Nick Against the World (76 Viewers)

[denco]

Dennis, would you like to know what I remember most about Zidane during his tenure at Juve??


Well, here it is.


The way he single handedly tried to hold Juve at gunpoint during the summer of 2001, even going on record as saying that "if it were up to him, he would already be at Real Madrid", and his insistence in only going there effectively nullified any chance of a bidding war.


Oh, here's the other thing I remember about him. His underhanded dealings with Real Madrid when he basically tried to broker his own deal, thereby "Allowing" Juventus to keep him for one more year, when he obviously didn't want to be there, and then transferring to Real the next season at a transfer fee of almost 1/3rd off of what Real was going to pay.

Could you imagine what would have happened if that had taken place??

Was he a great player?? Yes he was.

A great person?? Absolutely not, and in my 30 years of supporting Juventus, I honestly can't remember a situation that had infuriated me as much as that one 5 years ago.

I can honestly understand your frustration if what you are saying is actually fact, not what Juventus spinning machine put out for us to read. I am pretty sure he wanted to go to Real madrid but the one thing I am not sure of is if he actually did this. Cos really if he did, the Juve fans would have turned against him as they sadly this against Baggio, when Baggio did not do half as much as what you have claimed Zidane did but Moggi and co made sure that Baggio was made to be the villain of the piece and made some Juve fans turn against him. I never believe anything any board puts out as sometimes they wanna get the money but do not wanna take the flak of selling a hero. Its like when Lazio had agreed to sell Beppe Signori and the fans revolted and Cragnotti had to angrily agree to keep Beppe, only for the next season not to play him but put him on the bench, get Sven to build a team without Beppe , then loan him off to Sampdoria before ultimately selling him. After we sold Zidane , what were we fed , we were told he was more entertaining than effective. We were fed by the media that he was more effective playing for France than Juventus and this is a player who was just voted best player in the league. He practically carried Juve for 2 years on his back during Ancelotti's era cos Dp was recovering from serious injury and was at his lowest ebb as a juve player and not a source of creativity , not reliably consistent anyways.
Davids was branded a mercenary as well, was banished to reserves and playing likes of Appiah and co ahead of him to our detriment until he was loaned out to Barcelona. If a club can so wantonly and callously break the law by manipulating matches and crap like that, do you think they would think twice about putting out misleading stories about players' demands? Sorry Sergio but I cannot believe anything Juventus says unless I was there in person

 

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[Slagathor]

Lorenzo Staelens. Kluivert elbowed him on the chest, Lorenzo fell dramaticly and held his face

Boo Staelens boo

In other news:

Delft, Netherlands - The Technology University of Delft, ranking in the top five of its kind in the world, has begun building the Superbus as it was ordered by the Dutch Government several years ago. With the investigation phase nearly complete, the actual production phase is set to begin shortly. The Superbus is an environmentally friendly alternative to national flights, eliminating boarding and waiting times at overcrowded airports for relatively short national Dutch distances. The Superbus will travel over seperate lanes next to the nation's major highways and will reach speeds of 250 kilometers an hour. Its design is highly aerodynamic due to its low height (an approximate 170 centimeters) and smooth design.

I'm loving this

 

[Manuel]

Lorenzo Staelens. Kluivert elbowed him on the chest, Lorenzo fell dramaticly and held his face

Ah Staelens The good old days

 

[flieeeekke]

Give me a fucking break. Totti is absolute horse shit in all areas compared to Zidane. So just because Zizou lashed out with a headbutt in a World Cup Final after some classless Italian calls his mother a terrorist, he becomes nothing more than a "dirty bastard." After such a brilliant career he deserves more respect than that, no matter what he did on Sunday. Materazzi deserved it.

youre a hypocrite. thats like saying maradona never deserved a ban for snorting coke, after all what he has done in his career. ooh, newsflash, zizou denied matrix called him a terrorist.

this is football andrew, if you cant handle provocations, maybe its better to quit altogether. oh wait..

 

[KB824]

I can honestly understand your frustration if what you are saying is actually fact, not what Juventus spinning machine put out for us to read. I am pretty sure he wanted to go to Real madrid but the one thing I am not sure of is if he actually did this. Cos really if he did, the Juve fans would have turned against him as they sadly this against Baggio, when Baggio did not do half as much as what you have claimed Zidane did but Moggi and co made sure that Baggio was made to be the villain of the piece and made some Juve fans turn against him. I never believe anything any board puts out as sometimes they wanna get the money but do not wanna take the flak of selling a hero. Its like when Lazio had agreed to sell Beppe Signori and the fans revolted and Cragnotti had to angrily agree to keep Beppe, only for the next season not to play him but put him on the bench, get Sven to build a team without Beppe , then loan him off to Sampdoria before ultimately selling him. After we sold Zidane , what were we fed , we were told he was more entertaining than effective. We were fed by the media that he was more effective playing for France than Juventus and this is a player who was just voted best player in the league. He practically carried Juve for 2 years on his back during Ancelotti's era cos Dp was recovering from serious injury and was at his lowest ebb as a juve player and not a source of creativity , not reliably consistent anyways.
Davids was branded a mercenary as well, was banished to reserves and playing likes of Appiah and co ahead of him to our detriment until he was loaned out to Barcelona. If a club can so wantonly and callously break the law by manipulating matches and crap like that, do you think they would think twice about putting out misleading stories about players' demands? Sorry Sergio but I cannot believe anything Juventus says unless I was there in person

I can certainly understand your point of view in regards to the spin machine, especially in light of recent events. However, looking at the timeline, one would assume, and I use that word in the strongest of terms, that Juventus was more on the up and up, so to speak, in regards to Zidane.


Now, taking into consideration the recent match fixing scandal, then yes, it could be possible that the same spin machine wheels were in motion back then as well, although, as previously stated, Zidane did in fact come out and say what he said in regards to Real Madrid. Afterall, right or wrong, Perception is often Reality.


That being said, I know for a while you and I had a tete-a-tete in regards to the direction this club should go in the future, with me stating that I would have welcomed a youth revolution, even if it meant struggling for a couple of years, and you respectfully disagreeing with me. (As far as I can remember.)

Given the situation as it currently stands, even in the highly unlikely event of Juve remaining in Serie A, would you still be opposed to such a move, or would you prefer that it still be business as usual with talented veterans, albeit with those of questionable loyalty??

My feeling, and this feeling is derived from being in America and witnessing first hand how sports dynasties are built, is that you need to have a core group of young players, with a select few veterans sprinkled throughout the roster in order to not only be effective players, but mentors for the younger players. I have been opposed to the business model that has been in place for the last few years, and have been quite vociferous in my dissatisfaction, despite the results.

I would be interested in what your take in all of this would be.


P.S.- Prince just shut down his web site the other day. Although there are plans for a tour in the fall.

 

[Tourinorum]

what can you possibly blab about for 2703 pages?

 

[JCK]

what can you possibly blab about for 2703 pages?

Are you expecting an answer or was that just a smart arse remark?

 

[The Pado]

After we sold Zidane , what were we fed , we were told he was more entertaining than effective. We were fed by the media that he was more effective playing for France than Juventus and this is a player who was just voted best player in the league. He practically carried Juve for 2 years on his back during Ancelotti's era cos Dp was recovering from serious injury and was at his lowest ebb as a juve player and not a source of creativity , not reliably consistent anyways.

Yes, but the words in bold are 100% true. All the tricks and step overs in the world do not put the ball in the back of the net with any semblance of consistency, nor do said tricks and feints allow us to hold possession for significant periods which would allow us to build up play.

I do remember the good Zidane gave us, but in my mind the two consecutive sendings off in the CL that saw us finish bottom of the group is my keenest Zidane memory. And there is no hate, racism. homophobia, or beastiality there, my friend, and I'm not sure why you highlighted a football discussion of Zidane's past at Juve to discuss beastiality.

 

[The Pado]

Lorenzo Staelens. Kluivert elbowed him on the chest, Lorenzo fell dramaticly and held his face

Staalens was totally dirty with the way he played that up, but the fact he was able to get Kluivert to react was great.

By the way, Staalens called Kluivert a "Rapist", alluding to some criminal sex charges that Kluivert faced previously, but the lovely British media confused "Rapist" with "Racist" so Staalens was painted as a bigot for two days in the press. Maybe FIFA should concern themselves with the racism in the media as well as the racism in the stadium. The only offenses I know of from WC were those in the German papers.

 

[denco]

I can certainly understand your point of view in regards to the spin machine, especially in light of recent events. However, looking at the timeline, one would assume, and I use that word in the strongest of terms, that Juventus was more on the up and up, so to speak, in regards to Zidane.


Now, taking into consideration the recent match fixing scandal, then yes, it could be possible that the same spin machine wheels were in motion back then as well, although, as previously stated, Zidane did in fact come out and say what he said in regards to Real Madrid. Afterall, right or wrong, Perception is often Reality.


That being said, I know for a while you and I had a tete-a-tete in regards to the direction this club should go in the future, with me stating that I would have welcomed a youth revolution, even if it meant struggling for a couple of years, and you respectfully disagreeing with me. (As far as I can remember.)

Given the situation as it currently stands, even in the highly unlikely event of Juve remaining in Serie A, would you still be opposed to such a move, or would you prefer that it still be business as usual with talented veterans, albeit with those of questionable loyalty??

My feeling, and this feeling is derived from being in America and witnessing first hand how sports dynasties are built, is that you need to have a core group of young players, with a select few veterans sprinkled throughout the roster in order to not only be effective players, but mentors for the younger players. I have been opposed to the business model that has been in place for the last few years, and have been quite vociferous in my dissatisfaction, despite the results.

I would be interested in what your take in all of this would be.


P.S.- Prince just shut down his web site the other day. Although there are plans for a tour in the fall.

Are you sure that was me? I have always advocated that its a damned shame that Dp is the last homegrown players in his youth that we have developed. I have always opposed tried and trusted nonsense of getting players who are already superstars in their own club. I have always thought Juventus as a club has no soul . I am one of the very few who has opposed moggi from the very start. I got some flak from it from those who have sung Moggi's praises to the raptors. I even opened a thread saying "are juventus narrowminded" ? This was when we were successful. I am of the perhaps very few to be happy if we were stripped of any titles we won dubiously. I was against spending 33m on a goal keeper, 20m on players that are 29 and above, don't care what they have achieved in the past. Oneof the biggest critics of Capello as he is just about results and not taking a club forward with his signings on old players. I have never understood how we can have so many young Italian players and loan them out to every club in the world, not bothering to make them better players at all. Are we saying no Italian has the potential to be like Fabregas or Torres or Reyes? Rossi at Man united is going to develop into a fabulous prospect. At Juventus, i have no idea what happened to Chiumento who looked a good prospect in Lippi's last season. Perotta had to leave Juve to fulfil his potential. Brighi fell by the way side. De Sanctis has turned into a fine keeper but Juve just discarded him. Hopefully that way of running a club is done and dusted as there was way too much emphasis on winning scudetto and not on developing it as a club that learns how to play great football

 

[KB824]

Are you sure that was me? I have always advocated that its a damned shame that Dp is the last homegrown players in his youth that we have developed. I have always opposed tried and trusted nonsense of getting players who are already superstars in their own club. I have always thought Juventus as a club has no soul . I am one of the very few who has opposed moggi from the very start. I got some flak from it from those who have sung Moggi's praises to the raptors. I even opened a thread saying "are juventus narrowminded" ? This was when we were successful. I am of the perhaps very few to be happy if we were stripped of any titles we won dubiously. I was against spending 33m on a goal keeper, 20m on players that are 29 and above, don't care what they have achieved in the past. Oneof the biggest critics of Capello as he is just about results and not taking a club forward with his signings on old players. I have never understood how we can have so many young Italian players and loan them out to every club in the world, not bothering to make them better players at all. Are we saying no Italian has the potential to be like Fabregas or Torres or Reyes? Rossi at Man united is going to develop into a fabulous prospect. At Juventus, i have no idea what happened to Chiumento who looked a good prospect in Lippi's last season. Perotta had to leave Juve to fulfil his potential. Brighi fell by the way side. De Sanctis has turned into a fine keeper but Juve just discarded him. Hopefully that way of running a club is done and dusted as there was way too much emphasis on winning scudetto and not on developing it as a club that learns how to play great football

Like I said, I wasn't sure if it was you or not. I know I took some flak as well for my beliefs on how the club should be run.

Then again, Dennis, In the beginning we argued so much about everything I just naturally figured it was you.

 

[denco]

Yes, but the words in bold are 100% true. All the tricks and step overs in the world do not put the ball in the back of the net with any semblance of consistency, nor do said tricks and feints allow us to hold possession for significant periods which would allow us to build up play.

I do remember the good Zidane gave us, but in my mind the two consecutive sendings off in the CL that saw us finish bottom of the group is my keenest Zidane memory. And there is no hate, racism. homophobia, or beastiality there, my friend, and I'm not sure why you highlighted a football discussion of Zidane's past at Juve to discuss beastiality.

Yes but all the feints and step overs produced loads of goals for Inzaghi, Dp, Kovacevic, Trez, Boksic, Vieri, Amoroso and Padovano. As for bestiality, this is not a Zidane thread, its a thread were too much garbage is said , yes football is occasionally brought up but too many arguments and name calling and anti English in the guise of jokes. Too many guys insulting eachother and all that, like i said not my thing

 

[IlDivinCodino]

Zidane has done his good to football and i'm pretty sure everyone will agree to it but we are all humans.....and as guys, most of us cant simply handle provocations. What people would say, its all about pride. Zidane screwed himself in the last few minutes of his footballer career and thats the fact. And if someone is stupid enough to not even realise what he has done is just fucked up, thats Zidane! In football, there are rules to abide to, and if one acts the other way around, he simply will see red and be punished by almost everyone.......the media, FIFA, spectators......that's undeniable. When someone provokes you in football, taunt you with all sorts of offending remarks about your sister, your mother or whatever, that guy just have to use his brains!!! Screw him back about his father or something. This is nonsense. Zidane has never realise that. Since he was playing for Juventus until the very end of his career, he still never learn. And that will always be his very downside.
And now it shifts to Totti. I recalled someone was saying about people being harsh towards what Totti has done. Its somewhat true and not!!! FFS, if spitting is not awful, then what? Zidane's treatment was fair enough IMO. For a legend of today to be sent off in his final match for a headbutt is gracious if you ask me and Zidane definitely deserve that honour. I've said it once and I will say it again. If Zidane doesn't becomes a legend, I will cut my dick and eat my balls. Totti has always been an idiot. He has no class but only skills. To spit at someone is totally unacceptable. The slime and the juice from the saliva to be flowing down your neck. To hell with Totti, he deserved his ban. So lets just respect the decisions of the officials and lay back. If someone wants to argue with this, why dont you become the referee or a member in the FIFA board, smartass?

 

[IlDivinCodino]

Wow so Andy's words can evoke that kind of reaction from you and he did not even say them to your face did he? What would have happened if the writer of the article in the German paper ,Bild, actually said them to Gatusso's or anyother very patriotic Italian's face? How would he have reacted? But, yes, it is so easy to criticise Zidane for headbutting is it not? The person who said action speak louder than words is a moron as words hurt like hell. zidane did not take the cowardly way and spit at him. Zidane is the dirtiest player? Yes remember all the bad stuff he did at Juve and forget the good stuff. I do not frequent here cos little football is said, a lot of racial nonsense, homophobia and the like disguised as jokes. I mean people with hatred in their heart will love this thread. With the pretence that they are only joking they think they can get away with being racist , tribalistic and everything i oppose in life. Bestial jokes which are in very poor taste are the norm here as well. After all have been said and done , personally i think Zidane after Dp has been the best player to have played for Juve in the last 10 years

Let me put this straight, (in Juventus)Zidane did all the good things when it didn't matter.Zidane fucks everything up when it matters the most!!!
Remember?

 

[JCK]

On July 9th 2006, around 11 : 38 PM, I was walking on Fan Mile in Berlin with an Italian flag in my right hand and a pint of Biltburger in the left, singing il Mameli like there was no tomorrow. Suddenly I ran into this bizarre specimen of an Italian fan. He wasn't taller than 5 feet and a potato, and he seemed to have a very original idea about how to celebrate our historic win that night. After looking furtively around him, he opened his green and pink Invicta bag to show me its content. Inside were balloons filled with a yellowish liquid which I initially mistook for Kaiser Pills. "24 piss balloons, one for each year separating us from Italy's last World Cup triumph. See that ugly construction there that looks like a Lego version of Constantine's Arch ?", he asked. "Of course" I replied "it's the Brandenburg Tor. Only 15 years ago that is where what we used to know as the Western World ended, and behind it started the secretive universe of Real Socialism. Who would have thought back then that one day Checkpoint Charlie.." "Yeah yeah, whatever" he interrupted me "sell it to the tourists. I bet you a case of Paduan shitcans that I manage to climb on top of it and hit each of the 24 French fans still in Berlin with my bags o' piss". "Who are you ?" I inquired. "I am Darryl Vieri, Bobo's long lost cousin. Now if you'll excuse me I have to jog on. Viva l'Italia !". And he disappeared, swallowed by the crowd. I don't know if Darryl won his challenge, but one thing for sure is that I will never forget him.

:biggrin:

 

[denco]

Let me put this straight, (in Juventus)Zidane did all the good things when it didn't matter.Zidane fucks everything up when it matters the most!!!
Remember?

No my memory bank is fuzzy, remind me how he fucked everything up at Juventus when it mattered most. If you are talking about our Cl campaign, it was doomed even without his red cards. Our not winning more CLs was not down to him as he played well in every final and got us there with sublime play in the first place. In the league he won 2 scudetti under Lippi and we were woeful bar him under Ancelotti. Its not his fault it decided to rain in Perugia. It was not his fault when Van Der Saar was dropping clangers or am i missing something here?

 

[swag]

Boo Staelens boo

In other news:

Delft, Netherlands - The Technology University of Delft, ranking in the top five of its kind in the world, has begun building the Superbus as it was ordered by the Dutch Government several years ago. With the investigation phase nearly complete, the actual production phase is set to begin shortly. The Superbus is an environmentally friendly alternative to national flights, eliminating boarding and waiting times at overcrowded airports for relatively short national Dutch distances. The Superbus will travel over seperate lanes next to the nation's major highways and will reach speeds of 250 kilometers an hour. Its design is highly aerodynamic due to its low height (an approximate 170 centimeters) and smooth design.

I'm loving this

I saw that movie ... starring Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor, right?

No wait, that was a train called "Silver Streak". Nevermind...

 

[Bjerknes]

youre a hypocrite. thats like saying maradona never deserved a ban for snorting coke, after all what he has done in his career. ooh, newsflash, zizou denied matrix called him a terrorist.

this is football andrew, if you cant handle provocations, maybe its better to quit altogether. oh wait..

God, you're so funny, Fliakis.

 

[The Pado]

@ Libero - great story

What ever became of the Paduan shit cans?

 

[The Pado]

Our new shirts are being sold on juvestore ---- without a scudetto