Mario Lemina (4 Viewers)

[juve103423]

Marchisio is terribly overrated in here. Yes hes italian and our own youth product, but what does he actually do on the pitch? He is a fine player, stable and knows our game. But he can easily be replaced and should be, if we want to take our game a level up.

 

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[JuveJay]

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Did you check his IP or use of VPN?

 

[zizinho]

Marchisio is terribly overrated in here. Yes hes italian and our own youth product, but what does he actually do on the pitch? He is a fine player, stable and knows our game. But he can easily be replaced and should be, if we want to take our game a level up.

he had 3 goals and 8 assists (tied as most in Juve) last season and was our best midfielder together with Pogba whole season. not exactly a player that does nothing and should be replaced if we want to take our game a level up

 

[juve103423]

This season 0 goals 1 assist? He is not getting younger. Now might be a good time to earn some cash to improve our mid. Only thing is that he is our only useful homegrown player. I know everyone is fapping for him in here, but take a look at his play. He is one of the reasons we sometimes are fucked against strong opposition, loosing possesion and domination of the game. He is constantly looking for backpasses and to get rid of the ball as soon as possible. With his "amazing" passing skills he should not always play it back to Bonnuci for him just to clear the ball. A DM or "regista" should grow some balls and take responsibility, distribute the ball, dictate play. A thing we havent seen Marchisio do and never will. It is not a coincidence that we saw an unstable Hernanes step on and change the rythm of the game against Bayern. Even though he has been through a shitstorm of hate from fans, he took responsibility and played a positive game, not afraid, not a ghost hiding from the ball. We need a strong passer, aggresive defender and leader to play that holding mid role. There are so many I would rather have than Marchisio. Give me even a fuckface like Nainggolan! If we wanna dominate we will have no room for pussies.

 

[zizinho]

this season he has a different role

 

[Hist]

Marchisio is terribly overrated in here. Yes hes italian and our own youth product, but what does he actually do on the pitch? He is a fine player, stable and knows our game. But he can easily be replaced and should be, if we want to take our game a level up.

Marchisio's influence is not in terms of goals and assists. He strings the midfield together. He makes himself available for the other players when they are under pressure, they give the ball to him and he distributes it. His passing range and his movement without the ball are his main qualities in the regista role and he has been doing that job very well very consistently. His ability to win the ball is an added bonus.

Marchisio has no replacement because no one in our current midfield can do this job as good as he does. Hernanes has passing range but his movement without the ball is terrible compared to marchisio. Sturaro can win the ball but his passing range is very limited, he is not calm in possession and his movement without the ball is terrible. If Pogba takes that role, his attacking talents would go to waste and again he doesn't make himself available the way marchisio does. No one on our roster has this combo of skills (a wide passing range, calmness and confidence in possession, the movement that makes him available to others).

Marchisio does it very consistently too. Part of that is also because he does not try the spectacular. He keeps things simple and so you will rarely see him making mistakes. Pirlo in comparison always tried to do the spectacular when escaping pressure using his smooth twists and turns and by trying far more penetrating passes that can register assists. The trade off was that Pirlo will sometimes lose possession when his twist or his thru ball doesn't work. Marchisio doesn't try these things as often and lets Pogba and the others take the offensive flag completely.

So marchisio is indespensable because he is the only one in our squad that has the right combo of skills for the regista role and can exhibit those skills reliably and consistently. That regista role is integral to the functioning of our midfield especially in games where we are supposed to dominate possession. Until we buy another reliable regista we will have to hope he stays fit.

 

[PedroFlu]

I'm not the biggest fan of Marchisio as a box to box CM. Excluding the 11-12 season when he was extraordinary, and great the season after, all other seasons he played the position he was more ordinary - just good enough - than great.

However, I'm a huge fan of him as a DM. He is one of the best of the world at that position. Great technique, passing with both feet, speed, agility, got tough. But he needs to be fully rested in order to play at the highest level, since you can see this position requires him to do some nonsense amount of running, covering sides. This season, Allegri ran him into the ground, so he played tired a lot of times.

This is where Lemina goes in. This guy has world class potential as a DM, not sure about CM. The talent is absolutely there. Questionmarks are his health (he's young though, I don't think it will be a permanent problem) and mainly his mind (is he ambitious and disciplined enough to keep his focus 100% of the time?). If he's mentally prepared, this guy will be huge.

Next season I would love to see Marchisio getting rest often and Lemina being constantly used, mainly as a DM.

So the position is settled. The CM position is the one which will impose the huge challenge to Marotta. Not only he has to replace Pogba (actually impossible to find a CM as good as him), but he needs to improve the other CM position and sign a player who will at least fight for the position with Khedira as a starter.

 

[juve103423]

Marchisio's influence is not in terms of goals and assists. He strings the midfield together. He makes himself available for the other players when they are under pressure, they give the ball to him and he distributes it. His passing range and his movement without the ball are his main qualities in the regista role and he has been doing that job very well very consistently. His ability to win the ball is an added bonus.

Marchisio has no replacement because no one in our current midfield can do this job as good as he does. Hernanes has passing range but his movement without the ball is terrible compared to marchisio. Sturaro can win the ball but his passing range is very limited, he is not calm in possession and his movement without the ball is terrible. If Pogba takes that role, his attacking talents would go to waste and again he doesn't make himself available the way marchisio does. No one on our roster has this combo of skills (a wide passing range, calmness and confidence in possession, the movement that makes him available to others).

Marchisio does it very consistently too. Part of that is also because he does not try the spectacular. He keeps things simple and so you will rarely see him making mistakes. Pirlo in comparison always tried to do the spectacular when escaping pressure using his smooth twists and turns and by trying far more penetrating passes that can register assists. The trade off was that Pirlo will sometimes lose possession when his twist or his thru ball doesn't work. Marchisio doesn't try these things as often and lets Pogba and the others take the offensive flag completely.

So marchisio is indespensable because he is the only one in our squad that has the right combo of skills for the regista role and can exhibit those skills reliably and consistently. That regista role is integral to the functioning of our midfield especially in games where we are supposed to dominate possession. Until we buy another reliable regista we will have to hope he stays fit.

I know that we would like to think that goals and assists are non of Marchisios responsibilities. But the responsibilities you say are his, he is not fully living up to in my opinion. In my opinion, you also cant have the luxuary of fielding a player, in a freaking 5-3-2/3-5-2 (dependent on if Licht and Evra are playing) formation who is just supposed to cover terrain and distribute backpasses. A reason to play with 3 at the back is to be able to have an advantage when on the ball, distributing it from the back, we dont need a Marchisio to step back and playing as the 4th defender. However if Marchisio did his job well, then it would be okay. But he is HIDING and rarely making himself available after just having made a backpass. He is insecure on the ball when we are under pressure from strong teams and he is prone to mistakes. We have let ourselves tell that he has a holy role on this team, and that his job just requires him to make backpasses and jog around in the middle. We are not Sassoulo, we are Juventus, we need more than that. He had 2 good seasons where he was very agile, brave, dynamic, that was a very useful Marchisio. The one playing now could be replaced easily. I agree that we currently dont have many players to take over his role, but that is due to Hernanes, Lemina, Asamoah, Pereyra and Khedira lacking fitness and time on the field. That have made Marchisio important this season.

 

[il brutto]

This season 0 goals 1 assist? He is not getting younger. Now might be a good time to earn some cash to improve our mid. Only thing is that he is our only useful homegrown player. I know everyone is fapping for him in here, but take a look at his play. He is one of the reasons we sometimes are $#@!ed against strong opposition, loosing possesion and domination of the game. He is constantly looking for backpasses and to get rid of the ball as soon as possible. With his "amazing" passing skills he should not always play it back to Bonnuci for him just to clear the ball. A DM or "regista" should grow some balls and take responsibility, distribute the ball, dictate play. A thing we havent seen Marchisio do and never will. It is not a coincidence that we saw an unstable Hernanes step on and change the rythm of the game against Bayern. Even though he has been through a $#@!storm of hate from fans, he took responsibility and played a positive game, not afraid, not a ghost hiding from the ball. We need a strong passer, aggresive defender and leader to play that holding mid role. There are so many I would rather have than Marchisio. Give me even a $#@!face like Nainggolan! If we wanna dominate we will have no room for pussies.

Okay you have clearly never watched us play. Everything you just wrote is so stupid that you really deserve some kind of award for it. Here you go

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Okay you have clearly never watched us play. Everything you just wrote is so stupid that you really deserve some kind of award for it. Here you go

Can't you tell he's a troll? ProMoggi...

 

[il brutto]

Can't you tell he's a troll? ProMoggi...

You never know with the people on here. Some of the most weird ones seem to be dead serious.

Well at least I gave him an award for trolling

 

[Hist]

I know that we would like to think that goals and assists are non of Marchisios responsibilities. But the responsibilities you say are his, he is not fully living up to in my opinion. In my opinion, you also cant have the luxuary of fielding a player, in a freaking 5-3-2/3-5-2 (dependent on if Licht and Evra are playing) formation who is just supposed to cover terrain and distribute backpasses. A reason to play with 3 at the back is to be able to have an advantage when on the ball, distributing it from the back, we dont need a Marchisio to step back and playing as the 4th defender. However if Marchisio did his job well, then it would be okay. But he is HIDING and rarely making himself available after just having made a backpass. He is insecure on the ball when we are under pressure from strong teams and he is prone to mistakes. We have let ourselves tell that he has a holy role on this team, and that his job just requires him to make backpasses and jog around in the middle. We are not Sassoulo, we are Juventus, we need more than that. He had 2 good seasons where he was very agile, brave, dynamic, that was a very useful Marchisio. The one playing now could be replaced easily. I agree that we currently dont have many players to take over his role, but that is due to Hernanes, Lemina, Asamoah, Pereyra and Khedira lacking fitness and time on the field. That have made Marchisio important this season.

You misunderstood what I meant. Marchisio's job is not to be a ball winner and passing it back to the defense. He has Pirlo's job which was to make himself available when other midfielders or defenders are pressured so they give him the ball. and then to be calm and composed on the ball and spray it to another player. He strings the midfield together and the midfield with the defense just like Pirlo did.

I think if a player can take over from Pirlo (greatest regista of all time) without reducing our team's possession game then he has done brilliantly. Sure he doesn't do the spectacular stuff that Pirlo did and is not as good on the ball, but he more than makes up for that with his ball winning (something Pirlo did not do). Pirlo's job was not to assist but to distribute and that is while bonnucci too was distributing albeit from all the way back. Bonnucci cant do it on his own from back there. Think Alonso for another example.

A huge star with the most key role in the 3-5-2 has declined/left and marchisio managed to take his role without compromising the quality of the team's possession game in any substantial way and might have even improved the team defensively. That doesn't strike me as someone who is doing bad or okay.

and again, all the injured folk do not have the skills to fit the pirlo role. They either lack passing range (asa, sturaru), the movement (all of them), or the comfort in possession (all of them). We need to buy a player with those skills (a modric or alonso type but young)

 

[juve103423]

Okay you have clearly never watched us play. Everything you just wrote is so stupid that you really deserve some kind of award for it. Here you go

Whatever bro, if you dont have anything intelligent to say, why fucking bother, get a life really. My statements might be harsh, but they are not far from reality if not reality. If you have got anything intelligent to say then go ahead, but I dont expect anything from you so dont worry.

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You misunderstood what I meant. Marchisio's job is not to be a ball winner and passing it back to the defense. He has Pirlo's job which was to make himself available when other midfielders or defenders are pressured so they give him the ball. and then to be calm and composed on the ball and spray it to another player. He strings the midfield together and the midfield with the defense just like Pirlo did.

I think if a player can take over from Pirlo (greatest regista of all time) without reducing our team's possession game then he has done brilliantly. Sure he doesn't do the spectacular stuff that Pirlo did and is not as good on the ball, but he more than makes up for that with his ball winning (something Pirlo did not do). Pirlo's job was not to assist but to distribute and that is while bonnucci too was distributing albeit from all the way back. Bonnucci cant do it on his own from back there. Think Alonso for another example.

A huge star with the most key role in the 3-5-2 has declined/left and marchisio managed to take his role without compromising the quality of the team's possession game in any substantial way and might have even improved the team defensively. That doesn't strike me as someone who is doing bad or okay.

and again, all the injured folk do not have the skills to fit the pirlo role. They either lack passing range (asa, sturaru), the movement (all of them), or the comfort in possession (all of them). We need to buy a player with those skills (a modric or alonso type but young)

First in bold:
That is a very narrow job description. I know what people here think is Marchisios role, but that is the most limited role ever. Especially when he actually doesnt string anything together, but passes back and puts our team under pressure many times. He is not calm on the ball. He is not comfortable with it. I totally disagree!

And the argument that hey, we are still winning even after Pirlo left us, then Marchisio must be doing good, that doesnt really hold. There are too many variables involved here, new players, new system etc. And Marchisio is not even that great at winning balls back, even if that would be his major task as a DM! Look what Vidal, Allan, Nainggolan does for their teams. Thats winning the ball back. Marchisio is not a threat in any way, he is passive, he is padding. Thats why he is of no use when we are against strong teams. It is like playing 10 against 11.

Marchisio is okay for this team currently. He does an okay job, without leaving us in too much trouble due to the quality of our team compared to most of our opponents, but he is a weak part of our chain, together with Lichtsteiner and Evra, when they are playing.

 

[Hist]

Whatever bro, if you dont have anything intelligent to say, why fucking bother, get a life really. My statements might be harsh, but they are not far from reality if not reality. If you have got anything intelligent to say then go ahead, but I dont expect anything from you so dont worry.

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First in bold:
That is a very narrow job description. I know what people here think is Marchisios role, but that is the most limited role ever. Especially when he actually doesnt string anything together, but passes back and puts our team under pressure many times. He is not calm on the ball. He is not comfortable with it. I totally disagree!

And the argument that hey, we are still winning even after Pirlo left us, then Marchisio must be doing good, that doesnt really hold. There are too many variables involved here, new players, new system etc. And Marchisio is not even that great at winning balls back, even if that would be his major task as a DM! Look what Vidal, Allan, Nainggolan does for their teams. Thats winning the ball back. Marchisio is not a threat in any way, he is passive, he is padding. Thats why he is of no use when we are against strong teams. It is like playing 10 against 11.

Marchisio is okay for this team currently. He does an okay job, without leaving us in too much trouble due to the quality of our team compared to most of our opponents, but he is a weak part of our chain, together with Lichtsteiner and Evra, when they are playing.

We have completely opposite impressions of how well he strings things together and performs that role. I take the fact that we didn't notice Pirlo's absence for 2 seasons now to show that he is doing well. I also take how his absence destroyed our midfield chemistry early in the season and how things substantially improved again (not in terms of results but in terms of our midfield dynamics) after he returned from injury to indicate the difference he makes. Sure there are other variables at play but thats the case with evaluating the impact of any player.

I don't want to get into stats but I am confident the stats will back me up in terms of passing frequency, tackles, balls recovered and things like that compared to other registas in the game. Anyway lets agree to disagree on this.

 

[il brutto]

Whatever bro, if you dont have anything intelligent to say, why $#@!ing bother, get a life really. My statements might be harsh, but they are not far from reality if not reality. If you have got anything intelligent to say then go ahead, but I dont expect anything from you so dont worry.

Well you are the one trolling but I'll waste some of my time on you then.

Marchisio is actually very calm on the ball and out of our midfielders the one who always looks to get on the ball and distribute it effectively. He averages 67.5 passes per game with a 88% completion rate with 74% of them being forward passes (Pogba and Khedira have about 40 passes per game on average)

When it comes to interceptions and tackles he only loses to that tackling machine called Vidal slightly but is way ahead on interceptions, Nainggolan is not even close to him in either category. So he's defensive contribution is nothing short of amazing and vital for our team also.

Long story short Marchisio is our best defender and passer when it comes to our midfielder players all this would be very visible to you if you would actually watch our games.

 

[DAiDEViL]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2618191-claudio-marchisio-shine-again-despite-juventus-win-streak-ending-vs-bologna

...Marchisio has completely altered his own style of play to benefit the team. Earlier in his career, the Turin native was a marauding box-to-box midfielder, regularly arriving in the box to score or create goals in huge matches for the Bianconeri.

Indeed, he netted 10 times in 2011/12 and followed up with eight a year later, only to then become the holding player alongside Andrea Pirlo in former coach Antonio Conte's system. That freed up Paul Pogba and Arturo Vidal to attack more regularly, with both men better suited to that role rather than taking on defensive duties.

But last term began with Pirlo injured, and while Conte had often deployed Pogba whenever the bearded genius was absent, his successor decided a different approach was needed and opted to hand the reigns to Marchisio instead.

He never looked back, with statistics courtesy of WhoScored.com showing the ease at which he adapted to the new position. Marchisio averaged 48.8 passes per game in 2013/14 but increased that to 61.3 last season, completing an impressive 86.1 percent of those attempts while still protecting the defence behind him.

Indeed, Marchisio’s tenacious tackling meant that, by the end of the campaign, he was arguably even more effective than Pirlo, and the side has not notably missed the 2006 World Cup winner this year.

 

[Post Ironic]

Whatever bro, if you dont have anything intelligent to say, why fucking bother, get a life really. My statements might be harsh, but they are not far from reality if not reality. If you have got anything intelligent to say then go ahead, but I dont expect anything from you so dont worry.

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First in bold:
That is a very narrow job description. I know what people here think is Marchisios role, but that is the most limited role ever. Especially when he actually doesnt string anything together, but passes back and puts our team under pressure many times. He is not calm on the ball. He is not comfortable with it. I totally disagree!

And the argument that hey, we are still winning even after Pirlo left us, then Marchisio must be doing good, that doesnt really hold. There are too many variables involved here, new players, new system etc. And Marchisio is not even that great at winning balls back, even if that would be his major task as a DM! Look what Vidal, Allan, Nainggolan does for their teams. Thats winning the ball back. Marchisio is not a threat in any way, he is passive, he is padding. Thats why he is of no use when we are against strong teams. It is like playing 10 against 11.

Marchisio is okay for this team currently. He does an okay job, without leaving us in too much trouble due to the quality of our team compared to most of our opponents, but he is a weak part of our chain, together with Lichtsteiner and Evra, when they are playing.

You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and don't watch Marchisio play at all.

He's averaging 67.5 passes per 90, with 88.9% completion, 3rd in the league of those with more than 50 passes per 90.

He's also first in the league of non-goalkeepers with 8.2 long balls per 90. So let's not be ridiculous and say he only passes back. He makes more long passes than anyone in Serie A.

Defensively he makes 2.2 tackles, 2.9 interceptions, 1.1 clearance per 90. He's only dispossessed .6x per 90, and makes .7 bad touches per 90.

Yeah. Limited. My ass.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

All well and good lads...but what does this have to do with Lemina?

 

[juve103423]

You can take all the statistics you want, but at the end of the day his play speaks for itself. We are a dominating force in Serie A. In 9 out of 10 of our games, we are sitting on the opponent doing our style of tiki-taka. Ofcourse he has endless of touches to the ball and yeah passes forward (mostly to the side finding Bonucci, Chiellini or Barzagli. But I am not speaking about those games, they are already won, with or without Marchisio. Im speaking of the games where every player counts, the games where Marchisio is letting us down. He is submissive of nature, not a man, it only takes a few matches for you to notice that. I cant believe I am wasting my time with you guys actually. I also had to convince you that Cuadrado was one of our most important players, when all of you who have never touched what you would call a soccer ball yourself, were telling eachother that Cuadrado was useless because he lacked endproduct! WTF man! Watch some football and look what happens. We like to comfort eachother in here and live in a fantasy world, telling ourselfes that Marchisio is something. Just because we want him to be, as he is our true juventino! lol

So lets see if we can score some cash on him and get Lemina playing, or look for a young better player. And no, you cant compare his stats with Nainggolan or other players. Noone else is having such a spoilt job for a team as Marchisio. Other players have more responsibilities.

Regarding my old old username promoggi... promoggi during calciopoli meant pro juve I guess?