Massimiliano Allegri (385 Viewers)

[Vlad]

He pretty much sucked the 1 1/2 seasons before we got him, Wolfsburg had an atriscous defensive record as well.
http://forum.juventuz.org/threads/32021-Andrea-Barzagli/page1

Look at the first few pages here, I know it's just Tuz opinions, but no one really thought of him highly in any way.

Kinda don't see a point in posting that link. For further explanation see Morata's thread, or Pereyra's, or... you get the picture. Our defense was abysmal, conceded 60 goals in two consecutive seasons, but does it mean that Chiellini was atrocious player because of it? Or maybe we lacked good organization at the back, better FBs, more protection from the middle, etc...

So? Falcao a season before this one was a brilliant player.

And I'm not in any way claiming that they were awful players or anything, they obviously had a lot ot potential (not in the sense that young players have potential), but without a competent coach it would've ended in a desaster probably. Conte did a terrific job during the season, just as Marotta did the summer before.

What is it you're debatiing here then?

 

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[Ocelot]

there was also a reason we were willing to offer him such high wages too , and we presented him here as a top player and one of our most important signings when we signed him.

Conte deserves credit for what he did that season, he was probably the most important part of the team that season, but it definitely wasnt some sort of miracle where he did all the work with an average squad and finished players like Hist is trying to present it...

Of course. That's why trying to present it as exclusively Conte's or exclusively Marotta's work is nonsense.

 

[Ocelot]

there was also a reason we were willing to offer him such high wages too , and we presented him here as a top player and one of our most important signings when we signed him.

Conte deserves credit for what he did that season, he was probably the most important part of the team that season, but it definitely wasnt some sort of miracle where he did all the work with an average squad and finished players like Hist is trying to present it...

Of course. That's why trying to present it as exclusively Conte's or exclusively Marotta's work is nonsense.

 

[Vlad]

there was also a reason we were willing to offer him such high wages too , and we presented him here as a top player and one of our most important signings when we signed him.

Conte deserves credit for what he did that season, he was probably the most important part of the team that season, but it definitely wasnt some sort of miracle where he did all the work with an average squad and finished players like Hist is trying to present it...

And we signed Pirlo way before the agreement was struck with Conte, obviously managment held him in high regards. Kudos to Conte for getting the best out of him, but he'd have to be pretty incompetent coach (Del Neri style) to ruin Pirlo, injury free of course.

 

[Vlad]

there was also a reason we were willing to offer him such high wages too , and we presented him here as a top player and one of our most important signings when we signed him.

Conte deserves credit for what he did that season, he was probably the most important part of the team that season, but it definitely wasnt some sort of miracle where he did all the work with an average squad and finished players like Hist is trying to present it...

And we signed Pirlo way before the agreement was struck with Conte, obviously managment held him in high regards. Kudos to Conte for getting the best out of him, but he'd have to be pretty incompetent coach (Del Neri style) to ruin Pirlo, injury free of course.

 

[Ocelot]

What is it you're debatiing here then?

That both this:

second delusion.
conte never built the team. marotta did.

First delusion: Marchisio, Pirlo and Barzagli were all hopeless players before Conte came along.

is just wrong.

And that your evaluations of Barzagli, Pirlo and Marchisio before 2012 were a bit generous

 

[Ocelot]

What is it you're debatiing here then?

That both this:

second delusion.
conte never built the team. marotta did.

First delusion: Marchisio, Pirlo and Barzagli were all hopeless players before Conte came along.

is just wrong.

And that your evaluations of Barzagli, Pirlo and Marchisio before 2012 were a bit generous

 

[Vlad]

That both this:




is just wrong.

And that your evaluations of Barzagli, Pirlo and Marchisio before 2012 were a bit generous

Never believed that players could suddenly forget to play, but their form might variate depending on circumstances, injuries, manager, etc... If Barzagli played like a champion and was still in decent footballing years, prime as far as defenders are concerned, he was bound to regain his form with the right guy on the bench, more so as he's always hard working, not some lazy fat ass deuche (Adriano) looking only to collect his paycheck. Pirlo was natural talent, for him it was enough to remain free of injuries. Basically I'm not debating Conte's contribution, but blatant underestimation of our players' qualities prior to his coming here and on top of that neglecting some very good additions like Licht, Vucinic or Vidal. According to Hist quality of our personnel was similar to this year's Inter's or Milan's. Ludicrous

 

[Vlad]

That both this:




is just wrong.

And that your evaluations of Barzagli, Pirlo and Marchisio before 2012 were a bit generous

Never believed that players could suddenly forget to play, but their form might variate depending on circumstances, injuries, manager, etc... If Barzagli played like a champion and was still in decent footballing years, prime as far as defenders are concerned, he was bound to regain his form with the right guy on the bench, more so as he's always hard working, not some lazy fat ass deuche (Adriano) looking only to collect his paycheck. Pirlo was natural talent, for him it was enough to remain free of injuries. Basically I'm not debating Conte's contribution, but blatant underestimation of our players' qualities prior to his coming here and on top of that neglecting some very good additions like Licht, Vucinic or Vidal. According to Hist quality of our personnel was similar to this year's Inter's or Milan's. Ludicrous

 

[Xperd]

No.

And there was a reason why Pirlo was getting let go, the seasons prior he was pretty much horrible at times, and riddled with injuries.

Marchisio wasn't bad, but far from the level he reached with Conte.



And why the hell do people feel the need to give credit to exclusively one party, be it Marotta or Conte, anyways? It's obvious as heck that it was a joint effort, and I can guarantee that posts like these wouldn't be made were Conte still our coach. To the contrary, when he still was, people were downpllaying Marotta's attributions all the time. If you're going to be hypocritical, at least don't be so obvious about it.

Dont know why you are even wasting your time arguing with him...

 

[Xperd]

No.

And there was a reason why Pirlo was getting let go, the seasons prior he was pretty much horrible at times, and riddled with injuries.

Marchisio wasn't bad, but far from the level he reached with Conte.



And why the hell do people feel the need to give credit to exclusively one party, be it Marotta or Conte, anyways? It's obvious as heck that it was a joint effort, and I can guarantee that posts like these wouldn't be made were Conte still our coach. To the contrary, when he still was, people were downpllaying Marotta's attributions all the time. If you're going to be hypocritical, at least don't be so obvious about it.

Dont know why you are even wasting your time arguing with him...

 

[Vlad]

Well, well, look what the cat dragged in, chewed, digested and threw up. Saddens me to see you reaching these degrading levels.

 

[Vlad]

Well, well, look what the cat dragged in, chewed, digested and threw up. Saddens me to see you reaching these degrading levels.

 

[Xperd]

Well, well, look what the cat dragged in, chewed, digested and threw up. Saddens me to see you reaching these degrading levels.

Actually thats what i think of you coz you used to be a very good poster before until you decided to take a turn for good and become the reverse Cronios.Repetitive and predictable so much so that it became nauseating to read your posts.
I get it though,you are just trolling i suppose,except that it is not entertaining to put it bluntly.

 

[Xperd]

Well, well, look what the cat dragged in, chewed, digested and threw up. Saddens me to see you reaching these degrading levels.

Actually thats what i think of you coz you used to be a very good poster before until you decided to take a turn for good and become the reverse Cronios.Repetitive and predictable so much so that it became nauseating to read your posts.
I get it though,you are just trolling i suppose,except that it is not entertaining to put it bluntly.

 

[KB824]

No.

And there was a reason why Pirlo was getting let go, the seasons prior he was pretty much horrible at times, and riddled with injuries.

Marchisio wasn't bad, but far from the level he reached with Conte.



And why the hell do people feel the need to give credit to exclusively one party, be it Marotta or Conte, anyways? It's obvious as heck that it was a joint effort, and I can guarantee that posts like these wouldn't be made were Conte still our coach. To the contrary, when he still was, people were downpllaying Marotta's attributions all the time. If you're going to be hypocritical, at least don't be so obvious about it.

You've been on this forum long enough to know that it can never, ever be a total team effort for the success or failures of the club. It always has to be one or the other who deserves praise/ gets crucified.

 

[KB824]

No.

And there was a reason why Pirlo was getting let go, the seasons prior he was pretty much horrible at times, and riddled with injuries.

Marchisio wasn't bad, but far from the level he reached with Conte.



And why the hell do people feel the need to give credit to exclusively one party, be it Marotta or Conte, anyways? It's obvious as heck that it was a joint effort, and I can guarantee that posts like these wouldn't be made were Conte still our coach. To the contrary, when he still was, people were downpllaying Marotta's attributions all the time. If you're going to be hypocritical, at least don't be so obvious about it.

You've been on this forum long enough to know that it can never, ever be a total team effort for the success or failures of the club. It always has to be one or the other who deserves praise/ gets crucified.

 

[Ocelot]

You've been on this forum long enough to know that it can never, ever be a total team effort for the success or failures of the club. It always has to be one or the other who deserves praise/ gets crucified.

Yeah, I know, there's usually no middle ground around these parts. Maybe even for the better, it'd be boring as hell most likely if there was.

 

[Ocelot]

You've been on this forum long enough to know that it can never, ever be a total team effort for the success or failures of the club. It always has to be one or the other who deserves praise/ gets crucified.

Yeah, I know, there's usually no middle ground around these parts. Maybe even for the better, it'd be boring as hell most likely if there was.

 

[Vlad]

Actually thats what i think of you coz you used to be a very good poster before until you decided to take a turn for good and become the reverse Cronios.Repetitive and predictable so much so that it became nauseating to read your posts.
I get it though,you are just trolling i suppose,except that it is not entertaining to put it bluntly.

There's always the ignore button you know. Do not torture yourself, but I'm inclined to believe you find it enjoyable.