Mario Lemina (5 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

Remember when Marchisio was 4th best CM? Yeah now only Pogba better and the rest far behind Claudio.

We talking impacting starter level quality that dominates even in big games, let's not settle for less and aspire for that.

To be fair, Marchisio improved a lot in that time too (or is now finally used in the right role to be precise)

 

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[Post Ironic]

No offense to Morata, but besides one goal Vs City, that's exactly what he has done for us this CL season. Miss chances galore.

And he doesn't make that bareable by utterly dominating and scoring for fun in near record streak in the league as Gonzalo is.

What? He also scored a perfectly legit goal against Bayern, and assisted the Cuadrado goal with a brilliant run, as well as assisting the Sturaro goal in the first leg.

He also scored in the first match against Sevilla.

Let's not exaggerate. His CL record is brilliant.

The same can not be said in the slightest for Higuain who as I said has 2 goals in 20 CL knockout matches. Absolutely no excuse for that.

 

[Osman]

Assist to Cuad?

It was MOM performance for sure, and amazing assist, we talking finishing and he didn't do that. If you gonna big him up for CL scoring rate while putting down a superior player for it, then you need to acknowledge Morata hasn't scored remotely close to good level this season in same exact tourno.

 

[Post Ironic]

Assist to Cuad?

Goal against City, against Sevilla, assist against Bayern to Sturaro, assist against Bayern to Cuadrado, legit goal disallowed.

 

[duranfj]

We lost the game, when we took of Morata, and had to put on an injured Mandzukic , with our best forward, dybala, injured

In the midfield, our most consistantly good player, Marchisio, was injured, Sturaro was according to his agent not match fit, and our big promise, lemina, was not registered.



You mean we need to evaluate what we have in depth ? Sure, all for it. But our starting quality is $#@!ing ace, and that was without Marchisio.

 

[Vlad]

Goal against City, against Sevilla, assist agains Bayern to Sturaro, assist against Bayern to Cuadrado, legit goal disallowed.

Seems that he has done more in this season, poor one by some, than Higuain in his entire CL career.

 

[Osman]

What? He also scored a perfectly legit goal against Bayern, and assisted the Cuadrado goal with a brilliant run, as well as assisting the Sturaro goal in the first leg.

He also scored in the first match against Sevilla.

Let's not exaggerate. His CL record is brilliant.

The same can not be said in the slightest for Higuain who as I said has 2 goals in 20 CL knockout matches. Absolutely no excuse for that.

I forgot the Sevilla header in first game, but we talking goals and finishing in this comparison for clear reason. Assisting is important but if he is gonna be painted as the rain maker in CL he needs to have scored more then he did this season there for sure. His finishing is very inconsistent and random for most opportunities he gets to be hailed too much in this CL season.

 

[DanielSz]

Is this the Morata thread?

 

[Vlad]

Is this the Morata thread?

It can be if you want.

 

[Osman]

To be fair, Marchisio improved a lot in that time too (or is now finally used in the right role to be precise)

He did, but it doesn't change the fact he was backup then and now is possibly most key player. It's a combination of him improving but mostly the quality of our midfield diminishing compared to before. It's undeniable.

 

[Zacheryah]

Key aspect here is the relativity of a season

For how long have we mocked "eternal choker Higuain", and how much slack did i got for his goal completion ratio ?
But this season, he took off like a rocket, and is having an outstanding scoring record.


Morata had an astonishing finishing draught. Despite beeing consistantly good in everything else, he had a major draught. Despite that, absolutely clutch in the CL.



How fair is it to draw the comparison

 

[Osman]

Is this the Morata thread?

What do you wanna say about Lemina? He is a quality player we will buy. He will overtake Khedira in importance over time.

 

[duranfj]

Remember when Marchisio was 4th best CM? Yeah now only Pogba better and the rest far behind Claudio.

We talking impacting starter level quality that dominates even in big games, let's not settle for less and aspire for that.

We need at least one CM at Cheesio level.

 

[Post Ironic]

I forgot the Sevilla header in first game, but we talking goals and finishing in this comparison for clear reason. Assisting is important but if he is gonna be painted as the rain maker in CL he needs to have scored more then he did this season there for sure.

I don't disagree. As I said, I would have loved Higuain in this team, and I think the mentality and leadership here (something severely lacking at Real Madrid, and somewhat lacking at Napoli the last couple years) would have done him wonders.

He's a far superior striker currently to Morata, because he's damn consistent in the league, and that's super important... He's the only reason Napoli is in that 2nd spot this season, and they better hope he holds form through the end of the year or Roma will catch them.

But Morata has proven he is a superior CL forward. Especially in the big knockout matches. It suits his style, the wide-open play, with space to run into.

 

[Lapa]

Seems that he has done more in this season, poor one by some, than Higuain in his entire CL career.

 

[Osman]

Key aspect here is the relativity of a season

For how long have we mocked "eternal choker Higuain", and how much slack did i got for his goal completion ratio ?
But this season, he took off like a rocket, and is having an outstanding scoring record.


Morata had an astonishing finishing draught. Despite beeing consistantly good in everything else, he had a major draught. Despite that, absolutely clutch in the CL.



How fair is it to draw the comparison

The comparison shouldn't even be made for one simple reason. One player has 36 games 29 goals and the other has 40 appearances and 10 goals.

It's that simple. Nothing to compare, you both are strikers, and if you score more you are better.

 

[Post Ironic]

What do you wanna say about Lemina? He is a quality player we will buy. He will overtake Khedira in importance over time.

I'd like to see us go for a CAM (Saponara level or better), a top class CM (established already as we have enough young guys), a similar to Alex Sandro in established-vs-potential RB.

All assuming we don't sell Pogba or lose Morata.

 

[Osman]

I don't disagree. As I said, I would have loved Higuain in this team, and I think the mentality and leadership here (something severely lacking at Real Madrid, and somewhat lacking at Napoli the last couple years) would have done him wonders.

He's a far superior striker currently to Morata, because he's damn consistent in the league, and that's super important... He's the only reason Napoli is in that 2nd spot this season, and they better hope he holds form through the end of the year or Roma will catch them.

But Morata has proven he is a superior CL forward. Especially in the big knockout matches. It suits his style, the wide-open play, with space to run into.

Morata defenitely has shown he is superior CL knockout player. What I disagree with how much this says about the quality of the player. Plus how circumstantial it can be. Or how they can be judged on different standards but still compared to each other (people expect more from Higuain so any time his team fails is seen as he just him choking etc).


The only true consistent choking I have seen from Higuain was in the world Cup actually.

 

[Zacheryah]

He did, but it doesn't change the fact he was backup then and now is possibly most key player. It's a combination of him improving but mostly the quality of our midfield diminishing compared to before. It's undeniable.

Pogba+Marchisio today, is better then Pirlo+Pogba back then.

VIdal, is the current difference, as the overall quality of juventus grade vidal, is higher then any grade khedira


Pogba back then, was not remotely as good as he can be today in these huge games.

Pirlo back then was a boss, but when placed under that huge pressure, we struggled massively. Today we have an infinitly better defensive player in marchisio, who is also a top class player going forward, but not legend class like pirlo.
One of the key differences why we became good in europe, was having Marchisio and a more mature Pogba in the midfield, either in place of Pirlo, or additionally when we went 4cm last season.
Chelsea, Celtic, Bayern, were all good examples of how we could really struggle under major central pressing with Pirlo. We dont have that issue today.

What we did lost this game against bayern, was the calm to retain the ball when we are pressured and need to hold a result. But, what if we had marchisio on the bench for the second half, replace khedira with him ?


The only diminishing factor, is that we lost that aggressive Vidal pressure, who could position himself perfectly within the given tactic, press the world and beyond, but also provide instand threat when recovering or running towards the goal.



Today, if we could have 2016 Marchisio and Pogba, with 2013/2014 Vidal as the benchmark, yeah, we arent at that level today. Neither is vidal tho.

 

[Vlad]

The comparison shouldn't even be made for one simple reason. One player has 36 games 29 goals and the other has 40 appearances and 10 goals.

It's that simple. Nothing to compare, you both are strikers, and if you score more you are better.

When you score isn't negligible. Are you scoring most of your goals in the games of less importance, beginning of the season, or do you regularly find the net when it matters, in crucial part of the season. For the former the miss chokes on dicks in your man, for the latter part there's indisputable champion Morata who doesn't struggle under pressure, actually thrives under it and consequently spreads confidence among his teammates.