'Murica! (336 Viewers)

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,546
I get that, but what i meant was if Trump was leading by 10% in PA for example after 2/3 of the votes counted and after 95% votes counted he leads by few tens of the %. Then, there's alot of the states where Trump was leading by couple %, but Biden's lead stood the same couple tens of the %. If there was such a big difference in mail votes, Biden would be leading by 5% for example, but it's always with the couple tens of the %. In PA he caught up that 10% lead by Trump via mail votes, so what made PA be different from other states for example? Also, Trump not leading a single state by few tens of the % seems weird, it's always Biden who leads with the minimium margin.

Still see doesn't explain why would a Democrat or Biden supporter vote via mail more likely than Trump supporter.

smaller counties are usually also first to respond which usually are conservative. Explains why trump had such a huge initial jump. But overall, it has been pretty close.

and that second part is pretty clear, Trump told his voters mail in ballots are fraudulent, therefore they’re less likely to vote by mail.
 

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Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,825
smaller counties are usually also first to respond which usually are conservative. Explains why trump had such a huge initial jump. But overall, it has been pretty close.

and that second part is pretty clear, Trump told his voters mail in ballots are fraudulent, therefore they’re less likely to vote by mail.
If he told them not to vote via mail, he would have been leading everywhere. Also, would there be such a big difference between the certain stages?

Also, Most of the states went by a quite big margin, but is there a state where Trump won by a small margin? Like all the remaining ones, Biden leads every single one of them by the minimium margin or won the by a minimium margin. Also, are the remaining ones the closest ones when you look at the whole vote count including all the states?
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,810
Can somebody explain what makes democrat's or Biden supporters vote in mail?
Could also be that Trump said before hand that vote by mail was fraudulent and his supporters believed him? :boh:
Probably a contributor, but not a primary factor.

This is a classic data bias problem. For example, if someone picked the demographic of pet owners, you'd hardly think there would be a ton of bias or skew in that. But it turns out that in places like London, it skews towards people who are overweighted rich and white. Why? Because many rental contracts have stipulations of not owning pets, which means pet owners skew more towards homeowners, and more homeowners in London tend to be rich and, well, pretty white too. So suddenly pet ownership is now an unwitting proxy for wealth and race.

It's important to evaluate these dimensions of bias. But I also recognize their limits too. Suddenly everything, no matter how innocent or random, becomes about something like racial or socioeconomic biasing. And people are more than their race, more than their latest tax return.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,546
If he told them not to vote via mail, he would have been leading everywhere. Also, would there be such a big difference between the certain stages?

Also, Most of the states went by a quite big margin, but is there a state where Trump won by a small margin? Like all the remaining ones, Biden leads every single one of them by the minimium margin or won the by a minimium margin. Also, are the remaining ones the closest ones when you look at the whole vote count including all the states?
certain states always vote Democrat, other states always vote republican.

the ones still undecided are swing states, they don’t go a particular way consistently, although lately more of them are turning blue.

trump has a small lead in North Carolina
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,402
No she doesn't, and it's a clear curb on liberties especially coming from a member of the government, mao mobilized kids to do his bidding, you don't need police/courts to infringe on people's rights. It's oh so clear to anyone with a modicum of knowledge of very recent history.
It's OK for her to say that because she's on "the right side history", whatever that means.

If Trump ends up winning re-election through the courts, I'm making a list and sending it to Donald so they can keep track of political dissidents in this thread. Swag and PI will be on the list because they should be held accountable for their actions. One will be under the lives in Portugal and only complains when the right does something wrong, while the other will be under the Canadian gender bender column.

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She's a little Trumpy herself in her Tweet-based snark. But she is correct in that a lot of Republicans need to be held to account for not only conceding their own ethical values to kiss the Trump ring, but those of their country's institutions. We live in a time where people would just as soon destroy the structures of checks and balances in a functioning democracy if that's what it takes to win power. There's also repurcussions for being so blood-thirsty for power that you start getting in bed with a cult of conspiracy theorists who have been mind-controlled by 4chan trollers.

I think it was the lefty Atlantic, but it posed a great question: America might get away with one because it encountered an authoritarian dictator menace who was too incompetent to get re-elected and cause more damage to the structures of American democracy. A more skilled, crafty one - say an American Putin - can see this as an opportunity to improve on the formula that so many checks and balances failed at in their lust for power. And the American Putin will be a lot more devious, skilled, and able to hold on to authoritarian power.

Even so, I do have to agree with the research that shows that 20% of America likes authoritarianism. Makes them feel secure, they like strong men, they have latent daddy issues, and it allows them to relax and not worry by feeling someone is always in charge for them for only the price of their loyalty and obedience. Hell, my wife's aunt misses the order and respect for authority that existed under Salazar. So an even worse Trump would probably get 20% of the vote at minimum. The sooner we acknowledge that, the better.

But the Republican party largely sold out America. For every Dan Crenshaw who has shown limits to the kind of rot he will accept in the best interests of his country, there are dozens of assclowns who will bend over for a seat at the victory party.



I'm not sure I'd say they are the worst, though there are pockets of it where that's absolutely true. And Schumer is suckupland alright.
Bush and Cheney completed executive orders and tossed out the constitution, Obama completed executive orders and tossed out the constitution, but only NOW we care because Trump. Sorry, that shit doesn't fly with me, try another argument.

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Can somebody explain what makes democrat's or Biden supporters vote in mail?
Because they're all dead.
 
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kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
7,515
It's OK for her to say that because she's on "the right side history", whatever that means.

If Trump ends up winning re-election through the courts, I'm making a list and sending it to Donald so they can keep track of political dissidents in this thread. Swag and PI will be on the list because they should be held accountable for their actions. One will be under the lives in Portugal and only complains when the right does something wrong, while the other will be under the Canadian gender bender column.

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Bush and Cheney completed executive orders and tossed out the constitution, Obama completed executive orders and tossed out the constitution, but only NOW we care because Trump. Sorry, that shit doesn't fly with me, try another argument.

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Because they're all dead.
The question is how do you prove the supposed fraud if there is any. Mail in vote is a very flawed system.
The only way I see it, is going door to door randomly and do a cross reference.
Is there an easier way to do it?
For all we know a person from other state could easily go in another and stuff ballots and it would be impossible to find out who did it. (or is it impossible to do this?)

Teoretically, can you print the mail paper and the paper on which you send your vote, or do you need special equipment?
Also how hard is voting fraud punished?
Because if there is only a fine or an easy sentence like 6 months etc., then for the right sum anyone could potentially break the law.
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2015
11,391
If he told them not to vote via mail, he would have been leading everywhere. Also, would there be such a big difference between the certain stages?

Also, Most of the states went by a quite big margin, but is there a state where Trump won by a small margin? Like all the remaining ones, Biden leads every single one of them by the minimium margin or won the by a minimium margin. Also, are the remaining ones the closest ones when you look at the whole vote count including all the states?
States have different rules when it comes to counting mail in ballots. In many states they actually counted them first and the situation was somewhat reversed, Arizona is a good example of this. There Biden had a sizeable lead after the mail in ballots had been counted and then Trump started to eat up at his lead as election day votes were counted.

Everyone who is somewhat familiar with the US election system knew this would happen in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. There were countless of articles about the so called red mirage or blue shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_shift_(politics). This happening is only surprising for those who either don't have a clue how the elections work in different states, are not good at digesting numbers or simply can't accept their lord has lost.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,402
The question is how do you prove the supposed fraud if there is any. Mail in vote is a very flawed system.
The only way I see it, is going door to door randomly and do a cross reference.
Is there an easier way to do it?
For all we know a person from other state could easily go in another and stuff ballots and it would be impossible to find out who did it. (or is it impossible to do this?)

Teoretically, can you print the mail paper and the paper on which you send your vote, or do you need special equipment?
I'm sure there are ways to fabricate the ballot. Not sure how much checking the vote counters do when they receive a mailed ballot. The hope would be they check their systems to see if the person already voted. In my county, I gave them my driver's license like a good American, they found my name in their list, and then printed off a ticket with my name on it so I can use the balloting system. I have no idea if they would catch whether I sent in a mailed ballot or not, and I doubt all places have this level of sophistication. Seeing as though people are people, and governments are inept, I find it laughable to suggest it's impossible to have voting fraud. But yeah, proving it is tough and would need to be done.
 

Suns

Release clause?
May 22, 2009
22,092
So is this the new norm of how we approach democracy going forward? Whenever you lose the election is rigged and you do everything to convince your voters that is a fact?

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What do you guys think of why mail in ballots weren't a problem in past elections? Is there a reason?
Trump+pandemic.
 

Pegi

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2019
1,825
States have different rules when it comes to counting mail in ballots. In many states they actually counted them first and the situation was somewhat reversed, Arizona is a good example of this. There Biden had a sizeable lead after the mail in ballots had been counted and then Trump started to eat up at his lead as election day votes were counted.

Everyone who is somewhat familiar with the US election system knew this would happen in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. There were countless of articles about the so called red mirage or blue shift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_shift_(politics). This happening is only surprising for those who either don't have a clue how the elections work in different states, are not good at digesting numbers or simply can't accept their lord has lost.
Did they really know Biden would come up on top by couple tens of the % in every single one?

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So is this the new norm of how we approach democracy going forward? Whenever you lose the election is rigged and you do everything to convince your voters that is a fact?

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Trump+pandemic.
If Trump told his voters not to vote via mail and then there's covid, that suggests to vote via mail, they didn't overrule eachothers? So was Trump's words more meaningful, than their health for example?
 
Jun 6, 2015
11,391
Did they really know Biden would come up on top by couple tens of the % in every single one?
The only really close one thus far is Georgia with Biden leading with only 7000 votes. In Wisconsin Biden won by ≈20000 votes (Trump won with similar margin in 2016). Michigan isn't close at all and in Pennsylvania the margin of victory for Biden will probably be bigger than it was for Trump in 2016. There is a reason why these states are considered swing states.

As I said Biden "coming from behind" was expected in these states as they counted the mail in ballots last. Big counties in these states were also understandably slower to count the votes compared to more rural counties which only made the shift even bigger.
 

radekas

( ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)
Aug 26, 2009
20,239
So is this the new norm of how we approach democracy going forward? Whenever you lose the election is rigged and you do everything to convince your voters that is a fact?

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Trump+pandemic.
That worked for the Polish ruling party. Every time they lost between 2007 and 2015 (like 8-10 elections on different levels) it was because someone rigged it. When they won in 2015 it was all fine of course though.
 

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