Modern football (1 Viewer)

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
You know Fliakis, you haven't actually put forward an argument. You've tried to ridicule me, which is appreciated by a lot of member I guess, but in terms of actually contributing to the conversation you're pretty useless.

I don't like people to be ridiculed.


The last 10 words are hilarious.

 

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[Fred]

++ [ originally posted by Seven ] ++
I was just reading a couple of threads in the Euro 2004 forum and it reminded me of the infamous Denmark-Sweden game. I began wondering whether modern football had become a game you win by making deals rather than having a good team.

Now let me take the Italian national team and the Italian club teams for an example:

Euro 2000
Zambrotta gets a red card after receiving his second yellow card against Holland. IMO it was pretty clear that Zambro should never have been sent off. You can say whatever you want, but we all now it's very doubtable a Dutch player would have received red as well.

Furthermore the penalty Holland were gifted against the Czech Republic was a joke as well. But hey, Holland are the home nation after all, right?

World Cup 2002
Half of the goals scored by Italy are disallowed. All five of them were perfectly legal. In total three goals scored against Corea were disallowed. All three of them were perfectly legal.

Instead of getting a penalty, Totti receives his second yellow for an alleged dive. Later on the linesmen would admit he had initially flagged for a penalty.

Even when it came to something as simple as taking penalties rules weren't applied as they should. The Corean goalie came out of his goal three times against Spain and none of the penalties were retaken.

To make things worse it seemed as if making Italian players bleed was an act as noble as whiping Queen Elisabeth's ass.


Euro 2004
It's the final group game. A lot of speculation is being made about whether or not Denmark and Sweden would deliberately tie 2-2. Before the game both teams do their best to stress the fact they will try to be sportsmanlike.
The game ends 2-2. Period.

Champions League
Being an avid Juventus fan I have witnessed some strange things along the way when we were playing CL. Like Davids receiving various discussable red cards to say the least. And every time everyone reacted by saying "well, it's his reputation". I wonder in how far his reputation was created by referees deliberately trying to get him a red card.

As for Roma, things are just plain disgusting. Roma haven't received a fair treatment for years now and something has to be done.
Like Totti getting sent off against Arsenal a couple of seasons age while it was obvious he didn't do anything wrong. He didn't even do anything in fact.

Or this lighter-incident Roma had this season. Are we seriously going to chase clubs for not forbidding their fans to own lighters?

And the various red cards Roma had this season. How many of them were justified? Just one (De Rossi).

And last but not least: Inter.
How about getting a three match-ban for hitting an opponent after he made a nasty foul and hit you in the face? Oh yeah, I forgot to add, your opponent doesn't get to be sent off.

Every season I ask myself how on earth it is possible that Real Madrid doesn't win the CL every year. Just look at the advantages they get from referees.

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PS: "As a football player I would like to believe it's human incompetence.."
(Fernando Hierro, after Corea-Spain)

oh come on

 

[Seven]

Yet again I witness someone rolling his eyes, but not giving any argument on why to do so.

 

[Bjerknes]

Figures it would be an England supporter as well.

 

[Layce Erayce]

Seven, the only way to discount the argument you make is to show that another country recieved similar treatment on the club and national-level.

I agree with Seven that something SEEMS is wrong, but you have to consolidate your argument by showing that other countries got less bookings, less disallowed goals, less conceded penalties, less dubious calls against them than Italy.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

so mr. seven. how do you suppose we solve this problem ?

 

[Seven]

Well, if we were to solve this problem we should reduce the number of money that is pumped in to the footballing society. In fact, the only way to be more or less certain that games aren't fixed is making football an amateur sport again.

As I don't see this happening, I doubt this problem will ever go away. I simply can't imagine that you would allow so much money to be be dependant on something as unreliable as football results. And think about how many people have to be fair in order not to get fixed games.

 

[Layce Erayce]

but couldnt matches be fixed even without money involved? supporter pressure? threats? etc?

and i agree with removing money from football. i was for it completely.

 

[Seven]

Matches could probably be fixed yes. But IMO it would happen less frequent.

 

[Layce Erayce]

its not worth the overhaul tho is it? just so matches can be fixed less frequently

 

[Seven]

No probably not. But I hadn't really thought of a solution yet. I was just sick and tired of ignoring the obvious problem.

 

[Juve89]

I don`t really think the problem of fixed matches is so big.....
Ther are some matches who seems fixed but that dosen`t mean that they are.
And i don`t think the problem would dissapear even if they redused the ammount of money in football.
It is always a way to fix a match.....

 

[Geof]

I have a strong feeling amateur matches are fixed way more often and more easily than pro matches.

If you're in contact with amateur football, you must know about a certain kind of refs, complaining about their crappy salary, and getting a new watch after a dubious match... It's nothing big, more somethin like: "psst ref, 25 Euro if you have my team to win this game"...

That's really sad.

As about pro football, it use to be a big problem, but the professionalisation (?) is IMO a good thing, there is a lot more control, and I can't see someone taking that risk today...

But I can be wrong of course

 

[Seven]

There would only be a risk if the teams themselves bribed the ref. But what if the orders come from above?

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
Why is it that fans of calcio are so fond of conspiracy theories? We've seen it lots of times in the past, fans of other clubs making wild claims about how Juve makes deal with referees and whatnot. At the time all of those statements were labeled ludicrous. But when it's Juve or Italy that isn't good enough to win, suddenly we're just like them, aren't we?

Actually I've never thought they were ludicrous. You have to admit Juve do get a lot of calls that go their way. Probably just because they're a big team, but you can't deny most calls are due to go Juve's way.

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by pecker ] ++
Haha come on, only Italians believe it was a set-up.

Denmark scores 1-0, Sweden had to equalize.
Denmark scores 2-1, Sweden had to equalize.

We did the same routine against Italy, the result seems logic to me.

And I think its weird how every player on the field would agree to this kind of stuff. Especially Tomasson who loves Italy more than he loves Scandinavia and Denmark.

Ridiculus, let it go. :dontcare:

FFS. The game had to end 2-2 and it did. Yes Sweden had to equalise twice. But so what? I could have said that the before the game as well. Anyway, glad Sweden lost against Holland. They never deserved to be there in the first place. They weren't good enough against Denmark and they were completely outplayed by Italy in the first half.

That's something what bothers me as well. Everyone keeps on saying Italy didn't deserve to reach the quarter finals. But can you seriously say Sweden did? Sure, they were great against Bulgaria, but they were the lesser side against Denmark and Italy.