Nick Against the World (42 Viewers)

IlDivinCodino

f**king hot prospect
Mar 5, 2006
1,191
IncuboRossonero said:
SHOW ME PROOF BIATCH

unlike YOU BUNCH we have no phone calls stating we lock up officials or select officials ..if you were actually aware of what went on we have ONE PHONE CALL that lasts 90 seconds in which a part time Milan employee tells Galliani he yelled at an official because he made bad calls in a game Milan lost..
yep thats it.

Further more...we won the title in 2004

furthre more it BerLUSCONI no Belusconi...and he has not been at the helm since 1994 ..only to return this past May.

KNOW YOUR FACTS
can you chill? i didn't mean what i said in an offensive way........
i know it was Berlusconi and the 2004 thingy........

in certain ways, Berlusconi did more or less affected the verdict or it might be just what i presume so dont mind me
and i was just messing with you, so dont take it seriously
and no i wasnt aware of what went on about the phone call and your club's evidence........
i was screwed with exams and words on Juve........

so chill........:pint:
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,335
IncuboRossonero said:
SHOW ME PROOF BIATCH

unlike YOU BUNCH we have no phone calls stating we lock up officials or select officials ..if you were actually aware of what went on we have ONE PHONE CALL that lasts 90 seconds in which a part time Milan employee tells Galliani he yelled at an official because he made bad calls in a game Milan lost..
yep thats it.

Further more...we won the title in 2004

furthre more it BerLUSCONI no Belusconi...and he has not been at the helm since 1994 ..only to return this past May.

KNOW YOUR FACTS
Oh come on Nick. Like Berlusconi didn't rule Milan in the meantime. I'm sure he had nothing to do with the media either. And those fraud scandals must be fictional as well. Just as much as everyone always knew Moggi was a complete crook, we are all too aware of Berlusconi's lesser deeds.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
IncuboRossonero said:
Kidding RIGHT??

Further more, Juve has not WON a CLEAN scudetto since 2002/2003 ace and last time I checked Don Luciano Moggi was still at the helm..by my calculations your last clean scudetto was in the early 80's
Lets put the "Clean" word somewhere out...Because so far there's nothing called "Clean" from Juventus to Lecce.

You and all Interista and everyone-else know that 04/05 and 05/06 Scud that were won by us, were deserved, Nick...Whether we fixed some games or not, we deserved these Scud's more than Facchetti's Inter, we finished the league having 15point diff between us and Inter. Officially the Cups are between Moratti's hands..But we all saw Del Piero lifting that little sweety thing.

...And the diff between Juve and Milan is that we were better cheaters than Milan.
 

ThePLaya

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2005
2,698
Azzurri7 said:
...And the diff between Juve and Milan is that we were better cheaters than Milan.

True............

And the Diff too that they were more powerful than us, if our president was a Prime Minister and aslo bald we wouldn't be in seria B 100 % !!!!!!
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
Enron said:
Nothing is for sure yet, it’s only the A sample that failed, if the B sample fails, then he is a doper. If not, it could just be coincidence. He had unusual levels of testosterone after the stage he won. Also, there will probably be a counter analysis done to be sure no tampering took place.
Whilst you are right that nothing can be sure till we get the 'b’ result (coming on Saturday).
The evidence is already quite substantial and in light of landis’ and Kay’s downright lies on Larry king this week there is little reason not to be more and more suspicious of Floyd.
His T-E ratio was 11-1 which although not massively high for a steroid pumping weightlifter is very high for a cyclist (clean or dirty) and very unlikely to be a naturally occurring level.
Landis and Kay both stated this week that Floyd had naturally high T levels… Yet this had never been recorded, either in previous tests or more importantly and most damningly – It was not noted in his health passport… I’m sorry but not one single rider would fail to record a natural anomaly in their passport and thus have a UCI approval to ride… It jus doesn’t happen and especially if as he says he’s been like it his entire career… Yet his passport is complete with authorization for minor medications he uses for his degenerate hip condition and even the mild (unlikely to be enough to even come close to fail a test) cortisone based medication for his recent thyroid condition – plus several other minor allowances. So how does he explain having a highly detailed passport, not missing anything except for the biggest of them all – supposedly lifelong naturally high T levels… get real!!
But then even if you believe his story of a naturally high T level, How do you explain the fact that the IRMS test carried out on his sample showed the excessive Testosterone to be exogenous.. Oh dear Floyd… Your own argument blown out of the water.
Then of course we have to look at the team Floyd rides for… Phonak have had 9 people (inc one Mr. Tyler Hamilton) banned for doping offenses in the last 2 years.. They have constantly been accused of having a systematic doping program, they have been linked too many scandals and well known questionable doctors… Hmmm hard to believe much that comes from the mouth of someone associated with Phonak.
But, you never know… It may have been a false positive and his B may come back clean.. Highly unlikely what with the IRMS test as well as the t-e ratio being positive... but it’s possible.
In truth nothing is certain yet and as they always do when Americans do well in the Tour, the European media is jumping all over it, as they did with Armstrong and LeMond.
At this point, and excuse me for this… I have to ask – Were you actually alive (or old enough to see) when Greg was at his peak or even during his comeback years? and I then have to ask, were you in Europe at the time, cause the American coverage of cycling at that time was almost non-existent and the written coverage was mainly built on 2nd hand bullshit…
The fact is Greg was, always has been and always will be loved in Europe… He is a legend who truly earned the respect and friendship of the world.
Yes he had his up’s and downs with the European press, as everyone does, but overall he was loved and always given the utmost respect..
The French were obviously more in favour of the badger, but that’s natural and they weren’t anti – Greg anyway. They praised him continuously for his loyalty to hinault in 84, obviously some were turned against him for a while in 85.. But that was because he broke the cardinal rule of cycling, not because they were against him and they soon back in his corner in 86.
In 89.. He increased his popularity to stratospheric heights with his stunning return against all odds from his shooting accident and his exploits on the bike, especially that famous day of Greg’s stomach problems.
Then of course if the press were so against Greg… why was it that the majority of the French media supported Greg in 89 even though Fignon was the race favorite and of course… French?
Why was it that during the tour in 89, whilst fignon carried the Yellow jersey that the French imposed a nationwide press block on Fignon, no pics , interviews, he wasn’t even mentioned… Yet LeMond was front page every day, the center of attention…
Why?
As for Armstrong he wasn’t attacked because he was American or because he may or may not have doped… But simply cause he was an arrogant arsehole who made no effort whatsoever to fit in the cycling world or the country he was living in… The fact he refused for most of his career to do interviews in the language of the sport (French)… or for that matter, till very late on, to even learn said language… When you look that the average pro cyclist in Europe speaks 3 languages fluently (with the likes of voight speaking 8) , yet he couldn’t be bothered to learn jus one extra… the sports language and that of his adopted home country…
Lance is disliked for his character and attitude, not where he comes from.
As for the continuous doping allegations if you look closely the majority and most damning of them come from his own associates, ex team mates, soignuers, team staff, supposed friends the American federation etc etc - look into it
Landis has drawn mixed reactions over the course of his career, from rave reviews after morzine a few years ago, to lows for his non winner mentality he continually expresses in interviews and his refusal to interview in French… To highs again for his exploits (prior to the positive test) in this year’s tour and a genuine fascination with his mennonite upbringing…

It is difficult to believe that an American would dope because of all the obstacles American cyclists face to make it to the top levels of the sport.
Interesting… so explain the likes of Hamilton… the 40 odd other American cyclists currently serving drugs bans, that one of the largest hauls of illegal drugs in the sport has been American based… That the current center of attention, Operation Puerto has now been traced to its origins in California… etc etc etc
As for the obstacles facing American cyclists compared to others that is simply untrue… They have it no harder than the numerous Australians and especially eastern Europeans in the peloton… Not to mention that the Americans have one of if not the best youth and amateur set ups in the sport today.
I disagree, I think many cyclists have doped and many have been caught, but there are also many who haven't doped.
That’s the first thing you’ve said on the subject that I 100% agree with.
These dumb cunts who say all cyclists dope and how dirty the sport is are uneducated pricks who need to do some fucking research.
The fact is no other sport comes close to the level of dope testing in cycling, whether that be by sheer number of tests or how in depth the testing procedure is.
Its normal that if one sport tests thoroughly and another doesn’t that the former will find more positives, that in no way implies the sport to be less clean, jus more active.
If cycling is doing nothing about the problem, how come they are one of only 2 sports associations that do blood testing.. Why do they do more tests (in and out of completion) than any other sport, why are the majority of the latest tests (the new epo test, HGH test, blood doping tests et etc) all developed either by or on behalf of the UCI… Without cycling these tests wouldn’t even exist.
Why is cycling the only sport to use the latest epo test, the only one that is indisputable, the only one that can detect use at as much as a month after ingestion (the one rarely used in football can only detect up to 4 days), the only one that can truly separate between natural and synthetic products and the only one able to detect the latest versions of the drug.
Why is that at the midpoint of this season your average cyclist has had at least 30 tests whilst the likes of footballers average jus 2 after an entire season?
Why is that blood cleansing is banned and carries a life ban (if found guilty) in cycling whilst many other sports allow it and its participants openly practice this disgraceful act of complete and utter cheating.. a process more beneficial than any amount of EPO ?
If cycling is so dirty… How do you explain that of the 400 or so sportspeople implicated in operation Puerto, only 58 of them are cyclists, the rest being footballers, athletes and tennis players?
How come Fuentes said less than 30 % of his clients at any one time were cyclists…
The same can be said for all the prominent dope doctors… Ferrari, mabuse etc…
The problem with cycling is the way the UCI is run and the image it gives of our sport…
Why for instance, the removal of several key riders from this year’s tour on the back of their names being mentioned in an investigation… Not one of them had been officially accused of anything (and still haven’t) let alone been shown to be guilty.
5 of those riders banned from the tour have now been cleared… But of course there is little publicity of that… What was the UCI thinking? And to do it on the eve of the tour was jus a suicide blow for the sport.
Even if they did decide to ban these riders (which is in itself ridiculous) why do it at the time to get the most possible negative publicity, why not do it when they first had the details some 6 weeks earlier, when minimal damage would have been done…
The reason cycling is perceived to be rotten is due to the utter ineptitude of the UCI, not because it actually is.
How an organization can do so much good and make so many leaps forward in the battle against doping for all sports and yet at the same time be so fucking stupid is totally and utterly bewildering…
Let me say that it is easier today than it was 5 years ago. Because of the LeMonds and the Armstrongs young American cyclists have it easier than the pre-Discovery days. But Americans still must sacrifice more the Europeans to compete in pro cycling.

There are a few obvious reasons that Americans have had difficulty finding their way to the upper echelon of the sport.

The main and probably most influential obstacle is geography. Cycling is very much a European sport and to compete you must physically be in Europe. Until recently there were no big races in the states. So how is a rider to be picked up by a top team if he isn't seen by them. Well one way to go is to start your own team, which is what Americans did with teams like 711, Motorolla and USPS. Most Americans that ride in Europe today got their start on USPS. Before USPS it was very difficult for US riders to be noticed. Today there is only Discovery, but Discovery has funds available to help young riders.

Another thing is time, in order to race the Tour De France or Giro, you have to be in Europe for almost 9 months and for many riders that also means spending huge amounts of time away from your family. Which no doubt is difficult for everyone. For a rider this means much sacrifice, which is why you will almost never see an American rider abandon a race unless he crashes.

There are other obstacles such as popularity (both at home and in Europe), money, and places to train. Most European riders do not face these obstacles, of course it isn't their fault.

By my comment I meant that it just seemed to me that to sacrifice so much to do something you love and then throw it all away was less than logical.

Covered most of that already so won’t bore you anymore…

Lance has never tested positive for doping, EPO or anything. I think you are thinking of testicular cancer, which isn't banned.
Firstly the routinely used rebuff of… 'but he’s never failed a test’ is worthless… Without going into it, answer me this – How many members of the 98 festina team failed a doping test?
Case closed!
But then it’s not true he has never failed a test anyway…
Lance failed a test for cortisone in the tour which he got away with on the strength of an illegal back dated medical certificate… The idea that the man would use a substance in the rut du sud , not get it added to his passport and knowingly go into the tour a few weeks later with that risk over him is ridiculous… No clean rider would do that and no rider full stop, would not have any substances they have to use approved, especially with how the top teams operate now… It jus cant happen.,
He has confirmed failed epo tests from the 99 tour, that cannot be used against him as the B samples were apparently 'spoiled’
Etc etc
Then you have the overwhelming statements of people that would know… The likes of Emma O’Reiley, Frankie Andrue, Greg LeMond, Stephan Swart etc etc the list is endless… All people with nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Why with his innocence did lance threaten the life of Greg LeMond?
Lil Tidbits :
Emma O’Reiley :

· Armstrong told O'Reilly his hematocrit was 41, nine percent below the permitted maximum, and that he was "going to do what the others do" to enhance it.
· In July 1999, Armstrong asked her for makeup to cover bruises on his arm from injections. The authors maintain that legal injections are generally injected in the buttocks.
· In May 1998, Armstrong asked her to dispose of syringes after the Tour of the Netherlands.
· In May 1999, she ferried 24 pills from Johan Bruyneel, the USPS team director, to Armstrong near his home in Nice.
· She provides details of Armstrong's 1999 positive test for steroids, claiming Armstrong told her he had used a steroid around the time of the Route du Sud that he thought would have cleared his system before the Tour. O'Reilly says doctors backdated a prescription for a legal cream containing the steroid, and organizers allowed it, even though the cream wasn't listed on Armstrong's mandatory medical form.
·
Other Bits:

· Armstrong was a medium-notable young rider, among many such others, when in 1996 he was struck with testicular cancer. He became at that time at least the third member of the US Cycling team to be afflicted by severe, life-threatening illnesses. The two other riders in this group, Greg Strock and Erich Keiter, ended up suing USA Cycling claiming that US coaches systematically injected them with performance-enhancing drugs that ultimately ruined their health. Among the coaches alleged to have injected the drugs was Chris Carmichael who is Lance Armstrong's long-time training coach.
· After Armstrong survived cancer and raced again in 1998, he found himself unable to compete at a high level, and ultimately stopped racing altogether after abandoning a Paris-Nice race exhausted and looking very much as one would expect a man who has undergone cancer treatment to look. At that point, Armstrong went into seclusion with coach Chris Carmichael and emerged the next year to win the Tour de France. In the space of a few months, he had gone from collapsing by the side of the road to handily winning one of the top three cycling races in the world. The label that the press, fellow riders, and amazed fans put on this feat was unanimous: "It's a Miracle".
· During the 1999 Tour de France, Armstrong tested positive for cortisone, a banned performance-enhancing drug. The test result, which carried with it an immediate disqualification from the race, was explained away by claiming that it was due to a topical cream legally prescribed to Armstrong. However, Emma O'Reilly, a key staff member of the US Postal team at the time and who was present when the team discussed what to do about the positive tests, has declared to various media outlets that the saving prescription was actually a doctored one fabricated with the express purpose of deceiving Tour officials. O'Reilly, who is a respected member of the cycling community, has nothing to gain with her allegations and has no ax to grind with Armstrong.
· For many years, even as early as 1996, Armstrong's favorite doctor has been Michele Ferrari whom Bicycling magazine calls without hesitation "cycling's doctor most suspected of doping athletes". Dr. Ferrari is currently on trial in Europe for allegedly supplying riders with performance-enhancing drugs. Far from distancing himself from Dr. Ferrari, Armstrong has defended his association with him and gone as far as physically threatening riders who have decided to testify against Dr. Ferrari.
· Starting in 2000, French police investigated Armstrong and the US Postal team for the illegal procurement and distribution of performance-enhancing drugs. The allegations were based on anonymous tips to police that even included syringes supposedly being used in the schema. The charges, of a criminal nature and carrying hefty prison sentences, were dropped for reasons of lack of evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
· Three-time winner of the Tour de France, American Greg Lemond, has labeled Armstrong's comeback from cancer as possibly "the greatest fraud" in the history of the race. To the idea that we have simple witnessed a miracle Lemond is even more blunt: "There are no miracles in cycling". Lemond suffered a shotgun accident in 1987 and had to make a difficult recovery of his own with a long path back to top competition. He clearly knows the limits of the human body at those performing heights and recognizes without reservations that his own return took a full two years and that he was "never the same".
· In 2004, reporters David Walsh and Pierre Ballester published LA Confidential, a well-documented retrospective book on how Armstrong has allegedly used illegal drugs to further his career. The book includes extensive interviews with former US Postal team staff members and is but one piece away to be a final indictment on Armstrong: a positive test. Lance Armstrong sued the authors for libel in French courts, but his lawsuit was quickly dismissed.

There is far more both circumstantial and damning evidence against lance… To the point it is almost impossible to believe his innocence.

That’s it to start with…



Note: Sorry for how messy this looks, wrote it in word and had loads of trouble posting it, cant be bothered to tidy it up and format it properly now.
 

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