'Murica! (123 Viewers)

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
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Didnt reagan had the highest approval rating After he left office in the history of measuring that ?


I head Obama had 60-64% or something, which is very high. But it was CNN that reported it, who also said Hillary had a 100% winning chance.
Nope. It spiked to the low 60s just after he left office. Bill Clinton was in the high 60s just after he left office.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/p...ings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx

Reagan's average approval rating for the length of his presidential term is 6th of the 11 presidents post-World War II... Not including Obama in there yet.

There's a lot of revisionism that has gone on with Reagan, mythical histories proclaiming him a president of tax cuts (he did, but this crippled government revenue and he then instituted the largest tax raises, mostly on the middle class, in non-wartime US history), of lesser government spending (promised this, but nearly doubled government spending), smaller government (promised this, but actually increased the federal government size. amusingly enough Bill Clinton shrunk it), etc.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
64,692
Nope. It spiked to the low 60s just after he left office. Bill Clinton was in the high 60s just after he left office.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/p...ings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx

Reagan's average approval rating for the length of his presidential term is 6th of the 11 presidents post-World War II... Not including Obama in there yet.

There's a lot of revisionism that has gone on with Reagan, mythical histories proclaiming him a president of tax cuts (he did, but this crippled government revenue and he then instituted the largest tax raises, mostly on the middle class, in non-wartime US history), of lesser government spending (promised this, but nearly doubled government spending), smaller government (promised this, but actually increased the federal government size. amusingly enough Bill Clinton shrunk it), etc.
18:35

Moore is a lying marxist though ;)
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
:tup:

It's amazing that people ignore this side of his history. They say the income gap exploding during his term is just a coincidence. But Reagan started the modern US political discourse of attacking Unions, cutting taxes on the wealthy, and deregulating the financial sector. And that is directly responsible for the disappearing middle class in America.

It's hilarious that people try to deny it, and obfuscate with other factors. Matching these charts says it all. The third is growth in real after-tax income from 1979-2007.

Historical%20US%20tax%20rates.png


charticle0627112.png


Growth%20in%20Real%20After-Tax%20Income%20from%201979%20to%202007.png
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Nope. It spiked to the low 60s just after he left office. Bill Clinton was in the high 60s just after he left office.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/p...ings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx

Reagan's average approval rating for the length of his presidential term is 6th of the 11 presidents post-World War II... Not including Obama in there yet.

There's a lot of revisionism that has gone on with Reagan, mythical histories proclaiming him a president of tax cuts (he did, but this crippled government revenue and he then instituted the largest tax raises, mostly on the middle class, in non-wartime US history), of lesser government spending (promised this, but nearly doubled government spending), smaller government (promised this, but actually increased the federal government size. amusingly enough Bill Clinton shrunk it), etc.
Odd, i've read that somewhere a few months ago.


Also funny to see Clinton's very high approval rating, and the mess his legacy created today in black communities today.

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Interesting to see Obama's average approval rating. Lowerst since Carter.


Paints a different story then what CNN said
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,133
These women's marches. :howler: :rofl:

If Trump truly hated women, he wouldn't let his fucking daughter run his company.

These people need to kill themselves.

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:tup:

It's amazing that people ignore this side of his history. They say the income gap exploding during his term is just a coincidence. But Reagan started the modern US political discourse of attacking Unions, cutting taxes on the wealthy, and deregulating the financial sector. And that is directly responsible for the disappearing middle class in America.

It's hilarious that people try to deny it, and obfuscate with other factors. Matching these charts says it all. The third is growth in real after-tax income from 1979-2007.





Source: Tax Policy Center and Center for American Progress.

You do realize that they have an inherent reason to skew this data, right?
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
16,821
These women's marches. :howler: :rofl:

If Trump truly hated women, he wouldn't let his fucking daughter run his company.

These people need to kill themselves.

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Source: Tax Policy Center and Center for American Progress.

You do realize that they have an inherent reason to skew this data, right?
Enjoy the ride buddy, Trump can't pull his anti-establishment bullshit now that he's the most powerful man on the planet. He is the establishment now, you better get used to protests and resistance for the next 4 years.

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:tup:

And the so-called "left" ate that shit up, the Clintons were and are pretty much Reagan acolytes.
Sad to see the status quo in most first world countries is made up of either neocons or neoliberals. It's even sadder to see the people opposing them are mostly marxists, Islamists or fascists.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Enjoy the ride buddy, Trump can't pull his anti-establishment bullshit now that he's the most powerful man on the planet. He is the establishment now, you better get used to protests and resistance for the next 4 years.

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Sad to see the status quo in most first world countries is made up of either neocons or neoliberals. It's even sadder to see the people opposing them are mostly marxists, Islamists or fascists.
Did conservatives and republicans protest and resist, aka riot and destroy businesses after the 2009 inauguration ?
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
16,821
Did conservatives and republicans protest and resist, aka riot and destroy businesses after the 2009 inauguration ?
Looters and vandals are clearly just there to cause mayhem and sow discord, as are racist organizations like BLM, but that doesn't take from the fact that many people have legitimate grievances with Trump, who has time and time again shown himself to be a despicable human being.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,133
Of course I would give him credit. But during his campaign he told many verifiable lies. More so than any other candidate before. So why are you do confident he will actually do well?
They are lies because Fake News outlets say they are. His major campaign issue is that the Washington establishment doesn't care about middle America. Obviously that is the case, otherwise Hillary would have won. Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and other states aren't filled with a bunch of "racists". They have been screwed over countless times and the Democrats have failed to help them -- because they love exporting jobs to spread the "wealth." I'm pretty confident Trump will be far more capable to help them than the same people who have failed at it for decades.

I head Obama had 60-64% or something, which is very high. But it was CNN that reported it, who also said Hillary had a 100% winning chance.
Uhhh... I think it was like 95%. Stop pushing faux news, Zach. Maybe people here will start calling you Anderson Pooper-Scooper. :rolleyes2
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
:lol: at the notion it was the Dems who fucked over the middle class in middle America. Say hello to Mr Reagan and Mr Bush Sr. The Dems have just failed miserably to do anything at all to reverse the damage done by those two. In fact, they jumped on that bandwagon, and made it far worse.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,133
Enjoy the ride buddy, Trump can't pull his anti-establishment bull$#@! now that he's the most powerful man on the planet. He is the establishment now, you better get used to protests and resistance for the next 4 years.
So two days later, he's already akin to those that have been in Washington for decades... just because he's in there now?

He's already the most unpopular President in history and it's day two. Chances are he will exceed expectations just based on that alone. And the sad thing is, you don't even understand the establishment argument. What has this government done to help you the past 20 years? Has your purchasing power improved? Are your tax dollars being well-spent? Unless you're an illegal, you're probably not better off than you would be with any other random person installed into the "Oval Office".



You know Ivanca got put in the kitchen right? She's not running the company. She's raising the kids.
Yes, because of Jawed. They can't have ties to the company if he wants to work in Washington. But you know better than this -- he has strong woman around him which obviously negates the whiny liberal marches.

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:lol: at the notion it was the Dems who $#@!ed over the middle class in middle America. Say hello to Mr Reagan and Mr Bush Sr. The Dems have just failed miserably to do anything at all to reverse the damage done by those two. In fact, they jumped on that bandwagon, and made it far worse.
They had 8 years with Obama. Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall causing the derivatives bubble and signed NAFTA. If you think higher taxes for everyone creates saving and investment to create business, then you really shouldn't be in business. Please prove to me mathematically that higher taxes and more regulation encourages more business. If I don't hear back tonight I may die of liver failure.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
So two days later, he's already akin to those that have been in Washington for decades... just because he's in there now?

He's already the most unpopular President in history and it's day two. Chances are he will exceed exceptions just based on that alone. And the sad thing is, you don't even understand the establishment argument. What has this government done to help you the past 20 years? Has your purchasing power improved? Are your tax dollars being well-spent? Unless you're an illegal, you're probably not better off than you would be with any other random person installed into the "Oval Office".





Yes, because of Jawed. They can't have ties to the company if he wants to work in Washington. But you know better than this -- he has strong woman around him which obviously negates the whiny liberal marches.

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They had 8 years with Obama. Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall causing the derivatives bubble and signed NAFTA. If you think higher taxes for everyone creates saving and investment to create business, then you really shouldn't be in business. Please prove to me mathematically that higher taxes and more regulation encourages more business. If I don't hear back tonight I may die of liver failure.
:lol:

Higher taxes and regulation encourage income redistribution and a strong middle class and always have. There's a reason the income disparity gap started its skyrocket alongside the Reagan slashing of taxes on upper income earners and his deregulation of the financial sector and attacks on the unions. The fact that you want to blame democrats almost exclusively is hilarious. It's the partisan bullshit that's the problem now, because everyone is far too worried about automatically opposing everything the other side comes up with whether it's a half decent idea or not.

I've never said Clinton or Obama worked wonders and everything is the fault of conservatives. That's you, Andy, who spouts the same tired and tedious lines about "libtards" and "whiny libs" and how evil the democrats are.

I am perfectly happy acknowledging that democrats have failed. But that doesn't change the fact that Reagan and his policies are what created the post-1980 political discourse in America, which is the politics of a disappearing middle class, insane income gap, soaring deficits, massive government spending, and so on. The liberals jumped in the bandwagon, and made it even more retarded during the Clinton years, and The less said about Bush Jr, the better. Obama failed to follow through with pretty much anything, and was basically just inept and drowned his presidency in partisan nonsense.

And no I don't think "higher taxes for everyone" is the answer, though I certainly do thing high income earners should be in a much higher tax bracket. I think taxes should remain low for small businesses certainly, and to an extent corporations and industry. And I'm in favour of smaller, more efficient government.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,133
:lol:

Higher taxes and regulation encourage income redistribution and a strong middle class and always have. There's a reason the income disparity gap started its skyrocket alongside the Reagan slashing of taxes on upper income earners and his deregulation of the financial sector and attacks on the unions. The fact that you want to blame democrats almost exclusively is hilarious. It's the partisan bull$#@! that's the problem now, because everyone is far too worried about automatically opposing everything the other side comes up with whether it's a half decent idea or not.
It's just complete nonsense. Just because you tax a certain segment of the population more than others doesn't mean those funds will actually go towards advantageous wealth redistribution. It's more likely they go into massive contracts for private contractors or some other BS. If you put it all into food stamps, great, but that doesn't solve any issue related to job creation. Somebody living on government assistance isn't going to create their own business in most cases, and companies aren't going to hire more just because their CEO is making less money or the taxes really inspire them to hire. Just look at where we stand now -- much of that tax income goes toward repaying interest on bonds purchased by multinational banks. Those bonds fund the bloated government, not the public.

We have a problem these days as to what is considered economic growth. Government spending will never, ever, be considered real economic growth because there is no production of a physical good or service. Trump at least seemingly knows this, which is why he is pushing for more productive capacity here. Obama, despite being the great "orator" he is, could never find a way to say that. That's probably because he doesn't believe in it -- and that's why Trump was elected.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
Of course it doesn't mean that it go towards wealth redistribution... Wealth redistribution happens through things like good public education, good public health care for everyone, easy access to good social services... now those things require efficient and efficacious bureaucracy something America has failed at miserably. And increase taxes in the current political climate wouldn't solve anything, that's not even what I'm arguing, just as decreasing taxes on higher income earners doesn't solve anything.

I am arguing that the Reagan-Bush-Clinton era has shaped the modern political discourse in North America. That the massive tax cuts, financial deregulation and union-destruction of that era led to the quandary we currently face with a disappearing middle class and soaring income disparity, massively bloated government, soaring deficit spending and trade, and so on. Trickle-down economics don't work, they never have. While nice in theory, the rich and powerful rarely pass on to lower classes the wealth and benefits gained in such settings. The rich take advantage of it to get richer, corporations get obscenely powerful, small business can't compete, the middle class evaporates.

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The problem isn't the republicans or the democrats, left or right...

The problem is the bitter polemic between them and this partisan refusal to acknowledge that the other side has anything at all of value to offer. And that is getting worse. In large part because of inane and idiotic movements on both sides, like BLM, like modern SJWs, like LGBTPQIA or whatever the fuck they go by now... But also like the alt-right, and white nationalism, and more extreme elements of the Tea Party movement.

Everything is so absurdly reactionary, and once begun Spirals out of control, beyond what was perhaps once a reasonable beginning, with an actual point, into these farcical parodies of the original movement.
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
16,821
So two days later, he's already akin to those that have been in Washington for decades... just because he's in there now?
Take one look at some of the members of his cabinet:

Steve Mnuchin, a former Goldman Sachs partner who's bank once evicted a 90 year old over 27 cents.

Betsy De Vos, wife of the heir to Amway, a lobbyist who has lobbied against public education and for guns in schools.

Jeff Sessions, who once said he thought the KKK were fine until he found out they smoked weed.

Rex Tillerson, CEO of Exxon

Rick Perry, Christian fundamentalist who will head the Department of Energy.

Scott Pruitt, fervently anti-EPA, a department he will lead. God knows what the rollbacks will be on water safety regulations if this guy has his way.

Wilbur Ross, billionaire investor and former banker

Ben Carson, the less said about him the better

These are some of the richest, sleaziest, most corrupt and most anti-secular people you will find in the entire country.
Trump did a great job draining the swamp, only to replace it with a toxic nuclear wasteland.
 

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