker front and alone, who could do anything?

I am sure you guys are insulting Greece by comparing their performance with Italy's. Greece were very organized team back then, they knew how to pass the ball, yes the team were defending all together, but when they attacked, they didn't pass the ball from defense to the attacker, they attacked smartly and very quick, they deserved it! Italy is totally different case. They had no clue what they were doing, they were just expecting a red card or a penalty to their opponents.

They played it for penalties, like Italy is penalty experts, like Buffon is a penalty expert. :disagree:
 

Marceℓℓo

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2007
7,242
:confused:

I guess I am confused then. According to your definition, no team can play superior to another without also winning.

As in "Croatia played superior to Austria in their 1-0 opening victory".
What I wanted to say is you can play as superior as you want but the goals decide a match.As you see in the Croatia match.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Face it : Del Piero was bad.
Why was he bad ?
There are reasons why, but the fact is he was bad and he didn't do anything at all.

Don't you realise that you're never objective about Del Piero ? Even when he's awful you find ways to say that he was the best.

It's annoying, it really is.
Alen, I know that you're pretty good reader in football from what I've noticed.

Del Piero wasn't the best and I don't think ZAF said that, but to say he was bad, is really out of the line....There's a diff between a poor player who didn't use his chances well to score and a player who didn't show up thanks to that fuckface Donadoni tactics...

The man was a VICTIM of Donadoni's fucked up system. You can't say he was bad just because he didn't take part of these awful crosses Italy played in this tournament.

Just like I don't accept someone saying Trezeguet was bad, awful or poor just because he didn't score....we have to look deeper into things....the man was a victim.

All this is true.

Del Piero was bad when he played, but the one to blame for that is Donadoni and only Donadoni.
He had a lethal weapon in Del Piero and he didn't know how to use it.
Thank you Alen.


I can't believe my eyes someone is praising that tactic and that kind of football mentality. This match alone took 10 years of my life :disagree:
If not more than 10....
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
ZAF, just read your other post, I think we have almost the same points...

I've read a lot in here...but most of you aren't really talking football but mixing unnecessary stuff together.


Here is why I think Italy is out, from football tactic point of view.


The main reason Italy are out is simply because of Donadoni and no two can argue on that.

People were criticizing Di Natale for the Holland game then Del Piero for the Romania game and a bit of Cassano in the France game. But If we look at it and we analyze it you'll simply figure out that the SYSTEM that the Azzurri played in this competition is useless.

How on earth, just how on earth can someone play the same formation system over and over when it's obvious it's not the right one. The 4-3-3 Donadoni was using has to be the worst formation system I've seen since i've followed and played football.

-Camoranesi.....playing out of his normal position
-Del Piero.....playing out of his normal position
-Toni....playing up-front alone and only one ST behind him...and each time it's diff player.
-Perrotta playing behind Toni and one of Cassano/Del Piero/Di Natale

I seriously don't know and I mean it, I can't understand how someone who has played football on the highest level and is chosen to coach the Italian NT is afraid to play both Del Piero and Cassano together behind Toni, but insist on playing Perrotta who is anything but creative player who is anything but offensive player who is anything but a good player for that position???? If anyone can answer me that, it would be really nice.

What I've learned from Lippi over all these years, is that you don't apply/play your formation if it doesn't suit your best players.

Donadoni wanted to play the 4-3-3 formation no matter what...even if that required to play Ambrosini upfront he'll still go with it as long as it's 4-3-3.

People and I blamed Toni a lot and called him overrated for not scoring, we could be right, but we were a bit harsh on him considering that he was playing alone upfront. We've seen only 15min of Cassano and Del Piero playing together against Holland, and I must say those were the only 15min I enjoyed in this tournament.

I can understand If Donadoni isn't as smart as Lippi in football nor he'll ever be in 200years time but I can't understand the reason for not playing both of these players.


As for today's game...the Spaniards deserved this win....they were the better side... it felt really sad and it broke my heart to see players such as Del Piero, Pirlo and Buffon and the likes leaving in such a way.

As ZAF also said in his post, Donadoni has to be the worst coach to ever coach this side....even Trap the one that was called "defensive minded" from press and media had the balls to play Cassano Dp together. This proves what type of coaches Donadoni is.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,795
What I wanted to say is you can play as superior as you want but the goals decide a match.As you see in the Croatia match.
Errrr...aren't there some things so obvious that they're not worth stating?

This is like the coach who's strategy is, "Ok, team. If we score more than the other guys, I guarantee you victory!"
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Btw, I'll pretend I didn't read anything concerning the insults about Camoranesi and Del Piero. But one more insult to any Juventus player and no warning will be shown but something else.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,251
Holy shit!

Where the hell did I say Italy deserved to go through?I'll appreciate it if you show me that post.Thank you,sir.

I'm not that biased to overlook how bad Italy was at the Euros.I know that,but thank you nonetheless for reminding me.

Did Spain play the better football?Yes,they did.Again,where did I say otherwise?I just said that Spain wasn't superior because they weren't able to score.Superior to me means scoring the required goal more than the other team.Superior to you probably means playing better.
You said that you didn't think Spain was SUPERIOR. Are you one of the fans that just looks at the score and doesn't watch the match?

You're just living in some friggin biased world where Italy is always superior and Pippo Inzaghi is everyone's little house pet while Andrea Pirlo walks the street of Milan like Gianni Versace with Gnocchi in his hands while the Azzurri rack up 25 World Cups in one year because Sepp Blatter was lobbied by Italians to make 25 World Cups in each year and only have one team play in them.
:lol:

You're enjoying this, aren't you ? :D
I'm enjoying seeing many Azzurri fans suffer, yes. But I don't like seeing our Juventini on the team suffer and true fans suffer because of expectations.

But one word is ironically ringing through my mind today. Italy was screwed over by one call and they still progressed, but today they got all the calls and still lost.

The word I'm thinking about is Karma.
 

Marceℓℓo

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2007
7,242
Errrr...aren't there some things so obvious that they're not worth stating?

This is like the coach who's strategy is, "Ok, team. If we score more than the other guys, I guarantee you victory!"
Sure it's obvious,but some guys keep on saying how superior Spain was.And my response was basically "you don't win matches by being superior but by scoring more goals".
Then is there a science to saving them?
No.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,251
Many players chocked because of the tactics, and the position they played. If the coach tells you to stay behind all the time, and shoot the ball towards Toni when they have it, even if it is in their own side, then not even Maradona could do anything with this team and tactics. If you play with 4 defenders, and 3 or even 4 defensive midfielders, and one striker front and alone, who could do anything?

They played it for penalties, like Italy is penalty experts, like Buffon is a penalty expert. :disagree:
Zambrotta - Piss Poor.

Aquilani - Same position he always plays, he choked.

Panucci - Sucked.

Perrotta - Below par performances for him, which is saying something. :shifty:

De Rossi - Choked.

Di Natale - Crap, overrated player.

Toni - Choked

And they all played their usual positions. So this right here is NOT Donadoni's fault.

Sure, his tactics were shit, but many Italians choked.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,251
Sure it's obvious,but some guys keep on saying how superior Spain was.And my response was basically "you don't win matches by being superior but by scoring more goals".


No.
Great job promoting crap football then, because that's all you're doing.

Fuck it, I mean, lets do it live. Why don't we just judge performances on who played worse and give them the upperhand, because that's what we're doing here.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Actually Del Piero should have enter for Aquilani before the supplementary time... Oh, Donadoni...
Reading your post... I remember Lippi playing with 4 attackers against Germany in the semi's in the extra-time. If I remember well, it was Gila, Totti, Del Piero, Toni I think.

The man was afraid to play Del Piero Cassano together, lol. He even subs Di Natale with Cassano.
 

Joaco

the cronopio
Dec 11, 2005
5,213
Oh, come on, Andy, Panucci wasn't that bad... at least this match he wasn't.

Reading your post... I remember Lippi playing with 4 attackers against Germany in the semi's in the extra-time. If I remember well, it was Gila, Totti, Del Piero, Toni I think.

The man was afraid to play Del Piero Cassano together, lol. He even subs Di Natale with Cassano.
Exactly! I was watching the match with my girlfriend and I told her "Donadoni should put Del Piero in and probably we can repeat what we did against Germany at WC"
But, wtf, that was Lippi...
 
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