Massimiliano Allegri (367 Viewers)
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Allegri “Sportivo Piemontese dell'Anno”
Might be because people hated him excessively when he was appointed the reason I grew fond of him from the start, hoping he proves them wrong and makes his mark here. Right now there's no doubt that he's the best manager in the game. Deserves renewal at better terms here.
Mate, that 2012/13 season Vidal scored 18 goals. Pirlo was the season MVP. You are really comparing Pirlo close to his best where the entire football world saw him lead Italy to a Euro final and was widely considered to be the best playmaker in the world, with the unspectacular basic marchisio. You need Xavi, Alonso or scholes at their best to compare to that Pirlo not freaking marchisio who wouldn't even start in any of the big spanish teams.
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Only because we had the worst start in our history. If we had started properly, these teams would not be in contention with us at all and Napoli would have been the only good competition. Our decline is why there is a race this season.
Don't forget that in 2012 we had a Roma that won its first ten matches without conceding (Roma's best season in their history). In 2011 we had a Milan that contained Ibra, Silva, Cassano, Seedorf etc. coached by Allegri. The only season that was a stroll in the park is Conte's third/last season and Allegri's first season.
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Umm... this season serie A really balanced. Week in week out changing leader (for most of 1 half of season anyway), and team like torino, sampdoria, sass, and empoli adds more intrique for the viewers.
When conte take over milan still one of favourite, but for next 2 season its pretty clear we had no challanger imo.
Napoli, Inter
, fiorentina, milan, lazio, and some team i alrdy said before. Today serie a are more fun to watch.
God knows i love claudio, but anyone belittle pirlo contributions must been blind or smth. Pirlo usually decisive, not only as playmaker, he also can create goal from fk when its deadlock situation, and we knows he done that several times.
When conte take over milan still one of favourite, but for next 2 season its pretty clear we had no challanger imo.
Napoli, Inter
, fiorentina, milan, lazio, and some team i alrdy said before. Today serie a are more fun to watch.God knows i love claudio, but anyone belittle pirlo contributions must been blind or smth. Pirlo usually decisive, not only as playmaker, he also can create goal from fk when its deadlock situation, and we knows he done that several times.
Don't forget that in 2012 we had a Roma that won its first ten matches without conceding (Roma's best season in their history). In 2011 we had a Milan that contained Ibra, Silva, Cassano, Seedorf etc. coached by Allegri. The only season that was a stroll in the park is Conte's third/last season and Allegri's first season.
I see your point, agreed on 1st paragraph, still i think the levels of serie a arguably better today than when conte reigns. As i said before, teams like sass, empoli, torino and sampdoria could make life difficult for almost top serie a teams. And by top team even inter back in contention as a top team, thanks god they're coached by mancini.
back in contention as a top team, thanks god they're coached by mancini.
Yikes, Allegri to Chelsea rumours heating up. It would be bad enough to lose Allegri, but if he takes players with him...
Even if that absurd ruomour would turn out to be true we would be fine. Coaches come and go that's the nature of the bussines nowadays. Allegri is in no position to "take" players with him they are Juve players and are bound by a contract. Anyways that kind of thing only happens when a manager moves to a clearly better team ie Sarri to Napoli.
How is he underestimate claudio attacking ability. He's clearly said Pirlo was better at setting up play. He's give Pirlo recognition that's the guy deserved. I'd said theres none other player i have seen could do as great as pirlo in his role. Even conte build his juve team based on pirlo. And yes, claudio have different role..
2 paragraph.. Agreed in this juve Claudio is more essential player. The one who give balance thats we're desperately needed. Well.. Claudio and Khedira give balance.
2 paragraph.. Agreed in this juve Claudio is more essential player. The one who give balance thats we're desperately needed. Well.. Claudio and Khedira give balance.
12/13 Vidal had 15 goals in all competitions. the one after that he had 18 goals and it was his best year with us until that injury. also, Pirlos best season was 11/12 when we won our 1st scudetto. 12/13 both were world class, but not at the very top of their games.
also, this current starting midfield did not play enough games, especially against the very best opposition to compare them to that 12/13 midfield. Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal started most of our games that season with Pogba mainly being a sub or occasional starter + all 4 were fit most of the time. this current starting midfield needs Khedira fit for atleast 10-12 games in a row, preferably against top Serie A and CL clubs in the next months, to give us a better overlook on how it compares to the 12/13 one. but i have to say, from what ive seen so far of them, they arent looking much inferior to Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio, if at all (im looking at the whole midfield and how it functionates as an unit, not comparing player to player, which is pointless considering all had different roles on the team)
last season after 23 games we had 54 points. this season we are on 51 (Napoli has 53). thats how much we declined, 3 points. we have only 3 points less than in our historical almost treble winning last season. after the clubs worst start in history. how did that happen again? oh yeah, we broke our Serie A winning streak record with 12 consecutive wins after, and this is the very important part that i want you to pay close attention to because you often like to ignore it, most of our key players returned from long injuries or just started to settle in. seriously, we had 10 new players in the team, few starters and important bench players from previous seasons were out injured, some new players were also injured, some arrived late so they didnt have a proper pre season with the rest of the team. and to top it of, the players that everyone expected to carry us on (Pogba and Morata) were fighting with bad form, still finding themselves in their new roles as leaders and trying to find chemistry with the new players. getting over such a crisis in the way we did is really impressive. if we end up winning the scudetto, which i dont doubt, then it would be a more impressive season than the 102pts one to me.
about the bolded part. yes, If we had started properly, these teams would not be in contention with us at all, because we would be on our way to break 100pts again.
you like mixing seasons up it seems. Roma historical season was in 13/14. they won 85 points (record for a 2nd placed team was Milan 88 points) and gave us a push until the last few games. 12/13 was the easy one, where our biggest challenge was Cavani, Hamsik and a bunch of amateurs wearing a Napoli shirt. Milan was also not bad that year, led by Balotelli, El Shaarawy and refs they barely managed to win 3rd place ahead of Fiorentina.
Milan in 11/12 while having a great team on paper was in big decline. not only that, most of their senators didnt even play that much due to age and injuries. you simply have to check the stats and see how much their most important players played.
Ibra and Silva were on the top 5 in both minutes and games played (among the mighty Abbiati, Abate and Nocerino). van Bommel started 22 games, while Seedorf for example started in just 14 games. among others, Nesta 16, Zambrotta 10, Ambrosini 17, Cassano 11, Gattuso 4, Inzaghi 0... but that was becuase they had football greats playing ahead like Robinho with 21 starts, Antonini 17, Bonera 17, Emanuelson 17, Boateng 15, Aquilani 14... that team gets overrated a lot due to the names they had and the fact that they should have kicked Barca out if it werent for that joke penalty (or were there 2 joke penalties?). however, that was only 2 games where they had most of their stars fit and it can not be used to judge their performances and form throughout the entire season. that team was one Ibra injury away from us winning the league comfortably few matchdays before the end.
also, this current starting midfield did not play enough games, especially against the very best opposition to compare them to that 12/13 midfield. Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal started most of our games that season with Pogba mainly being a sub or occasional starter + all 4 were fit most of the time. this current starting midfield needs Khedira fit for atleast 10-12 games in a row, preferably against top Serie A and CL clubs in the next months, to give us a better overlook on how it compares to the 12/13 one. but i have to say, from what ive seen so far of them, they arent looking much inferior to Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio, if at all (im looking at the whole midfield and how it functionates as an unit, not comparing player to player, which is pointless considering all had different roles on the team)
last season after 23 games we had 54 points. this season we are on 51 (Napoli has 53). thats how much we declined, 3 points. we have only 3 points less than in our historical almost treble winning last season. after the clubs worst start in history. how did that happen again? oh yeah, we broke our Serie A winning streak record with 12 consecutive wins after, and this is the very important part that i want you to pay close attention to because you often like to ignore it, most of our key players returned from long injuries or just started to settle in. seriously, we had 10 new players in the team, few starters and important bench players from previous seasons were out injured, some new players were also injured, some arrived late so they didnt have a proper pre season with the rest of the team. and to top it of, the players that everyone expected to carry us on (Pogba and Morata) were fighting with bad form, still finding themselves in their new roles as leaders and trying to find chemistry with the new players. getting over such a crisis in the way we did is really impressive. if we end up winning the scudetto, which i dont doubt, then it would be a more impressive season than the 102pts one to me.
about the bolded part. yes, If we had started properly, these teams would not be in contention with us at all, because we would be on our way to break 100pts again.
you like mixing seasons up it seems. Roma historical season was in 13/14. they won 85 points (record for a 2nd placed team was Milan 88 points) and gave us a push until the last few games. 12/13 was the easy one, where our biggest challenge was Cavani, Hamsik and a bunch of amateurs wearing a Napoli shirt. Milan was also not bad that year, led by Balotelli, El Shaarawy and refs they barely managed to win 3rd place ahead of Fiorentina.
Milan in 11/12 while having a great team on paper was in big decline. not only that, most of their senators didnt even play that much due to age and injuries. you simply have to check the stats and see how much their most important players played.
Ibra and Silva were on the top 5 in both minutes and games played (among the mighty Abbiati, Abate and Nocerino). van Bommel started 22 games, while Seedorf for example started in just 14 games. among others, Nesta 16, Zambrotta 10, Ambrosini 17, Cassano 11, Gattuso 4, Inzaghi 0... but that was becuase they had football greats playing ahead like Robinho with 21 starts, Antonini 17, Bonera 17, Emanuelson 17, Boateng 15, Aquilani 14... that team gets overrated a lot due to the names they had and the fact that they should have kicked Barca out if it werent for that joke penalty (or were there 2 joke penalties?). however, that was only 2 games where they had most of their stars fit and it can not be used to judge their performances and form throughout the entire season. that team was one Ibra injury away from us winning the league comfortably few matchdays before the end.
Hold on. I think you are mixing up seasons not me (I don't disagree with your analysis btw).
2011/2012 is Conte's first season. Roma were nothing. We were competing with Milan who were reigning champs. This was not an easy season in any sense and it continues to be the most entertainment I ever had watching Juve.
2012/2013 is Conte's second season. We had napoli to compete against and a ripped apart milan. That was a walk in the park in Serie A. (Oh i now notice why you said vidal scored 15 you are right about that but one could never argue that Pirlo compromised us defensively) Thats the team that lost to Bayern.
2013/14 is Conte's last season. We had the resurgent Roma and Conte put them in their place. That was not a walk in the park at all, we were just too good in Serie A.
2014/15 is Allegri's first season which was a walk in the park in Serie A.
The current season, Napoli seem to be going to test us heavily. If we had the extra 4 points from previous seasons at this stage we would be leading and all clubs apart from Napoli would have been far away. We have almost fully made up our poor start and you are right, it took our longest winning streak ever to almost make up the weak start.
And so my point (i dont remember who it was directed at) was that Serie A now is not MUCH stronger than during Conte's time. It is only better than 2012/13 Serie.
My other point which I also dont remember who it was directed at, is that Pirlo was THE key player in his first two seasons at Juve. There is no sense comparing him to Marchisio(the current one) in terms of creativity. Pirlo made an attack of Vucinic and Quags look good and dominate FFS. I'd like to see marchisio make Pirloesque passes to fucking Matri.
2011/2012 is Conte's first season. Roma were nothing. We were competing with Milan who were reigning champs. This was not an easy season in any sense and it continues to be the most entertainment I ever had watching Juve.
2012/2013 is Conte's second season. We had napoli to compete against and a ripped apart milan. That was a walk in the park in Serie A. (Oh i now notice why you said vidal scored 15 you are right about that but one could never argue that Pirlo compromised us defensively) Thats the team that lost to Bayern.
2013/14 is Conte's last season. We had the resurgent Roma and Conte put them in their place. That was not a walk in the park at all, we were just too good in Serie A.
2014/15 is Allegri's first season which was a walk in the park in Serie A.
The current season, Napoli seem to be going to test us heavily. If we had the extra 4 points from previous seasons at this stage we would be leading and all clubs apart from Napoli would have been far away. We have almost fully made up our poor start and you are right, it took our longest winning streak ever to almost make up the weak start.
And so my point (i dont remember who it was directed at) was that Serie A now is not MUCH stronger than during Conte's time. It is only better than 2012/13 Serie.
My other point which I also dont remember who it was directed at, is that Pirlo was THE key player in his first two seasons at Juve. There is no sense comparing him to Marchisio(the current one) in terms of creativity. Pirlo made an attack of Vucinic and Quags look good and dominate FFS. I'd like to see marchisio make Pirloesque passes to fucking Matri.
correct.
but this here:
not really
its not MUCH better. but overall it is on a higher level. a lot of teams have improved.
creativity wise, yes. Pirlo is better. BUT, overall this seasons Marchisio contributes more than 12/13 Pirlo. he is running our game perfectly well, is great defensively and is a leader on the pitch. does it all really. also, Vucinic and Quag didnt dominate for us. they were very good players actually, so you shouldnt be making it out like Pirlo made them look fantastic and before that they were crap. also, we didnt have a striker score more than 10 goals under Conte other than Tevez and Llorente in his last year. Matri reached 10 in Contes 1st, and Quag was on his way to probably 10-15 goals in Contes 2nd season if he didnt get suspended for that jacket scene. Vucinic was more of a creative forward anyway. and id like to see Pirlo make Pirloesque passes to Matri too, when the opponent is defending with 10 men. also if you want to see a Pirloesque pass from Marchisio, check the Carpi game and his assist to Pogba....
but this here:
not really
its not MUCH better. but overall it is on a higher level. a lot of teams have improved.
creativity wise, yes. Pirlo is better. BUT, overall this seasons Marchisio contributes more than 12/13 Pirlo. he is running our game perfectly well, is great defensively and is a leader on the pitch. does it all really. also, Vucinic and Quag didnt dominate for us. they were very good players actually, so you shouldnt be making it out like Pirlo made them look fantastic and before that they were crap. also, we didnt have a striker score more than 10 goals under Conte other than Tevez and Llorente in his last year. Matri reached 10 in Contes 1st, and Quag was on his way to probably 10-15 goals in Contes 2nd season if he didnt get suspended for that jacket scene. Vucinic was more of a creative forward anyway. and id like to see Pirlo make Pirloesque passes to Matri too, when the opponent is defending with 10 men. also if you want to see a Pirloesque pass from Marchisio, check the Carpi game and his assist to Pogba....