wow...I'm impressed 
int:
what league doesn't claim to be the best ?? (excluding the MLS, of course !)
int: what league doesn't claim to be the best ?? (excluding the MLS, of course !)
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Nick Against the World (39 Viewers)
- Thread starter IncuboRossonero
- Start date
I'm going for a beer, I will behave.
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GROW UP! WHO CARES!? Why does that matter when you are watching your nation hoping they qualify so you'll get a fucking few half days off in the summer?
Get a loud speaker around wembley "BE CAREFUL EVERYONE NOT TO CHEER TO LOUD OR THINK WE ARE TOO GOOD IN CASE WE OFFEND SOME ITALIANS OR SOMETHING. WE CANT BE TOO PATRIOTIC OR ARROGANT BECAUSE STATISTICALLY ITALY ARE BETTER. THANKYOU".
You people are nuts.
Get a loud speaker around wembley "BE CAREFUL EVERYONE NOT TO CHEER TO LOUD OR THINK WE ARE TOO GOOD IN CASE WE OFFEND SOME ITALIANS OR SOMETHING. WE CANT BE TOO PATRIOTIC OR ARROGANT BECAUSE STATISTICALLY ITALY ARE BETTER. THANKYOU".
You people are nuts.
He said Italian press claim to be the best, and I'm trying to prove to him that they have all the right to claim they're the best when they have the best NT and the best Clubs in europe.
I never claimed anything about the coach nor the English NT.
I watched the England-Croatia game last night, and couldnt believe that England didnt at least get the draw.
Its a shame that they wont be in the Euro's...I almost feel like the quality of the tournament is going to suffer a bit, because England is a better team than Russia
No one has brought this up, but why did they have the game at Wembley, where the state of the pitch was horrid....they just had an NFL game there a few weeks back, and the field was practically destroyed
I'm not using that as an excuse, but it does seem odd
Its a shame that they wont be in the Euro's...I almost feel like the quality of the tournament is going to suffer a bit, because England is a better team than Russia
No one has brought this up, but why did they have the game at Wembley, where the state of the pitch was horrid....they just had an NFL game there a few weeks back, and the field was practically destroyed
I'm not using that as an excuse, but it does seem odd
A bit contradictory since you......
DIDN'T QUALIFY!
REALITY CHECK: I hear that once a day on tv, or once a week at school.
Word...
Whoa.... first of all, one should always be humble, second, he was talking about the Italian society, not the football, I think.
Nether the USL nor the CHINA LEAGUE think they are the best.
Well.....touche, but Lalas is a fucking cocksucker.
...and Jews are better than WOPPERS!!
But the woppers aided in killing the Jews.
DIDN'T QUALIFY!
REALITY CHECK: I hear that once a day on tv, or once a week at school.
Word...
Whoa.... first of all, one should always be humble, second, he was talking about the Italian society, not the football, I think.
Nether the USL nor the CHINA LEAGUE think they are the best.
Well.....touche, but Lalas is a fucking cocksucker.
...and Jews are better than WOPPERS!!
But the woppers aided in killing the Jews.
I never stated that the Italian media doesn't act in a smiliar fashion, but since I have to put up with this English arrogance within my own football channels I watch here, I'm damn sure going to speak out against it. Of course you will not agree with me in anything I state because you're English, that is to be expected. But while I do not enjoy your brand of football, I do have enough knowledge about the game to observe why it doesn't seem to work tactically. I think that is a given. Of course every single league will want to promote their league; every publication from the Times to La Gazzetta do it, sometimes unconsciously. That's also a given. But with such high status, such plaudits for a league, comes little international glory. I mean come on, you do the math here.
Honestly, did you even read what I had to say? Can I ever have a serious discussion with you without you labeling me a retard?
I'm sorry, but it is the truth. It's always the same story with you lot... first it was Kevin Keegan, then it was Sven, now it's McClaren shouldering all the blame. With the blame game being placed solely on the managers, now you will be facing the problem of finding a manager who actually wants to coach England. But again, your media and fans are the cause of that.
You don't have to tell me any of that. I know fully well the implications such a failure has on your economy and what this sport means to the English. :smile:
I hear every single one of those statements, stated by Englishmen, all the time in this country. All the fucking time. But I also hear such things on Sky Sports News, all the fucking time. And please don't say you never hear such statements of superiority on Sky... I have the nonsensical Kenny Samson quote and others to prove you wrong. But it's really the fans I have heard on the program that state the Premiership is the best league in the world, or English football is the best football in the world, etc.
And this sort of thing does indeed exist. If it didn't exist, I wouldn't perpetually make a point out of it, because I'm not that crazy.
No matter what race or nationality, there will be always be a bunch that degrades their own society.
This isn't about us vs. them, as who is "us" anyway? I'm an American real football fan discussing topics I have grown up with. I do not hate England; I actually love many aspects about the English culture. But what I do not take kindly to are English football pundits on the football channels I watch polluting the American soccer culture with biased marketing and one-liners, something that IS going on not only in my country, but also especially in Asia.
I haven't been to an English pub indeed, but I have spoken with several Englishmen without the help of a football forum. Most have been pleasant people, but some might have surprised you with what they say about English football. However, I do know this isn't a representation of every single English citizen.
I'm not sure what this is all about, but I know the English do not hate me. I don't hate the English either. Hopefully you are aware of that.
Look, I'm not out to get the English or their football. I'm just seriously tired of hearing the same old blame game against individuals in English football, the same old story about how English football is the best, and the arrogance I witness through American football media by means of English football "experts." Perhaps I've got your problems all wrong, but this is my personal take on the state of your football. It's coming from a person who has no stake in the Euros, no stake in any sides except for Juventus and my own national team, and an unbiased football observer in the United States.
Honestly, did you even read what I had to say? Can I ever have a serious discussion with you without you labeling me a retard?
I'm sorry, but it is the truth. It's always the same story with you lot... first it was Kevin Keegan, then it was Sven, now it's McClaren shouldering all the blame. With the blame game being placed solely on the managers, now you will be facing the problem of finding a manager who actually wants to coach England. But again, your media and fans are the cause of that.
You don't have to tell me any of that. I know fully well the implications such a failure has on your economy and what this sport means to the English. :smile:
I hear every single one of those statements, stated by Englishmen, all the time in this country. All the fucking time. But I also hear such things on Sky Sports News, all the fucking time. And please don't say you never hear such statements of superiority on Sky... I have the nonsensical Kenny Samson quote and others to prove you wrong. But it's really the fans I have heard on the program that state the Premiership is the best league in the world, or English football is the best football in the world, etc.
And this sort of thing does indeed exist. If it didn't exist, I wouldn't perpetually make a point out of it, because I'm not that crazy.
No matter what race or nationality, there will be always be a bunch that degrades their own society.
This isn't about us vs. them, as who is "us" anyway? I'm an American real football fan discussing topics I have grown up with. I do not hate England; I actually love many aspects about the English culture. But what I do not take kindly to are English football pundits on the football channels I watch polluting the American soccer culture with biased marketing and one-liners, something that IS going on not only in my country, but also especially in Asia.
I haven't been to an English pub indeed, but I have spoken with several Englishmen without the help of a football forum. Most have been pleasant people, but some might have surprised you with what they say about English football. However, I do know this isn't a representation of every single English citizen.
I'm not sure what this is all about, but I know the English do not hate me. I don't hate the English either. Hopefully you are aware of that.
Look, I'm not out to get the English or their football. I'm just seriously tired of hearing the same old blame game against individuals in English football, the same old story about how English football is the best, and the arrogance I witness through American football media by means of English football "experts." Perhaps I've got your problems all wrong, but this is my personal take on the state of your football. It's coming from a person who has no stake in the Euros, no stake in any sides except for Juventus and my own national team, and an unbiased football observer in the United States.
I'm the 'mental' one. Alright. I guess the manager of Croatia is also 'mental.'
England 'wilted under pressure'
Croatia coach Slaven Bilic says England's players wilted under the expectations of the nation's fans and the spotlight created by the media.
"We didn't feel that kind of negative pressure," said Bilic.
"It's a bit hard, although they are world-class players and should cope with it, it is hard to cope with that kind of negative pressure.
"Wake up. You didn't lose the game because of the tactics. I admire your team but we're simply a better team."
Bilic's team had already qualified for Euro 2008 before Wednesday night's match at rain-lashed Wembley.
But they were determined to put England out of the tournament and displayed a cohesion that the home side sorely lacked.
Bilic, a former West Ham player, went on: "I read in your papers that no Croatian would start in the England team - that's ridiculous, wake up.
"There is no non-Englishman who loves your guys more than I do but there are good players in small countries as well.
"Nothing is wrong with English football but you have to realise that this was by far the most difficult group.
"No other group had such quality in the fourth and fifth teams as Israel and Macedonia.
"It was a great match which we fully deserved to win.
"We showed great individual quality, great team play and great character.
"It's hard to win here anyway but especially after they equalised."
England had not conceded a goal in the five previous home matches during the qualifying campaign.
But Croatia put three past a hapless defence, with goalkeeper Scott Carson's horrendous error prompting the floodgates to open eight minutes into the match.
Bilic said: "We would have been happy with a draw but you can't play for it.
"We tried to be as offensive as we could and to finish our attacks with five or six players.
"We can do that because we have players with great skill but also good lungs who can run all day."
England 'wilted under pressure'
Croatia coach Slaven Bilic says England's players wilted under the expectations of the nation's fans and the spotlight created by the media.
"We didn't feel that kind of negative pressure," said Bilic.
"It's a bit hard, although they are world-class players and should cope with it, it is hard to cope with that kind of negative pressure.
"Wake up. You didn't lose the game because of the tactics. I admire your team but we're simply a better team."
Bilic's team had already qualified for Euro 2008 before Wednesday night's match at rain-lashed Wembley.
But they were determined to put England out of the tournament and displayed a cohesion that the home side sorely lacked.
Bilic, a former West Ham player, went on: "I read in your papers that no Croatian would start in the England team - that's ridiculous, wake up.
"There is no non-Englishman who loves your guys more than I do but there are good players in small countries as well.
"Nothing is wrong with English football but you have to realise that this was by far the most difficult group.
"No other group had such quality in the fourth and fifth teams as Israel and Macedonia.
"It was a great match which we fully deserved to win.
"We showed great individual quality, great team play and great character.
"It's hard to win here anyway but especially after they equalised."
England had not conceded a goal in the five previous home matches during the qualifying campaign.
But Croatia put three past a hapless defence, with goalkeeper Scott Carson's horrendous error prompting the floodgates to open eight minutes into the match.
Bilic said: "We would have been happy with a draw but you can't play for it.
"We tried to be as offensive as we could and to finish our attacks with five or six players.
"We can do that because we have players with great skill but also good lungs who can run all day."
I spend a bit of time in Italy and regularly listen to their native broadcasts. A little of that is true of Portugal, where you get both the media spew for the Portuguese and their Brazilian brothers (it's a weird cultural thing, a massive brotherhood of sorts, that's difficult to compare in other world political contexts).
And your mileage may vary. And I don't see some sort of marketing conspiracy. But I have no doubt in my mind and experience that England journalists and broadcasters beat the pants off their Italian, Portuguese, and Brazilian counterparts for being the worlds biggest blowhards most disconnected with reality. And while I may not live anywhere near England, across the pond and almost the next pond over, I may as well -- because the stench of arrogance reeks all the way here to the Pacific.
No other country comes close, really. It's like the Saturday Night Live sketch that lampoons Chicago Bears fans (myself being one of them), e.g.: "OK, how about the 1973 Dolphins versus Mike Ditka's left toe -- who would win? Da Bears!!"
Not that the Italian journalists and fans, or those in Brazil, are by any means modest or most humble. But they do make an attempt at humility now and then. No one would be so idiotic to say something like, "The coaching job for the Brazilian NT is the best job in the world" like they mean it. And at least with Brazil's NT, unlike England's, they'd actually have a point.
Ironically, I would say those things. And if someone said those things, I would be hard pressed to refute it right now. The difference is practically denying the rest of the football world exists beyond the English channel. For a nation that was one of the world's greatest historical examples of cosmopolitan and international awareness, when it comes to football it's absurdly provincial.
I can't speak to all English. But your diplomatic representatives to the rest of the footballing world inspire some of the strongest hate, spite, and schedenfreud the world over. As a footballing nation, England exudes the grace, class, and humility of the George W Bush administration.
If you don't believe that, you're living a convenient lie. The empirical evidence among fan reactions is everywhere. England's ambassadors of the sport -- sports journalists, media exports, and the typical fan in the media -- are a miserable failure. And I'm not including the roving fans who were "nationally profiled", inspired special trainings of the locals for handling, and often banned from Korean and Japanese establishments during WC2002.
Is it any wonder that people are now gleefully snickering that England should get to host WC2018 because it may be the only way they could qualify?
I'll have to disagree with you Andy. I am not going out on a limb here by stating, from my own experience in England, Italy, and around the world and watching the representation of football nationalism and national leagues, England has no real peer in the arrogance (let alone misplaced arrogance) category.
You're shitting yourself if you think England is no worse than any other nation in this regard.
And your mileage may vary. And I don't see some sort of marketing conspiracy. But I have no doubt in my mind and experience that England journalists and broadcasters beat the pants off their Italian, Portuguese, and Brazilian counterparts for being the worlds biggest blowhards most disconnected with reality. And while I may not live anywhere near England, across the pond and almost the next pond over, I may as well -- because the stench of arrogance reeks all the way here to the Pacific.
No other country comes close, really. It's like the Saturday Night Live sketch that lampoons Chicago Bears fans (myself being one of them), e.g.: "OK, how about the 1973 Dolphins versus Mike Ditka's left toe -- who would win? Da Bears!!"
Not that the Italian journalists and fans, or those in Brazil, are by any means modest or most humble. But they do make an attempt at humility now and then. No one would be so idiotic to say something like, "The coaching job for the Brazilian NT is the best job in the world" like they mean it. And at least with Brazil's NT, unlike England's, they'd actually have a point.
Ironically, I would say those things. And if someone said those things, I would be hard pressed to refute it right now. The difference is practically denying the rest of the football world exists beyond the English channel. For a nation that was one of the world's greatest historical examples of cosmopolitan and international awareness, when it comes to football it's absurdly provincial.
I can't speak to all English. But your diplomatic representatives to the rest of the footballing world inspire some of the strongest hate, spite, and schedenfreud the world over. As a footballing nation, England exudes the grace, class, and humility of the George W Bush administration.
If you don't believe that, you're living a convenient lie. The empirical evidence among fan reactions is everywhere. England's ambassadors of the sport -- sports journalists, media exports, and the typical fan in the media -- are a miserable failure. And I'm not including the roving fans who were "nationally profiled", inspired special trainings of the locals for handling, and often banned from Korean and Japanese establishments during WC2002.
Is it any wonder that people are now gleefully snickering that England should get to host WC2018 because it may be the only way they could qualify?
I'll have to disagree with you Andy. I am not going out on a limb here by stating, from my own experience in England, Italy, and around the world and watching the representation of football nationalism and national leagues, England has no real peer in the arrogance (let alone misplaced arrogance) category.
You're shitting yourself if you think England is no worse than any other nation in this regard.
Good post, Greg. I agree with most of it.
But in regards to a marketing conspiracy, that's really the wrong words for it. Marketing and conspiracy are sort of synonyms as they both involve lies. The whole purpose of marketing is to sell some sort of product, and with that comes doing anything possible to overrate the product and squeeze as much money out of it as possible. Marketing is not a conspiracy because we know it's happening.
But in regards to a marketing conspiracy, that's really the wrong words for it. Marketing and conspiracy are sort of synonyms as they both involve lies. The whole purpose of marketing is to sell some sort of product, and with that comes doing anything possible to overrate the product and squeeze as much money out of it as possible. Marketing is not a conspiracy because we know it's happening.
I do have questions about the conspiracy part. Maybe this is the faux Italian in me that I normally deny exists, but I find it far too convenient that the American media have been pipelining ever more English football propaganda and propagandists at the same time we're seeing American ownership stakes in EPL clubs on a dramatic rise.
Some cynical part of me believes there are commercially interested forces out there who know that just enough of the American audience for the sport is ignorant and pliable enough to make itself profitable. You take 100 lobotomized chimpanzees who terminally masturbate all day and pump nothing but Manchester United matches at them 24x7, calling it "soccer", and my guess is 60 of them will eventually become ManU fans.
Some cynical part of me believes there are commercially interested forces out there who know that just enough of the American audience for the sport is ignorant and pliable enough to make itself profitable. You take 100 lobotomized chimpanzees who terminally masturbate all day and pump nothing but Manchester United matches at them 24x7, calling it "soccer", and my guess is 60 of them will eventually become ManU fans.
Burke, about our Lesotho discussion, from Wikipedia it states:
Lesotho, officially the Kingdom of Lesotho, is a land-locked country, entirely surrounded by the Republic of South Africa. Formerly Basutoland, it is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. The name Lesotho roughly translates into "the land of the people who speak Sesotho."
Lesotho, officially the Kingdom of Lesotho, is a land-locked country, entirely surrounded by the Republic of South Africa. Formerly Basutoland, it is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. The name Lesotho roughly translates into "the land of the people who speak Sesotho."
