I don't remember much of that final but I do remember his goal came from Tevez, I think Morata needed Tevez much more than Tevez needed Morata
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Massimiliano Allegri (329 Viewers)
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True about Klopp. Next week he will have reached two CHL finals with fucking Dortmund and Pool and for some posters here he is apparently the worst coach in the universe.
About Allegri, there is things he does very well and there are things he cant do. He is a top level coach but he has some flaws as well. That really has not changes in the four years he has been here. Result wise he has done a good job here, but I think there are other managers out there who could do just as well, and at the same time play some positive attractive football. I know it is a big no no around here, but most of us watch 55-60 games with Juve a year, and for the last three seasons, with the exception of the second half of the 2015/2016 and second half of the 2016/2017 seasons we play some horrible football, and it could be nice to tune into a Juve game and feel excited about what you are going to see.
About Allegri, there is things he does very well and there are things he cant do. He is a top level coach but he has some flaws as well. That really has not changes in the four years he has been here. Result wise he has done a good job here, but I think there are other managers out there who could do just as well, and at the same time play some positive attractive football. I know it is a big no no around here, but most of us watch 55-60 games with Juve a year, and for the last three seasons, with the exception of the second half of the 2015/2016 and second half of the 2016/2017 seasons we play some horrible football, and it could be nice to tune into a Juve game and feel excited about what you are going to see.
I see you are supporting this point in a couple places. Question for you, knowing we don't have a mega budget to work with, how do you strengthen our midfield then without selling? I'm assuming our only options are buying in Italy (Pellegrini, Torreira, Cristante, or Bentancur type deals) and hope for the best.
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Thank you very much! And the past two summers were two steps backwards. Last season Allegri managed to find balance and a winning formula but after last summer it was simply impossible, the squad has been annihilated.
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How can our squad be better if the midfield grunt (our strongest asset) is absent.
We have a better bench maybe in terms of names but in terms of balance it is not.
And the fullbacks are iffy.
That there is a lot of areas in the team which makes the squad overall worse.
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How can our squad be better if the midfield grunt (our strongest asset) is absent.
We have a better bench maybe in terms of names but in terms of balance it is not.
And the fullbacks are iffy.
That there is a lot of areas in the team which makes the squad overall worse.
By squad I meant depth and overall quality players in the side
Balance is a different story, Padoin was on our bench in the final against Barca
Mario played out of his mind and Cuadrado played really well also last year which masked the lack of physical presence in our midfield
Khedira was a lot better as well
Once again I'm just saying if you throw one or two dynamic technical players in our midfield we'd have a better squad overall than either of the finals
Which is why I don't agree with selling important pieces (Dybala, Higuain) to fund midfield moves
Balance is a different story, Padoin was on our bench in the final against Barca
Mario played out of his mind and Cuadrado played really well also last year which masked the lack of physical presence in our midfield
Khedira was a lot better as well
Once again I'm just saying if you throw one or two dynamic technical players in our midfield we'd have a better squad overall than either of the finals
Which is why I don't agree with selling important pieces (Dybala, Higuain) to fund midfield moves
I think he had to step down when his heart told him to, and that was after Cardiff.
The board was wrong into making up his mind to stay. Definitely something broke that summer. He was not meant to continue if he was not fully into it.
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Yeh, i dont understand what mike said in that post tbh. You can very well play a very defensive game with 2 strikers (capellos 442 in juve for example). In fact, you can play very defensive regardless of formations, it all depends on the tactics and players you use. Obviously there are some formations that are more defensive and other more offensive, but the final line is traced by the Coach and what he orders to players and which players he uses.
The board was wrong into making up his mind to stay. Definitely something broke that summer. He was not meant to continue if he was not fully into it.
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Yeh, i dont understand what mike said in that post tbh. You can very well play a very defensive game with 2 strikers (capellos 442 in juve for example). In fact, you can play very defensive regardless of formations, it all depends on the tactics and players you use. Obviously there are some formations that are more defensive and other more offensive, but the final line is traced by the Coach and what he orders to players and which players he uses.
I see.
Still, for me is pretty clear he is a defense oriented coach. Allegri himself have said previously that he values the "1-0" result. It tells you what his aim is and the discipline he follows. He is italian (and no im not being racist) and italians come from a very particular football enviroment and are prepared in a very particular football school of coaching.
And this doesnt mean it is bad, as it has been shown numerous times 1 0 results are favorable in certain situations, especially when you know how to defend. But this team is not compatible with allegris tactics anymore, the reasons being multiple, but the result is that we are simply playing not up to it. In short words.
We have an array of offensive wingers that are going nowhere next season (more could even come)...so we must use them in a wingbased formation. But it seems wingbased offensive formations are not his cup of tea. On top of that our weak midfield and weak defense unbalance the whole team. Yeah, we can bring new players to fix this, but our systematic problem will continue there because we simply cant play offensively, we rarely can impose our game and attack. And this cant be fixed easily as far as i can tell.
Still, for me is pretty clear he is a defense oriented coach. Allegri himself have said previously that he values the "1-0" result. It tells you what his aim is and the discipline he follows. He is italian (and no im not being racist) and italians come from a very particular football enviroment and are prepared in a very particular football school of coaching.
And this doesnt mean it is bad, as it has been shown numerous times 1 0 results are favorable in certain situations, especially when you know how to defend. But this team is not compatible with allegris tactics anymore, the reasons being multiple, but the result is that we are simply playing not up to it. In short words.
We have an array of offensive wingers that are going nowhere next season (more could even come)...so we must use them in a wingbased formation. But it seems wingbased offensive formations are not his cup of tea. On top of that our weak midfield and weak defense unbalance the whole team. Yeah, we can bring new players to fix this, but our systematic problem will continue there because we simply cant play offensively, we rarely can impose our game and attack. And this cant be fixed easily as far as i can tell.
Anyone playing 2 strikers will not be as defensive as a team playing only 1 striker. Unless you are Simeone's Atletico and really it's a 4-6-0.
But yes, Capello was a shocking coach who played defensively with great players. But he could have played even more defensively if he dropped one of ADP/Trez.
But yes, Capello was a shocking coach who played defensively with great players. But he could have played even more defensively if he dropped one of ADP/Trez.
First, he built that team using peanuts, and second yes.. this is a very limited team that should be nowhere near winning the Bundesliga against Bayern or reaching the CL final. Hummels and Lewa are obviously worldclass. Maybe Reus too if he isnt always injured. The rest are good but nothing special players and practically zero bench/depth.
You dont consider this group winning the league and reaching a final as punching above their weight? Do you consider this group as on par or equal to the Juve's that reached the finals? What about this liverpool squad?
If you consider reaching a final with Juve is impressive because we have limited squad and monies, then doing the same with BVB and Pool is twice as impressive. Our squads have been heads and shoulders above theirs.
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No they are not.They may have had 3 or at the most 4 players that would start in our current squad but practically no bench. And in those positions we have high quality players not mediocre ones so it is barely a drop in quality (between Reus and DC for example).
Everyone likes to ignore the quality of Allegri's football and focus instead on results and take that alone to be a mark of genius.
Klopp combines both in Europe, getting young inexperienced small squads to bulldoze most teams in the CL and beating some bigger clubs along the way. and I'd imagine he would establish local dominance had he been Juve or Bayern's coach. Yet Klopp is seen as an idiot.
Would Allegri have taken BVB and Pool farther in Europe? Would those teams have done it in this bulldozing style? The answer is maybe for the first, hell no for the second and yet one is a lauded as a genius and the other an idiot.
Point is, most people here are waaaaaay too harsh on Klopp and if they apply the same standard they use for Allegri they'd see Klopp in a very different light. undervaluing Klopp is almost a psychological defense mechanism that we use to feel good about Allegri's life-draining approach.
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how so what did they do.
You dont consider this group winning the league and reaching a final as punching above their weight? Do you consider this group as on par or equal to the Juve's that reached the finals? What about this liverpool squad?
If you consider reaching a final with Juve is impressive because we have limited squad and monies, then doing the same with BVB and Pool is twice as impressive. Our squads have been heads and shoulders above theirs.
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No they are not.They may have had 3 or at the most 4 players that would start in our current squad but practically no bench. And in those positions we have high quality players not mediocre ones so it is barely a drop in quality (between Reus and DC for example).
Everyone likes to ignore the quality of Allegri's football and focus instead on results and take that alone to be a mark of genius.
Klopp combines both in Europe, getting young inexperienced small squads to bulldoze most teams in the CL and beating some bigger clubs along the way. and I'd imagine he would establish local dominance had he been Juve or Bayern's coach. Yet Klopp is seen as an idiot.
Would Allegri have taken BVB and Pool farther in Europe? Would those teams have done it in this bulldozing style? The answer is maybe for the first, hell no for the second and yet one is a lauded as a genius and the other an idiot.
Point is, most people here are waaaaaay too harsh on Klopp and if they apply the same standard they use for Allegri they'd see Klopp in a very different light. undervaluing Klopp is almost a psychological defense mechanism that we use to feel good about Allegri's life-draining approach.
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how so what did they do.
