'Murica! (199 Viewers)

[Fake Melo]

It's not just politicians. It's whiny college students complaining about administrators. It's people having to vaccinate their kids. It's everybody.

There's a term I've used here for at least three decades now: "The ever-popular Hitler analogy".

Internet discussions as well. Godwin's law.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[swag]

Internet discussions as well. Godwin's law.

It's a law, not just a hypothesis.

 

[Hust]

My guess is that Trump is paving the road for Bush. Trump will drop out before the election and praise Bush (which he is already doing if you listen carefully to what he is saying). Bush will despite being outsmarted by a pigeon will start looking like a regular joe and not utterly useless. My guess is that Bush family is offering Trump something and that this was planned for a long time, many years ago. In the end Bush will win the election against Clinton. Though Clinton may not be the president US needs, Bush family has and will never steer the world or the US on a progressive path. They are in it for the money like many else, but they are far more opportunistic than most. Hopefully they won't ruin the country...

Jeb is toast. Trump will stay until the polls tell a different story.

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Sometimes Ben Carson's idiocy comes out in spades. rndh

I love the part where he says if he was confronted by a mass murderer psycho with a gun, he wouldn't go down without getting a bunch of people around him to jump the guy since he couldn't kill all of them.

What kind of delusional, self-aggrandizing dream world is this guy living in? He was doing so well earlier too...

May as well have said, "If I was in Nazi Germany, I would have tried to take out Hitler with my bare hands!"

Ok, so if you were in a classroom with a guy with a gun what would you do? Sit there and wait your turn?

 

[Fake Melo]

Ok, so if you were in a classroom with a guy with a gun what would you do? Sit there and wait your turn?

Don't tell me you support that argument

 

[Hust]

Don't tell me you support that argument

Is that what I said?

Its annoying hearing people here act like they know what they would do in that situation.

How is that example any different than the 3 US dudes that took down the shooter on the train in France? Attack in numbers is all he was suggesting, wasn't it?

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Let me ask you, Melo: What would you have done? Apparently you have been through that situation before and can walk us through the playbook.

 

[Fake Melo]

Is that what I said?

Its annoying hearing people here act like they know what they would do in that situation.

How is that example any different than the 3 US dudes that took down the shooter on the train in France? Attack in numbers is all he was suggesting, wasn't it?

It sounded like you support the "arm the citizens" argument.

There's nothing you can do in that situation, because you shouldn't be in the situation. If it was more difficult for a crazy person to attain a weapon, less situations like the one you are mentioning would happen.

Jesus, Hust. When did you become such a baby?

 

[swag]

Jeb is toast. Trump will stay until the polls tell a different story.

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Ok, so if you were in a classroom with a guy with a gun what would you do? Sit there and wait your turn?

I don't know until I am in such a situation. That's the point. Given that facing a gun in my face by an armed psycho is not something I have much experience with, how does any of us really know how we'd react and what we would do under such a life and death crisis situation?

So for some cushy-assed doctor to spout off that he'd go all action hero is not only a joke, it's a dismissive insult to anybody who might find themselves frozen or hesitant under such circumstances. It's as arrogant as suggesting that the Jews in concentration camps were pushovers and that instead he'd try armed resistance instead.

I mean, what fucking gives him the authority to pass judgement on people in a situation his pampered ass never had to face?

 

[Hust]

It sounded like you support the "arm the citizens" argument.

There's nothing you can do in that situation, because you shouldn't be in the situation. If it was more difficult for a crazy person to attain a weapon, less situations like the one you are mentioning would happen.

Answer my question and stop avoiding it: What would you have done? You, a few other classmates and a teacher and in walks a guy with a gun. Do you sit there and wait your turn?

 

[Fake Melo]

I don't know until I am in such a situation. That's the point. Given that facing a gun in my face by an armed psycho is not something I have much experience with, how does any of us really know how we'd react and what we would do under such a life and death crisis situation?

So for some cushy-assed doctor to spout off that he'd go all action hero is not only a joke, it's a dismissive insult to anybody who might find themselves frozen or hesitant under such circumstances. It's as arrogant as suggesting that the Jews in concentration camps were pushovers and that instead he's try armed resistance instead.

I mean, what fucking gives him the authority to pass judgement on people in a situation his pampered ass never had to face?

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Answer my question and stop avoiding it: What would you have done? You, a few other classmates and a teacher and in walks a guy with a gun. Do you sit there and wait your turn?

It's impossible to answer before you are in the situation. I would like to believe that I would gang up with some of them and take him down, but that's not what's going to happen when I see him blast several of my classmates to kingdom come.

What I do know is that I would never carry a gun to school because someone might one day go crazy and decide to blast half the school.

 

[Post Ironic]

Aren't there elections right now over at your place?

Yep. On the 19th. Huge strategic voting movement going on right now, especially for young people, all aimed at removing Harper from office. I don't particularly like any of the candidates from NDP, Liberal, or Green, but I can say with certainty they'd all be preferable to another Conservative majority right now.

I really despise single party majority style governance. I much prefer coalition style government, where multiple parties must work together in parliament. Canada's been sliding towards this since the liberal dominance of the 90s ended, and several right wing parties merged to create a massive machine on that side of the political spectrum. I'm hoping the centre-left parties don't end up merging too, and we end up stuck with a ridiculous bipartisan setup like in America. I'd much rather see several smaller parties form coalition governments working together with input from all across the map.

 

[Hust]

I don't know until I am in such a situation. That's the point. Given that facing a gun in my face by an armed psycho is not something I have much experience with, how does any of us really know how we'd react and what we would do under such a life and death crisis situation?

So for some cushy-assed doctor to spout off that he'd go all action hero is not only a joke, it's a dismissive insult to anybody who might find themselves frozen or hesitant under such circumstances. It's as arrogant as suggesting that the Jews in concentration camps were pushovers and that instead he's try armed resistance instead.

I mean, what fucking gives him the authority to pass judgement on people in a situation his pampered ass never had to face?

Him saying what he would do in that kind of situation when asked is both passing judgement on people that were unlucky enough to be in that situation and a dismissive insult to them?

Ok, let me put it this way: My grandmother and great grandmother escaped from two Russian concentration camps during WWII as they were killing Slavic Germans. If I say to you that I would fight tooth and nail to save my own life and those around me in that shooter situation then by your definition I am not only insulting those in labor camps in WWII but arrogant?

Is it really far fetched to think some people would rather try and defend themselves right away? If that's the case then I am absolutely everything you accused him of, apparently.

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It's impossible to answer before you are in the situation. I would like to believe that I would gang up with some of them and take him down, but that's not what's going to happen when I see him blast several of my classmates to kingdom come.

So you don't know.


Further more, you agree with Swag I don't have much else to say to you.

 

[Fake Melo]

Him saying what he would do in that kind of situation when asked is both passing judgement on people that were unlucky enough to be in that situation and a dismissive insult to them?

Ok, let me put it this way: My grandmother and great grandmother escaped from two Russian concentration camps during WWII as they were killing Slavic Germans. If I say to you that I would fight tooth and nail to save my own life and those around me in that shooter situation then by your definition I am not only insulting those in labor camps in WWII but arrogant?

Is it really far fetched to think some people would rather try and defend themselves right away? If that's the case then I am absolutely everything you accused him of, apparently.

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So you don't know.


Further more, you agree with Swag I don't have much else to say to you.

Don't be so stingy Hust.

I respect your grandmother fleeing from Russian concentration camp and I respect everyone else putting up a fight to save their, or other people's lives, but the discussion here is Ben Carson's statement.

Especially about the Holocaust. What it's really about is an attempt to score a cheap point with the gunlovers, or lobbies without thinking of the families of the jews dying under WWII.

Why didn't he apply the argument to slavery?

 

[Post Ironic]

Him saying what he would do in that kind of situation when asked is both passing judgement on people that were unlucky enough to be in that situation and a dismissive insult to them?

Ok, let me put it this way: My grandmother and great grandmother escaped from two Russian concentration camps during WWII as they were killing Slavic Germans. If I say to you that I would fight tooth and nail to save my own life and those around me in that shooter situation then by your definition I am not only insulting those in labor camps in WWII but arrogant?

Is it really far fetched to think some people would rather try and defend themselves right away? If that's the case then I am absolutely everything you accused him of, apparently.

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So you don't know.


Further more, you agree with Swag I don't have much else to say to you.

I think the point is that none of us know what we would do in such a situation, and neither does Carson. If Carson had been in such a situation before and actually fought tooth and nail, and knew this was how he reacts to such a situation, he probably wouldn't feel the need to spout off about it.

What is disrespectful is his very act of public speculation on how he would have reacted differently. He should keep his mouth shut, and not hypothesize that he would have been braver and fought harder for his life in such a situation. It's offensive and disrespectful to the families of those who died that he would voice these kind of thoughts publicly.

 

[swag]

Him saying what he would do in that kind of situation when asked is both passing judgement on people that were unlucky enough to be in that situation and a dismissive insult to them?

Ok, let me put it this way: My grandmother and great grandmother escaped from two Russian concentration camps during WWII as they were killing Slavic Germans. If I say to you that I would fight tooth and nail to save my own life and those around me in that shooter situation then by your definition I am not only insulting those in labor camps in WWII but arrogant?

Is it really far fetched to think some people would rather try and defend themselves right away? If that's the case then I am absolutely everything you accused him of, apparently.

But you're speaking in vague, generalistic terms...not of a specific situation with specific circumstances where you have to face a life-or-death decision. Do you take a shot and play dead? Do you charge the shooter? Do you presume you stay alive as long as you can as a potential hostage? None of us can really answer that. We can't even answer what is the correct decision at that time as we don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Carson wasn't there. How is he capable of assessing the situation and deciding that charging the shooter was the best course of action? It's so presumptuous, it's ridiculous.

Sure, we'd all like to think our survival instinct would kick in and we'd do whatever it takes to survive such a situation. For the few of us who have ego trips and think they're macho heroes, they'd like to believe they would charge the shooter to take him out. But unless you're in it, saying you know you'd go all macho street fighter and jump in on a gunman is both arrogant and ignorant.

Just look at the people who jumped on the gunman at the Porte de Vincennes siege in January. They got shot dead. The people who lived hid in the freezer or remained nearby as hostages. So in hindsight, the right answer would have been to hide in the freezer or to lay low as a hostage.

 

[Hust]

But you're speaking in vague, generalistic terms...not of a specific situation with specific circumstances where you have to face a life-or-death decision. Do you take a shot and play dead? Do you charge the shooter? Do you presume you stay alive as long as you can as a potential hostage? None of us can really answer that. We can't even answer what is the correct decision at that time as we don't have the benefit of hindsight.

Carson wasn't there. How is he capable of assessing the situation and deciding that charging the shooter was the best course of action? It's so presumptuous, it's ridiculous.

Sure, we'd all like to think our survival instinct would kick in and we'd do whatever it takes to survive such a situation. For the few of us who have ego trips and think they're macho heroes, they'd like to believe they would charge the shooter to take him out. But unless you're in it, saying you know you'd go all macho street fighter and jump in on a gunman is both arrogant and ignorant.

Just look at the people who jumped on the gunman at the Porte de Vincennes siege in January. They got shot dead. The people who lived hid in the freezer or remained nearby as hostages. So in hindsight, the right answer would have been to hide in the freezer or to lay low as a hostage.

A classroom doesn't have a freezer to hide in. I think that is his point. I think at some point people quickly learn, at least in this Oregon situiation, is he was deliberately killing people. If a guy comes into a 7-11 to rob the cash register I think most people would cooperate so he would leave as quickly as possible. But a class room? Sure its hard to predict what you would do in that situation but knowing what we know now about the Oregon shooting it wasn't a robbery or a hostage situation it was straight up cold murder: all he said was he would act.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I see how it could come across as callous to those in that situation because they lived it but everything else about him being arrogant and the example of disrespectful to concentration camp victims, etc I simply don't agree with.

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I don't know about the other quotes he has made about arming Jews or whatever I haven't seen/heard it so that is news to me.

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I will say this, I find it hypocritical for passing judgement on a guy who hypothetically is passing judgement on others.

 

[swag]

A classroom doesn't have a freezer to hide in. I think that is his point. I think at some point people quickly learn, at least in this Oregon situiation, is he was deliberately killing people. If a guy comes into a 7-11 to rob the cash register I think most people would cooperate so he would leave as quickly as possible. But a class room? Sure its hard to predict what you would do in that situation but knowing what we know now about the Oregon shooting it wasn't a robbery or a hostage situation it was straight up cold murder: all he said was he would act.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I see how it could come across as callous to those in that situation because they lived it but everything else about him being arrogant and the example of disrespectful to concentration camp victims, etc I simply don't agree with.

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I don't know about the other quotes he has made about arming Jews or whatever I haven't seen/heard it so that is news to me.

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I will say this, I find it hypocritical for passing judgement on a guy who hypothetically is passing judgement on others.

You really think a guy pulls out a gun in a classroom and you have that much time to make a full psychological analysis of his motives and decide to jump him before he even takes the first shot?

And what if everybody ganging up on him is a great strategy... how do you know that none of the others would act in kind, making yourself a sitting duck? It's not like you have time to huddle with your fellow victims and draw up a plan together.

You weren't there. You know crap all about the situation and the circumstances and the speed at which things played out. Presuming that you know better than those in the situation, especially with the benefit of hindsight and days of reporting and psychological profiling, is both arrogant and beyond presumptive.

 

[Hust]

If you can't tell the difference between a robbery and cold murder...then I guess that's where the discussion ends. If you recall, many people heard gunshots so that should tell the people right away he isn't there for money and survival instincts should start kicking in.

But again, if one needs a team huddle and an hour with a shrink to know ones motives then I guess we would be seeing a lot more dead law enforcement officers.

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But I guess enough time hadn't passed between the constant questioning about which religion they were and waiting for them to answer before shooting...

 

[icemaη]

I'll just leave this here

“I have had a gun held on me when I was in a Popeye’s organization,” Carson said on Karen Hunter’s Sirius XM Radio program.

“Guy comes in, put the gun in my ribs,” Carson said.

“I just said, ‘I believe that you want the guy behind the counter,’” Carson said.

 

[Hust]

I'll just leave this here

I saw that. He explained why the answer was different than the one he used for the Oregon shooting. But again, if you can't tell the difference between a robbery and murder then...

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Anyways, here is an article regarding Carson's WWII references:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ht-about-guns-and-holocaust-charles-c-w-cooke

 

[Trequartista]

Yep. On the 19th. Huge strategic voting movement going on right now, especially for young people, all aimed at removing Harper from office. I don't particularly like any of the candidates from NDP, Liberal, or Green, but I can say with certainty they'd all be preferable to another Conservative majority right now.

I really despise single party majority style governance. I much prefer coalition style government, where multiple parties must work together in parliament. Canada's been sliding towards this since the liberal dominance of the 90s ended, and several right wing parties merged to create a massive machine on that side of the political spectrum. I'm hoping the centre-left parties don't end up merging too, and we end up stuck with a ridiculous bipartisan setup like in America. I'd much rather see several smaller parties form coalition governments working together with input from all across the map.

For whom are you going to vote?

I don't like any of the parties (they're all the same, no major difference whatsoever between them). If there was a real alternative I would vote but these parties are all disgusting.

I'm not voting as I don't want to legitimize this rigged political system. I'll vote the day a real alternative arises.