out now?


  • Total voters
    166
  • Poll closed .

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,500
The biggest problem is Dybala not being able to play any other role effectively other than playing behind another striker.

It limits what Allegri can do formation wise to a 2 striker formation.

Play Dybala too deep and he's not as good so it always leaves us with 2 cm's and not 3
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,198
The biggest problem is Dybala not being able to play any other role effectively other than playing behind another striker.

It limits what Allegri can do formation wise to a 2 striker formation.

Play Dybala too deep and he's not as good so it always leaves us with 2 cm's and not 3
He can also play striker, he played that position frequently at Palermo. He could be a false 9, like Messi at Barca under Pep, flanked by two wingers (Costa/Berna/Cuadrado/Pjaca).

But that would require us to drop our €90 million record signing.

Another option would be to play a diamond formation, or 4-3-1-2
 

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,500
He can also play striker, he played that position frequently at Palermo. He could be a false 9, like Messi at Barca under Pep, flanked by two wingers (Costa/Berna/Cuadrado/Pjaca).

But that would require us to drop our €90 million record signing.

Another option would be to play a diamond formation, or 4-3-1-2
That is another problem as well. I don't think the management would ever consider that so I didn't bother mentioning it
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,198
This argument about him lacking an attacking plan and how that would change anything is bull$#@!. Wanna see an attacking unit work? Have World class attackers. A coach picks what position and which areas should their players be what but once the game is on it all goes out the window.
This is nonsense honestly.

Tottenham, Monaco and Dortmund do not have better forward players than we do right now (Higuain, Costa, Dybala, Berna, Mandzu, Cuadrado); and yet they score far more goals. This is because Pochettino, Jardim and Tuchel have a clear gameplan going forward. Allegri does not, he just relies on individuals.

As good as our defense it, it has been proven that we cannot stop the best attacks from scoring goals. Barca scored 3 goals against us in 2015, Bayern scored 4 in 2016, and Real scored 4 in 2017. The only way we can beat these teams is if we outscore them.

Another problem we have is that we run out of steam 30 minutes into a game. It happened against Bayern in 2016 and again in Cardiff against Real. We can press these teams for half an hour at most and then we are exhausted and just camp in our own half, until they inevitably score.

All these visible problems with our team are on the manager.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
This is nonsense honestly.

Tottenham, Monaco and Dortmund do not have better forward players than we do right now (Higuain, Costa, Dybala, Berna, Mandzu, Cuadrado); and yet they score far more goals. This is because Pochettino, Jardim and Tuchel have a clear gameplan going forward. Allegri does not, he just relies on individuals.

As good as our defense it, it has been proven that we cannot stop the best attacks from scoring goals. Barca scored 3 goals against us in 2015, Bayern scored 4 in 2016, and Real scored 4 in 2017. The only way we can beat these teams is if we outscore them.

Another problem we have is that we run out of steam 30 minutes into a game. It happened against Bayern in 2016 and again in Cardiff against Real. We can press these teams for half an hour at most and then we are exhausted and just camp in our own half, until they inevitably score.

All these visible problems with our team are on the manager.
This is plain obvious for anyone who is not on the Allegri's worshiping train. Especially the part with the pressing - 30 minutes is overly generous, it is more like 20..This team is/was build to soak up the pressure and counter-attack. And if this fails, we fail big time.Against lesser sides this rarely happens because they lose steam quite early into a game but against the big boys it has bombed many times. I do not need to look up at the stats as goals or shots per game to know that we are probably the worst team after Atletico among top 10 European teams by those accounts. Our attackers spend more time chasing the ball instead of playing with it.For me there is no doubt that Juve have to update its philosophy in order to be successful in Europe.This whole defense prowess could take you to the finals but will not win them. Since 1995 this team participated in 7 Euro finals and scored 5 goals in total, less than a goal per game and no more than 1 goal in a single match.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
64,696
This is nonsense honestly.

Tottenham, Monaco and Dortmund do not have better forward players than we do right now (Higuain, Costa, Dybala, Berna, Mandzu, Cuadrado); and yet they score far more goals. This is because Pochettino, Jardim and Tuchel have a clear gameplan going forward. Allegri does not, he just relies on individuals.
Dortmund 2016/17: 72 goals scored, 40 goals conceded.

Juventus 2016/17: 77 goals scored, 27 goals conceded.

Play attacking football, score less and concede more. Great gameplan.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
Dortmund 2016/17: 72 goals scored, 40 goals conceded.

Juventus 2016/17: 77 goals scored, 27 goals conceded.

Play attacking football, score less and concede more. Great gameplan.
Yes, if you are Dortmund. And yet they scored 28 goals in Cl with three games less than Juve. Their atack costs probably three times less than ours.
This year Allegri will not have many excuses if he does not build a solid attacking team. He has the ingredients to do it. In my 24 years as Juve supporter I have never seen so much skilful and creative players in the team - Berna, Costa, Dybala, Cuad, Higgi,Pjanic, Pjaca. I mean this is an obscene abundance for our standards. Most of the time since 2000 we have had around 2-3 really creative players in a season and they usually were Del Piero, Nedved and Camoranesi. Their deputies were hard working men but not very creative or particularly skilful. After that Tevez and Morata impressed but most of the situations were created by our midfielders.


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pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
So now people think we should copy mediocre sides like Tottenham, Dortmund and Monaco
So many clowns in this forum.
No, people want to copy Barca, Real, Milan, Bayern, Man Untd - the most successful sides in Europe for the last 20 years.
You want to bench Higuain for an overrated teenager.
Go figure out again who is the clown.

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pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
Arguing in this treat in favor of the offensive and attacking game is like trying to convince a Trump supporter in the global warming, the long term benefits of protecting the nature or that the Earth is not flat. They will die before accepting the obvious.

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Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,017
No, people want to copy Barca, Real, Milan, Bayern, Man Untd - the most successful sides in Europe for the last 20 years.
You want to bench Higuain for an overrated teenager.
Go figure out again who is the clown.

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That makes it look so much better :lol:

And Dybala is not a teenager anymore.
 

pavelnel

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2006
2,474
That makes it look so much better

And Dybala is not a teenager anymore.
Yeah, they won only 2 titles since 1999.Shame.
And I mean Kean. Do not lie blatantly. I am almost sure you said it.

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Juliano13

Senior Member
May 6, 2012
5,017
Yeah, they won only 2 titles since 1999.Shame.
And I mean Kean. Do not lie blatantly. I am almost sure you said it.

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nice
 

Nedved96

Senior Member
Sep 1, 2017
7,198
So now people think we should copy mediocre sides like Tottenham, Dortmund and Monaco :lol:
So many clowns in this forum.
I am not suggesting that we should copy those sides. What I'm saying is that our lack of goals is inexcusable given our talent going forward.

- Jupp Heynckes' Bayern Munchen in 2013 put 7 past Barcelona over two legs.
- Ancelotti's Real Madrid put 5 past Bayern and 4 past Atletico.
- I don't even need to talk about Barca in 2015. MSN scored for fun.
- Zidane's Real Madrid has broken the world record for most consecutive games with at least 1 goal scored.

It's a fact that every CL winner in the past 5 years has been unstoppable going forward. None of these teams were defensive in any way. In fact, in 2016/17 Real Madrid kept only a single clean sheet in their entire CL campaign.

Juventus under Allegri has two clear flaws that have been exposed time and time again when facing big sides:

1) We do not score anywhere near enough goals as Allegri doesn't actually how to set up an attack.
2) We cannot attack for more than 30 minutes without running out of breathe and camping in our own half.

Football is evolving. If Juventus ever want to win the Champions League again, we need to prioritize fast, flowing, attacking football over our defensive and cautious approach. Our current brand of football will never win the CL.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
That's your hypothesis based on absolutely nothing. Allegri has denied this.
I based it on Allegri calling him a dickhead on camera and telling him to fuck off then benching him for a very important champions league game. How can anyone in their right mind think it is a coincidence Bonucci was kicked to the curb. Why wouldn't he deny it? I'm sure it was much worse than they would tell the media and fans. None of his teammates came out and said the club was wrong to sell him.
 

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