Nicolò Rovella (8 Viewers)

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
26,781
38 mil for a young and Italian DM?????
Players for this position grow in trees. There is a huge abundance of them, both in talents and in experience players.
He must be extremely promising, he better grow to become the new Pogba!

Its really strange, should he be a creative midfielder, that are considered more valuable, as creative talent is rare and more important for teams. But defensive midfileders?? What exactly does he makes him the world gratest prospect to demand nearly 40mil?
 

The Quazis

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2012
4,037
38 mil for a young and Italian DM?????
Players for this position grow in trees. There is a huge abundance of them, both in talents and in experience players.
He must be extremely promising, he better grow to become the new Pogba!

Its really strange, should he be a creative midfielder, that are considered more valuable, as creative talent is rare and more important for teams. But defensive midfileders?? What exactly does he makes him the world gratest prospect to demand nearly 40mil?
In the very same deal Serie C players, Portanova and Petrelli are valued at 15mln each. That's what makes Rovella worth 38mln.

I believe JayJuve said an important thing. We all assume Rovella wouldn't renew with Genoa which may not be the case. He's so young that he could've easily renewed and then Genoa would ask for 30-40 mln cash like Brescia did with Tonali. In such case they would only laugh at inserting counterparts like Portanova or Petrelli.
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
3,624
In the very same deal Serie C players, Portanova and Petrelli are valued at 15mln each. That's what makes Rovella worth 38mln.

I believe JayJuve said an important thing. We all assume Rovella wouldn't renew with Genoa which may not be the case. He's so young that he could've easily renewed and then Genoa would ask for 30-40 mln cash like Brescia did with Tonali. In such case they would only laugh at inserting counterparts like Portanova or Petrelli.
Exactly. I mean what team pays 28 million for scrubs like portanova and petrelli(never even heard of him), yet juve is selling him for 13 million.
 
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JuveJay

JuveJay

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Mar 6, 2007
64,448
I noticed Agresti giving us shit for "paying €38m" for a player we "could have taken for nothing", criticising Agnelli for hypocrisy after he spoke about financial constraints within football.

That's a lot of presuming. It's suggesting that without the Juve deal in the background Rovella is just going to leave for free. It's suggesting we could collude with the player and his agent to run his contract down and take him for nothing. Sure, we could have done that, but then the relationship with Genoa is gone. As it is we've paid €18m for the player with large sporting bonuses, like a normal transfer. And not only that, it's financial hocus pocus to sell Portanova and Petrelli to Genoa for exactly €18m in exchange. Without us paying the €18m those players are never being sold for those amounts. Think of it as paying zero and swapping players, but the large transfer fees look good on the books because they show tidy plusvalenza for both clubs. Exactly the same for the Tongya-Aké swap, exactly the same for the Monzialo-Lungoyi swap. You simply can't judge these transfer fees individually.

And for now it is only €18m, because if he doesn't play with us we aren't going to trigger any sporting bonuses. If he does play regularly with us to trigger them then he'll be worth that extra €20m almost by default.
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
3,624
I noticed Agresti giving us shit for "paying €38m" for a player we "could have taken for nothing", criticising Agnelli for hypocrisy after he spoke about financial constraints within football.

That's a lot of presuming. It's suggesting that without the Juve deal in the background Rovella is just going to leave for free. It's suggesting we could collude with the player and his agent to run his contract down and take him for nothing. Sure, we could have done that, but then the relationship with Genoa is gone. As it is we've paid €18m for the player with large sporting bonuses, like a normal transfer. And not only that, it's financial hocus pocus to sell Portanova and Petrelli to Genoa for exactly €18m in exchange. Without us paying the €18m those players are never being sold for those amounts. Think of it as paying zero and swapping players, but the large transfer fees look good on the books because they show tidy plusvalenza for both clubs. Exactly the same for the Tongya-Aké swap, exactly the same for the Monzialo-Lungoyi swap. You simply can't judge these transfer fees individually.

And for now it is only €18m, because if he doesn't play with us we aren't going to trigger any sporting bonuses. If he does play regularly with us to trigger them then he'll be worth that extra €20m almost by default.
Aren't portanova and petrelli potentially 28 million, if they trigger the bonuses?
Portanova 10(+5) and Petrelli 8(+5.3)
 
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JuveJay

JuveJay

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Mar 6, 2007
64,448
Aren't portanova and petrelli potentially 28 million, if they trigger the bonuses?
Portanova 10(+5) and Petrelli 8(+5.3)
Yeah but for argument's sake I was just including the initial fees. I'd imagine that if the bonuses are things like 25 or 50 appearances plus Genoa staying up/Juve making CL then there is slightly more chance of the Genoa ones being triggered, and sooner. As we don't know what the bonuses are it's hard to tell who has value. €20m for Juve suggests multiple bonuses where at least 50% will be favourable, others like winning the scudetto or CL, international caps more of a challenge.
 

Juve_newbie

Junior Member
Jan 11, 2017
250
Seeing this kind of deal, I remember around 1998-2002, many big deals between Fiorentina, Lazio, Parma & Inter were exactly like that, trade plus players with inflated value. And it nearly bankrupted both Fiorentina, Lazio & Parma. Inter only survived because of Moratti.
 

Gigiventus

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,719
Looked at the original text in Italian from Juve's website since I was confused by that translation.

It does say that:
Rovella 18 + 20
Portanova 10 + 5
Petrelli 8 + 5

38 vs 28

If bonuses are similarly easy/difficult to achieve its basically 10m + our players.

It's all inflated.
 

tosh_rose

Senior Member
Aug 21, 2010
1,282
Don’t mind the initial price as it’s a straight swap but I hate the length of the loan and the length of his contract. As for the bonus I hope they are close to impossible to achieve and that he achieves them.
So strange that people with your logic and understanding are very rare to find these days... Cheers for that!

Yes, you're exactly right, Juve is signing a Rovella for a Portanova + a Petrelli, Juve is trading two players and is getting one in return, Juve is giving 18 for one player and is receiving 10+8 (18 total) for two players, Juve is getting a pineapple and is giving away two apples in return, mommy wants new shoes but doesn't want to spend from her salary or savings so she sells two pairs of shoes she doesn't want and need and with the money she gets she buys the new shoes, etc, etc... So many examples can be given here...

These deals cannot be easier for the public to understand, yet the majority of them are insisting on how amateurish and idiotic this Juve club is for signing a youngster with 6 months left in his contract for 38 million euros...

In reality the club got a youngster with good potential for 0 euros and will only pay his bonuses and I hope the player achieves everything in the contract and the club pays all of that 20 mil, any personal related bonus and team related bonus - winning every title, every cup and super cup there is... Wish him luck and good health, also kudos to the transfer chiefs for another job well done...
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
26,781
Yeah but with 40 mil we could land a real player...
The most bizarre thing is that his agency is not one of the usual suspects that are bossing us around.
I would be willing to give him the benefit of a doubt for that. As usually these deals happen when we need to pay tribute to certain player agencies. But i ve seen the lad of our initial interest and he seems quite Mediocre, if not completely skill-less.
I guess the only criteria, as before was U21 appearances, that was always enough for juve to burn cash and most of the times we regret them...
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
3,624
Yeah but with 40 mil we could land a real player...
The most bizarre thing is that his agency is not one of the usual suspects that are bossing us around.
I would be willing to give him the benefit of a doubt for that. As usually these deals happen when we need to pay tribute to certain player agencies. But i ve seen the lad of our initial interest and he seems quite Mediocre, if not completely skill-less.
I guess the only criteria, as before was U21 appearances, that was always enough for juve to burn cash and most of the times we regret them...
You have to understand that this deal doesn't get made without the sales of portanova and petrelli (who can cost 28 million).
It's not like juve has a budget of 38 mil. lying around and they decide to spend it on rovella .
We need to increase our revenue for this year(the 28 million form sales), probably to try and not be so far in red at the end of the fiscal year, while incurring a bigger amortization fee for future years.
@s4tch can correct me on this.
 
Jun 16, 2020
2,308
You have to understand that this deal doesn't get made without the sales of portanova and petrelli (who can cost 28 million).
It's not like juve has a budget of 38 mil. lying around and they decide to spend it on rovella .
We need to increase our revenue for this year(the 28 million form sales), probably to try and not be so far in red at the end of the fiscal year, while incurring a bigger amortization fee for future years.
@s4tch can correct me on this.
I love how some here have a doctorate in plusvalenza after following our finances for a few years

Plusvalenza isn’t a way of doing business, it’s a way of living life.
 
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JuveJay

JuveJay

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Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
64,448
Seeing this kind of deal, I remember around 1998-2002, many big deals between Fiorentina, Lazio, Parma & Inter were exactly like that, trade plus players with inflated value. And it nearly bankrupted both Fiorentina, Lazio & Parma. Inter only survived because of Moratti.
You're right on those deals but both Lazio and Parma declined because of financial scandals at Cirio and Parmalat respectively.
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
10,209
I really don't buy the argument that we couldn't pick him up on a bosman. I find it hard to believe that just about any player from a provisional side in Italy would turn down a move to one of the top sides to stay at their current club, let alone the biggest club and one that would definitely be offering a far higher salary than would be on offer, plus our midfield issues. He agreed to join us when we paid money so why wouldn't he on a free, plus he'd likely get a nice signing bonus too.

It would take a hardcore Genoa fan to want to turn down the move just so their club could get more money, risking the move in the first place. I just don't see a player taking that gamble just to stay at their club for an extra 18 months.

You can say we did it to maintain a relationship but Genoa get plenty in return from us and benefitted with cheap loans for guys like Perin who they have basically signed for rolling loans. Yes, Portanova and Petrelli cancel out the initial fee but it is not as though they had no value. Plus the add ons outweigh this. If we are having to pay up to 10 to 20m just to maintain a relationship then you've got to question if it is worth it.

It looks like another example of creative accounting for FFP and I can see the argument. But we can't keep kicking things down the road eventually we'll catch up with these in terms of cash flow and amortisation.
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
3,624
I really don't buy the argument that we couldn't pick him up on a bosman. I find it hard to believe that just about any player from a provisional side in Italy would turn down a move to one of the top sides to stay at their current club, let alone the biggest club and one that would definitely be offering a far higher salary than would be on offer, plus our midfield issues. He agreed to join us when we paid money so why wouldn't he on a free, plus he'd likely get a nice signing bonus too.

It would take a hardcore Genoa fan to want to turn down the move just so their club could get more money, risking the move in the first place. I just don't see a player taking that gamble just to stay at their club for an extra 18 months.

You can say we did it to maintain a relationship but Genoa get plenty in return from us and benefitted with cheap loans for guys like Perin who they have basically signed for rolling loans. Yes, Portanova and Petrelli cancel out the initial fee but it is not as though they had no value. Plus the add ons outweigh this. If we are having to pay up to 10 to 20m just to maintain a relationship then you've got to question if it is worth it.

It looks like another example of creative accounting for FFP and I can see the argument. But we can't keep kicking things down the road eventually we'll catch up with these in terms of cash flow and amortisation.
Well the player could have given his word to the owner that he will sign a new contract if he doesn't receive any offers, for example.

It would be a really dick move to move on a free and practically spit in the face of those that helped you made it.

You think Genoa would still have played him if they knew that he isn't going to renew?
I think they would probably punish him a la Rabiot or send him to the reserves, primavera .
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
10,209
Well the player could have given his word to the owner that he will sign a new contract if he doesn't receive any offers, for example.

It would be a really dick move to move on a free and practically spit in the face of those that helped you made it.

You think Genoa would still have played him if they knew that he isn't going to renew?
I think they would probably punish him a la Rabiot or send him to the reserves, primavera .
I don't think it is a dick move, he would be well within his rights and is something players do in every league. You could argue that Genoa should have had the faith in him to offer him a longer deal.

At worst he'd have 6 months in the reserves but very few clubs treat their players like PSG did to Rabiot. Lots of players sign for other teams on precontracts and continue to play for the rest of the season. I'd say it is rare to be frozen out.
 

DutchJuventino

Senior Member
Apr 9, 2015
3,400
I saw almost all of his games, this guy is covering sooo freaking much meters a match. He is very hungry and active on the pitch, but on a technical level he is a bit of a dissapointment. I saw nothing special in him, just a really hard worker nothing more.
 

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