'Murica! (238 Viewers)

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
37,877
But that's pretty much what I'm arguing for, most of his foreign policy attitude at this point is pure speculation -> hence the instability argument that comes from unpredictability.

Of course European leaders should still try to work together with him on issues that make sense, if that's what you're alluding to.

Basically, for me the man holding the most powerful office on earth has the burden of proof that he's got some idea on how to govern, I shouldn't have to prove the opposite.

And there's still the whole issue of how Americans will fare under his leadership, even if that's a secondary concern for you.
He should, but for me he needs to fuck up before I can confidently claim that he is a failure.

It's important to divide foreign policy and domestic policy when debating Trump as an European. I can't defend him on domestic policy, as I disagree with everything he wants to do in America. At the same time I can barely get myself to care, considering the mess Europe is in and the work we have ahead of us.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Well yeah, he has yet to fuck up (though he has already pissed off a rather impressive number of US allies and other countries before he even took office, not a good foreign policy record to start with).

But benefit of the doubt doesn't apply here for me. I mean you could claim benefit of the doubt for literally anyone who hasn't held political office already, and the vast majority of those clearly aren't fit to be president of the US.
 

Nzoric

Grazie Mirko
Jan 16, 2011
37,877
Well yeah, he has yet to fuck up (though he has already pissed off a rather impressive number of US allies and other countries before he even took office, not a good foreign policy record to start with).

But benefit of the doubt doesn't apply here for me. I mean you could claim benefit of the doubt for literally anyone who hasn't held political office already, and the vast majority of those clearly aren't fit to be president of the US.
He can't be worse than the alternative for us. If that isn't enough to claim benefit of the doubt then this is a lost cause :D
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Well yeah, he has yet to fuck up (though he has already pissed off a rather impressive number of US allies and other countries before he even took office, not a good foreign policy record to start with).

But benefit of the doubt doesn't apply here for me. I mean you could claim benefit of the doubt for literally anyone who hasn't held political office already, and the vast majority of those clearly aren't fit to be president of the US.
My country is an american ally, and we will gladly open our anus for whatever america asks, and this is the case for everyone, especially since Trump seemingly gets along with Putin.

We might not like it that he wants to be compensated for pulling Nato work , we might not like it that, god forbids, he wants better terms with russia (our farmers wont be angry about that). Because Europe needs America far too much, which is why we have been the bitch of their foreign policies since forever.


Aside that, there was the china thing, where he got a call and picked up the phone. China felt it couldnt happen so got pissed, and a response Trump questionned the entire thing there.


What will CHina do ? Copy everything western and make it themseles, completely disregarding copyright ? allready happens. Find another market for their product ? allready saturating europe and russia is nice to buy weapons from but doesnt nearly have the market that the us have for civilian goods.





Nothing bad happened for the US in foreign politics whatsoever. And i'd rahter have that we dont meddle with russia's backyard and stop pushing sanctions, but that we are forced to get along, whilst the US stops meddeling everywhere themselves.
 

Hængebøffer

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2009
25,185
....and what exactly is your point relating to this discussion?



Honestly depends on what part of politics you're talking about. Economically, or when it comes to stuff like patriotism for sure.

Gay rights on the hand not so much.

- - - Updated - - -



:tup:

- - - Updated - - -



True, but that ultimately depends on how much power he really has on foreign policy within his cabinet/the military.
Wat. That's just wrong.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
....and what exactly is your point relating to this discussion?
I'm quoted as a massive trump supporter. I'm not. But the criticism is excessive and extremely one sided, so i try to make balance.


I'm however absolutely not a fan of his policy, quite the opposite. I have a right libertarian view, which opposes trumps protective all goverment style.


But he is elected and has to be given a fair chance. See how it goes, see how it works. Its in our best interest if it doesnt fail too badly
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,342
I'm quoted as a massive trump supporter. I'm not. But the criticism is excessive and extremely one sided, so i try to make balance.


I'm however absolutely not a fan of his policy, quite the opposite. I have a right libertarian view, which opposes trumps protective all goverment style.


But he is elected and has to be given a fair chance. See how it goes, see how it works. Its in our best interest if it doesnt fail too badly
The criticism is not excessive at the moment. It was at the very beginning of his campaign though. And that helped him in the end.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
The criticism is not excessive at the moment. It was at the very beginning of his campaign though. And that helped him in the end.
I cant open any social media without beeing bombarded with excessive criticism and overanalysing everything he said or could do.


All mainstream channels except fox are absolutely going mental. Belgium as a good bitch follows suit. Apparently De Standaard will rename to CNN Belgium soon.
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,664
I cant open any social media without beeing bombarded with excessive criticism and overanalysing everything he said or could do.


All mainstream channels except fox are absolutely going mental. Belgium as a good bitch follows suit. Apparently De Standaard will rename to CNN Belgium soon.
Nothing that Trump hasn't brought on himself. I mean, seriously, who goes to a meeting with congressional leaders rambling about millions of illegals that won the popular vote for Hillary. Every single question or criticism of Trump has been brought about by Trump. Stop being such a whiny liberal always looking for fairness and balance.
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
They are, its a cultural thing that is the root of the problem. Democratic leaders are to blame for making it exponentially worse.



In 1940 black families had a 78% poverty rate.
In 1964 it had shrunk to just 40%
Simply because the kids had great incentive to do well.


Then the social benefits were introduced in 1964, which took the incentive away, kept them poor and, made themin dependant on democratic leaders, nice voterbase.
First scenario: you are very poor, at a level we label 0. There's no social benefits. According to what you say, you have the incentive to do well.

Second scenario: you are very poor and you receive social benefits. So instead of a 0, you are a 5. According to what you say, you have NO incentive to go beyond 5. Why would you have gone beyond 5 in the first case then? Shouldn't you have stopped there if that's the maximum welfare level you are aiming for?

Under Obama, several indicents occures between cops and, black criminals like michael brown.

Some cops went out of lines, many cops ARE killed by black thugs. Dont resist arrest if your kind has a record of copkilling.
And what did it have to do with Obama?

As for the bold part, what Trump said about Obama's dividing the nation didn't remind me of you, what the guy who was filming shouted did.

He completelt failed to adress it, he completely failed to deal with the racist biggot organisation BLM. As a result the racial disparity is bigger after than before Obama.
What if it was because the white America wasn't able to stomach a black president for 8 years, which showed itself in their election of a clown such as Trump? Not a bright theory, but definitely less idiotic than what you say.

X showed me about Sowell and i like him alot, is Sowell not black ?
We have good black species and bad black species.

- - - Updated - - -

My father and my brother in law, and not only are they decent, they are intelligent as well. My brother in law's distrust for Clinton is a result of personal contact that he and his sister (Marine and New Hampshire State Police officer, respectively) have had with her whenever she was in New Hampshire. Her utter disrespect that she showed them , while they were in uniform, was enough for him. My father was a staunch Democrat until the Carter Administration.

All three of us are Republicans, but they and myself are on diametrically opposing viewpoints of this president.
Clinton's disrespect for them in a number of personal contacts made them become Trump supporters? They probably were looking for an excuse. It was tough for most to admit that they were Trump supporters.

Good that you know a couple decent ones, I have yet to see one. Every encounter I had with a Trump supporter (in none of them I was directly involved thankfully) has been a nasty one in the past year, making me think that Trump has made it okay for a bunch of indecent people to act and behave indecently.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
First scenario: you are very poor, at a level we label 0. There's no social benefits. According to what you say, you have the incentive to do well.

Second scenario: you are very poor and you receive social benefits. So instead of a 0, you are a 5. According to what you say, you have NO incentive to go beyond 5. Why would you have gone beyond 5 in the first case then? Shouldn't you have stopped there if that's the maximum welfare level you are aiming for?



And what did it have to do with Obama?

As for the bold part, what Trump said about Obama's dividing the nation didn't remind me of you, what the guy who was filming shouted did.



What if it was because the white America wasn't able to stomach a black president for 8 years, which showed itself in their election of a clown such as Trump? Not a bright theory, but definitely less idiotic than what you say.



We have good black species and bad black species.

- - - Updated - - -



Clinton's disrespect for them in a number of personal contacts made them become Trump supporters? They probably were looking for an excuse. It was tough for most to admit that they were Trump supporters.

Good that you know a couple decent ones, I have yet to see one. Every encounter I had with a Trump supporter (in none of them I was directly involved thankfully) has been a nasty one in the past year, making me think that Trump has made it okay for a bunch of indecent people to act and behave indecently.
1)
Scenario one : you are poor and there is plenty of wage mobility to improve, you have to pull effort to get by
Scenario two : you are less poor, but you could obviously do alot better, you need to pull effort to improve, there is little of social benefit to leech on
Scenario three : you are less poor, but you have food stamps and several social benefit that allow you to just about break even. You can either have little effort and maintain your situation, or you can pull effort to improve it.

The result of scenario 3 is people beeing stuck where they are. partly a cultural thing, partly cause its set up in a way they become dependant on that welfare and food stamps now.
I dont know how the situation is in Iran, but Belgium is a prime example of this.

We did the same in the french part. Mines closed and the socialist party trew easy welfare for all, resulting in decades of very high unemployment fee and the average wealth tanking compared to the dutch part.
Today we are a shitcountry with insane welfare for all. The difference between a starting job and wellfare is low. Chose wellfare and you'll never improve. Chose the job and you have the chance to better yourself and improve.
This is why Sanders is a big bullet dodged.

2)
Obama had a great responsability. These people all voted him. Compare his speech to the vastly superior one of "retard W Bush". He let it all go by.
Kind is referring to hispanic, african american, white caucasian. If its a poor chose of words, then i do appologise.


3)
If a black republican runs president, the demmies will hate him, if its a black democrat, the reps will hate him.
Demmies contain a bit of loonies like the 3rd wave feminists, bernie people, anarchists and black racists
Reps contain a bit of loonies like the racist redneck segment, KKK. They got Libertatians tho :tup:


4)
No, you dont. You have different characters and ideologies. In Belgium we got De Winter and Mertens. One is a racist populist, the other is a radical communist. (I like neither)



Not sure why the personal insults on me are neccecary to be honst.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,342
We did the same in the french part. Mines closed and the socialist party trew easy welfare for all, resulting in decades of very high unemployment fee and the average wealth tanking compared to the dutch part.
Today we are a shitcountry with insane welfare for all. The difference between a starting job and wellfare is low. Chose wellfare and you'll never improve. Chose the job and you have the chance to better yourself and improve.
This is why Sanders is a big bullet dodged.
This is just you repeating the same bullshit that has been spewed over and over again by right wing political parties in Belgium. But we do have a very inefficient welfare system and one that is holding people back, I agree with you there. We'd be far better off if we replaced it with basic income. Right now you have people getting 1,000 Euros on welfare and they'd get maybe 1,100 working full time jobs. I can't blame them for choosing welfare, especially when they might have kids to worry about.

2)
Obama had a great responsability. These people all voted him. Compare his speech to the vastly superior one of "retard W Bush". He let it all go by.
Kind is referring to hispanic, african american, white caucasian. If its a poor chose of words, then i do appologise.
Just posts above you were sayings words don't matter, but actions do. Yet now you're blaming Obama for a bad speech. Which one is it, Zach? Please name me three concrete things you think Obama fucked up and how he fucked them up. Given your grief with Obama three should be fairly easy.

3)
If a black republican runs president, the demmies will hate him, if its a black democrat, the reps will hate him.
Demmies contain a bit of loonies like the 3rd wave feminists, bernie people, anarchists and black racists
Reps contain a bit of loonies like the racist redneck segment, KKK. They got Libertatians tho :tup:
When was the last time you saw feminists or 'bernie people' literally burn human beings?

Not sure why the personal insults on me are neccecary to be honst.
It's easy to see why people might be getting frustrated. You have little to no general knowledge when it comes to politics and you act as if you know it all. And to make it so much worse you're so fucking gullible it's painful to watch.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,342
Lol. The people who mock CNN are usually the people who come up with some obscure internet only media channel to back up their insane conspiracy theories.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Wat. That's just wrong.
You mean my reply to you? Why?

As I've said, the left wing of the democrats would be moderately right wing in a lot of issues, but in some their views would definitely see them at home at the European left wing movements as well.

He can't be worse than the alternative for us. If that isn't enough to claim benefit of the doubt then this is a lost cause :D
Well, I'd say he definitely can, but you're right, he hasn't been yet :D

- - - Updated - - -

So you think CNN is actually unbiased? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Please, do tell us why CNN is wrong here.

And no one thinks CNN is unbiased ffs, every news organisation and journalist is.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 14, Guests: 206)