'Murica! (95 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fake Melo
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It is their equivalent to "build the wall". Its a simple statement of a totally unrealistic and stupid goal but with powerful implications that even the most shallow and uninformed person can get behind. Virtue signalling 
Coming out and speaking reasonably about your dislike for some of the cruder aspects of our immigration policy and that, while you understand we do need immigration restrictions and customs enforcement, you think that we should consider maybe not separating children from their parents is just so much less appealing and tweetable to the outrage mob than "abolish ICE!"
Coming out and speaking reasonably about your dislike for some of the cruder aspects of our immigration policy and that, while you understand we do need immigration restrictions and customs enforcement, you think that we should consider maybe not separating children from their parents is just so much less appealing and tweetable to the outrage mob than "abolish ICE!"
No doubt, I agree with that completely. But they are why Trump exists, why he got elected, and why he will be reelected. Sanders read the game better than they did. They completely ignored the people who Sanders and Trump were appealing to.
Did the US have open borders before 2002?
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Still much better than vice signaling, which got Trump elected president.
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Yep. You read the tweet and thought Sanders was asking for open borders.
Did the US have open borders before 2002?
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It is their equivalent to "build the wall". Its a simple statement of a totally unrealistic and stupid goal but with powerful implications that even the most shallow and uninformed person can get behind. Virtue signalling
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Yep. You read the tweet and thought Sanders was asking for open borders.
It's very natural that in this divided environment moderates cannot win elections. That's how many Republicans have been booted out post 2010. What establishment democrats underestimated was how petulant Sanders core was. Naturally they are trying to get close to that core to maybe increase their chances to get elected, but then the core comes up with something idiotic like this.
So without answering my question with another one, would you please enlighten me what "Abolish ICE" means?
So without answering my question with another one, would you please enlighten me what "Abolish ICE" means?
It is their equivalent to "build the wall". Its a simple statement of a totally unrealistic and stupid goal but with powerful implications that even the most shallow and uninformed person can get behind. Virtue signalling
Coming out and speaking reasonably about your dislike for some of the cruder aspects of our immigration policy and that, while you understand we do need immigration restrictions and customs enforcement, you think that we should consider maybe not separating children from their parents is just so much less appealing and tweetable to the outrage mob than "abolish ICE!"
Coming out and speaking reasonably about your dislike for some of the cruder aspects of our immigration policy and that, while you understand we do need immigration restrictions and customs enforcement, you think that we should consider maybe not separating children from their parents is just so much less appealing and tweetable to the outrage mob than "abolish ICE!"
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He starts by saying he was right about ICE, and continues by saying we need to abolish our cruel system. It's impossible not to take the hint. He's a Senator. Even if he does not mean it he should be better at messaging.
Except of course he's signalling to his base.
He doesn't have to say that exact phrase because, if he were somehow elected president, he likely wouldn't follow through with that but the first two sentences are "I voted against the creation of DHS and the establishment of ICE. That was the right vote." He knows what he's doing, how that statement is going to be interpreted. He's riding the wave of that stance without directly promising he will do something that he won't actually do.
Democrats didn't acknowledge the fact that there are people in the US who are not happy with the current situation, care for neither of democrats/republicans, and are not insignificant in number. That's how they lost.
Where did he even say abolish ICE? And my question was a valid one, why are you equating "abolish ICE" with open borders? That makes no sense.
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I get what you say, but he insists in the next tweet that he means restructuring such agencies as ICE. That's not asking for abolition of ICE imo, even if he was originally against its creation.
Where did he even say abolish ICE? And my question was a valid one, why are you equating "abolish ICE" with open borders? That makes no sense.
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I get what you say, but he insists in the next tweet that he means restructuring such agencies as ICE. That's not asking for abolition of ICE imo, even if he was originally against its creation.
I'm not sure if you really believe he wants to abolish ICE or not. In your question you're hinting that calling for abolishing ICE does not mean open borders since we did not have those pre 2002. However, in another post you say he does not ask for abolishing ICE. I'm still confused on what exactly that means. Then again, I can only extract hints from your questions since you avoid answering mine directly.
Economic message is only one part of what democrats missed. It's also apparent many Americans are not happy with influx of illegal immigrants as well. So Sanders' message is very unhelpful.
Economic message is only one part of what democrats missed. It's also apparent many Americans are not happy with influx of illegal immigrants as well. So Sanders' message is very unhelpful.
Are most of his audience actually going to see that part though? Pretty sure Huffingtonpost is going to ignore that, paste the original tweet, and write an article about how Bernie is the best cause he wants to "abolish ICE just like you" and not even mention that.
The follow up tweet gives him wiggle room for deniability later and in the eyes of people will read deeper but is that really his intent with the tweet? Pretty sure he knows that the first tweet is what is going to be read and talked about as well as what message it alone conveys.
To be clear I don't think Bernie actually even wants to do that, he is certainly more level headed than someone like trump who might actually be crazy enough to follow through on his most out there campaign promises but he is very clearly trying to cash in on that popular position.
The follow up tweet gives him wiggle room for deniability later and in the eyes of people will read deeper but is that really his intent with the tweet? Pretty sure he knows that the first tweet is what is going to be read and talked about as well as what message it alone conveys.
To be clear I don't think Bernie actually even wants to do that, he is certainly more level headed than someone like trump who might actually be crazy enough to follow through on his most out there campaign promises but he is very clearly trying to cash in on that popular position.
That's because I have a problem with both your premise and conclusion 
As I said, I personally and honestly didn't sense an "abolish ICE" message, he's asking for reforms. But let's say he said that, then I have a problem with your intrpretaion of it. Even if he said abolish ICE, why would you think he's asking for open borders?
As I said, I personally and honestly didn't sense an "abolish ICE" message, he's asking for reforms. But let's say he said that, then I have a problem with your intrpretaion of it. Even if he said abolish ICE, why would you think he's asking for open borders?
That's because I have a problem with both your premise and conclusion
As I said, I personally and honestly didn't sense an "abolish ICE" message, he's asking for reforms. But let's say he said that, then I have a problem with your intrpretaion of it. Even if he said abolish ICE, why would you think he's asking for open borders?
As I said, I personally and honestly didn't sense an "abolish ICE" message, he's asking for reforms. But let's say he said that, then I have a problem with your intrpretaion of it. Even if he said abolish ICE, why would you think he's asking for open borders?