Mario Lemina (8 Viewers)

[Hydde]

Alot of words, but nothing of it makes any sense whatsoever.

most importantly, whos the babe in ur avy?

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@Hist

Gattuso was entirely different beat altogether. He could even take on a player and dribble past him, in addition to being phisically above 90% of players in football back then. He would consistenly provide his team with extraordinary defensive work, where he would intercept and tackle the living $#@! out of opponent's players. He was miles ahead of Stu in every aspect of the game. His presence was felt in the middle and his impact was much more tangible. I don't have issues with Stu as a part time player, but would he be fine with this role and couldn't we aim for more reliable backup for the sum allegedly floating around for him. Diawara, Donsah are just a few names that spring to my mind that would be affordable for inferior sum, but have higher potential and might command a starting spot at one point.

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I'd keep Lemina. No doubt in my mind that he's superior player.

I would try to loan him one more year if possible. His passing and decition making seems to be on point at least. We need more of that.

 

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[Vlad]

most importantly, whos the babe in ur avy?

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I would try to loan him one more year if possible. His passing and decition making seems to be on point at least. We need more of that.

Marseille likes Isla and want to keep him so straight swap?

 

[dolph]

I would never trade Lemina for sturaro. Sturaro is limited yes in that he doesn't have a wide range of different skills but he has shown very good maturity and reliability at an early age. With him, we know exactly what we will get in the short term and in the long term he could be a beast ball winner as he grows even more. Its not exactly a good analogy but Gattuso was also very limited (would never even make a good run into the box) but he perfected the one or two skills that he had. Now sturaro might never be as good as Gattuso anytime soon but he has potential to grow and is already reliable in the short term. You can't go wrong with sturaro because there is no risk involved. If he develops into a Gattuso (i know its unlikely he will get that good at defending) then you will have a world class player worthy of a starting spot, if not then at the very worst you have a reliable substitute player for life.

In contrast, with Lemina there is a risk simply because he has not proved himself at all. The sample size is extremely important in evaluating a footballer. There are countless footballers who have shown flashes of brilliance and then turned out to be mediocre. We saw that with Giovinco and De Ceglie who both looked very good at a young age and had brilliant devastating games early on much better than anything Lemina has done yet. When they did get a long run of games we saw that their devastating games were flukes and the supposed wide range of skillset that we thought they had turned out to not be there. With a small sample size you just cannot really know whether they have a wide skills set or not.

The key point is this. The process of identifying that someone has a particular skill is by measuring how often they have displayed it over a large sample of chances. How do you identify the skills possessed by a player when you have barely seen him play if possessing a skill means successfully performing it over a large sample? By definition you can't know what skills the player actually has.

Inter learned the lesson with Santon. We learned the same lesson with Amauri. He seemed like he had dribbling skills, flair and the ability to score headers. After seeing him on the pitch for a long time we realized that they were false flags and that the only skill he really had is the heading ability. Heading was the only skill he successfully performed consistently when a large sample was taken, the rest of the skills turned out to be flukes. Looking only at the initial first small sample, you would think that he had Ibra-like skills. The first few appearances are a very weak indicator of a player's skills set.

To be clear, no one is arguing that Lemina does not have goal scoring skills or penetrative passing skills. What I am arguing is that it is too soon to judge. He might demonstrate that he has a wide range of skills and he might not. We do not know because the very mechanism of measuring whether someone has a skill requires a large sample by definition.

By his first few performances the most you could say is that there are weak indications that he has a wide range of skills. With Lemina there is thus the risk of making a hasty generalization from the small sample. With Sturaro that risk is a lot smaller. Given that we all agree that either player should have a substitute role at most (for now) and that a first team material CM should be bought, therefore if we had to sell one to keep the other then we should keep Sturaro.

I am sorry but that is probably the worst post I have read on Tuz yet. Offcourse you can access a players potential after watching him in 5-6 games. Lemina was our best midfielder in the start of the season, when others including Sturaro failed miserably. He is faster, stronger, tecnically better than Sturaro. A player with much more potential. If he fullfill hes potential is another thing but if we are going to compete with teams who has a lot more money than us, then we need the High potential players rather than the reliable mediocre players even if some of them fail big time.

 

[Osman]

Yeah I cant really stress enough how nonsensical it was reading that post. Dont wanna be rude, but it was so bewildering that its hard to imagine where you should start to refute it.

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Marseille likes Isla and want to keep him so straight swap?

Why would they? We have option on him for 9.5m and they have option for Isla for 7m. Would be a loss for them to make straight swap.

 

[Hydde]

Marseille likes Isla and want to keep him so straight swap?

That would be epic. The kind of redemption the Isla deal needs. Beppe owe us that one.

 

[Osman]

most importantly, whos the babe in ur avy?

Jessica Lucas.

 

[Hist]

Alot of words, but nothing of it makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Vlad]

Yeah I cant really stress enough how nonsensical it was reading that post. Dont wanna be rude, but it was so bewildering that its hard to imagine where you should start to refute it.

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Why would they? We have option on him for 9.5m and they have option for Isla for 7m. Would be a loss for them to make straight swap.

My bad then.

 

[Hydde]

Yeah I cant really stress enough how nonsensical it was reading that post. Dont wanna be rude, but it was so bewildering that its hard to imagine where you should start to refute it.

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Why would they? We have option on him for 9.5m and they have option for Isla for 7m. Would be a loss for them to make straight swap.

in swap i think he meant switching players and covering the difference in price.

 

[Osman]

in swap i think he meant switching players and covering the difference in price.

Dont think he meant that, just not aware of the valuation/option for Isla I take it, no need to either, most of us trying to forget the existence of Isla.


Anyways its not important how its done, but both clubs can easily get both of these players just by excersizing their options or negotiating it lower/another loan etc.

 

[Hydde]

you stll havent responded my question.......whos the babe?

 

[Hist]

I am sorry but that is probably the worst post I have read on Tuz yet. Offcourse you can access a players potential after watching him in 5-6 games. Lemina was our best midfielder in the start of the season, when others including Sturaro failed miserably. He is faster, stronger, tecnically better than Sturaro. A player with much more potential. If he fullfill hes potential is another thing but if we are going to compete with teams who has a lot more money than us, then we need the High potential players rather than the reliable mediocre players even if some of them fail big time.

In a very limited way which I called a weak indicator that could very well be a fluke.


There is a difference between (a) not possessing a skill, (b) possessing a skill at some limited level (c) having potential to perfect that skill and (d) actually perfecting the skill.

The first few games can be a weak indicator of possessing a skill. You notice things like a couple of good passes a nice tackle, a goal maybe etc... After a longer run of games you get to confirm whether he has that skill or not. If in the longer run you see that most of the passes are poor or that his tackling is largely off then you say that he doesn't have it. If you see him continuing to show what the first few games indicated then you say he has the skill. If he has the skill then he has potential to improve it and to perfect it more as he goes. Thats how I understand the process of evaluating a player.

Lemina is at the first stage which are of giving an indicator of possessing some skills. In his next 10-15 games or so we can then say he has these skills at some level assuming he keeps repeating the good performances. If that level is high then we can say he has great potential to be an amazing tackler. After a few seasons of him improving on that skill we can say he has perfected it.

I say he is in the first stage of merely giving a weak indicator of having some skills because we only saw 383 minutes of him including sub appearances and things like that. I also do not think he impressed at the start of the season. Our midfield was a mess when Marchisio was not playing and he took the regista role. Even his last match I didnt see anything impressive passing-wise (the goal was great ofc). My impression of his games is that there is an early indication that he might have a good tackle on him.

Your impression of his few minutes is much better I know but even if your impression is more accurate, its only been 383 minutes divided over 6 apps. I'd give him 10 more starts at least of similar performances before I can say he has the skill.

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@Hist

Gattuso was entirely different beat altogether. He could even take on a player and dribble past him, in addition to being phisically above 90% of players in football back then. He would consistenly provide his team with extraordinary defensive work, where he would intercept and tackle the living $#@! out of opponent's players. He was miles ahead of Stu in every aspect of the game. His presence was felt in the middle and his impact was much more tangible. I don't have issues with Stu as a part time player, but would he be fine with this role and couldn't we aim for more reliable backup for the sum allegedly floating around for him. Diawara, Donsah are just a few names that spring to my mind that would be affordable for inferior sum, but have higher potential and might command a starting spot at one point.

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I'd keep Lemina. No doubt in my mind that he's superior player.

I acknowledged the difference in quality. I even said its unlikely that staruro will ever reach that level. I was only highlighting that being a limited player in terms of the range of skills can be still useful if that player becomes really good at it.

I'd also sell him for 20-25 mill ofcourse. First team needs investing and 20 mill is a good sum of money for any sub player.

 

[dolph]

In a very limited way which I called a weak indicator that could very well be a fluke.


There is a difference between (a) not possessing a skill, (b) possessing a skill at some limited level (c) having potential to perfect that skill and (d) actually perfecting the skill.

The first few games can be a weak indicator of possessing a skill. You notice things like a couple of good passes a nice tackle, a goal maybe etc... After a longer run of games you get to confirm whether he has that skill or not. If in the longer run you see that most of the passes are poor or that his tackling is largely off then you say that he doesn't have it. If you see him continuing to show what the first few games indicated then you say he has the skill. If he has the skill then he has potential to improve it and to perfect it more as he goes. Thats how I understand the process of evaluating a player.

Lemina is at the first stage which are of giving an indicator of possessing some skills. In his next 10-15 games or so we can then say he has these skills at some level assuming he keeps repeating the good performances. If that level is high then we can say he has great potential to be an amazing tackler. After a few seasons of him improving on that skill we can say he has perfected it.

I say he is in the first stage of merely giving a weak indicator of having some skills because we only saw 383 minutes of him including sub appearances and things like that. I also do not think he impressed at the start of the season. Our midfield was a mess when Marchisio was not playing and he took the regista role. Even his last match I didnt see anything impressive passing-wise (the goal was great ofc). My impression of his games is that there is an early indication that he might have a good tackle on him.

Your impression of his few minutes is much better I know but even if your impression is more accurate, its only been 383 minutes divided over 6 apps. I'd give him 10 more starts at least of similar performances before I can say he has the skill.

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I acknowledged the difference in quality. I even said its unlikely that staruro will ever reach that level. I was only highlighting that being a limited player in terms of the range of skills can be still useful if that player becomes really good at it.

I'd also sell him for 20-25 mill ofcourse. First team needs investing and 20 mill is a good sum of money for any sub player.

If we were talking about a 40 mio investment then yes I would like a larger sample size, but for the 9,5 mio mentioned he showed more than enough to warrant that price. Sturaro and Lemina playes more or less the same role and even though the sample size is not that big it is easy to see the difference in potential.

 

[Hist]

If we were talking about a 40 mio investment then yes I would like a larger sample size, but for the 9,5 mio mentioned he showed more than enough to warrant that price. Sturaro and Lemina playes more or less the same role and even though the sample size is not that big it is easy to see the difference in potential.

how is the price relevant to whether we can tell he has a skill or not? Its only after knowing that he has particular skills and knowing at what level he has them now and how far we expect him to develop can you then say x amount is too much or good enough. Adequately Judging a player's skill is logically prior to assigning him a price.

I have no idea why you insist on making up your mind now as if we have sufficient data. Who makes up their mind about a player's skills and potential in scattered 380 minutes?

The season is still long and he will get plenty of chances to show what skills he has and what kind of money the kid warrants. Be patient and reserve judgment until you have better data to back it up.

 

[dolph]

how is the price relevant to whether we can tell he has a skill or not? Its only after knowing that he has particular skills and knowing at what level he has them now and how far we expect him to develop can you then say x amount is too much or good enough. Adequately Judging a player's skill is logically prior to assigning him a price.

I have no idea why you insist on making up your mind now as if we have sufficient data. Who makes up their mind about a player's skills and potential in scattered 380 minutes?

The season is still long and he will get plenty of chances to show what skills he has and what kind of money the kid warrants. Be patient and reserve judgment until you have better data to back it up.

My initial argument was that I would take Lemina over Sturaro because I see him as a player with bigger potential. At the same time we can get him for 10 mio. while if the stories are correct we can get around 20 mio for Sturaro. So we could sell Sturaro and buy Lemina, get the superior player and make money at the same time.

And offcourse the size of the investment has everything to do with it. From the small sample size you can see that the kid has the raw talent to become a top class defensive CM. The promise alone warrants a price of 9,5 mio. If the price was was 40 mio you would want to be more certain that he could fullfill that potential.
Your argument was that you would take Sturaro over Lemina because the sample size for assessing Sturaro was bigger. That a strange way to argue.

 

[Lion]

Jessica Lucas.

sick tired of your pig like behaviour

that is daughter

 

[Fr3sh]

sick tired of your pig like behaviour

that is daughter

Talking about daughters. These people are lusting after underfed, hairy and miskeen looking daughters in the NSFW thread.

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sick tired of your pig like behaviour

that is daughter

Talking about daughters. These people are lusting after underfed, hairy and miskeen looking daughters in the NSFW thread.

 

[abrakadaver07]

Wait, we have a NSFW thread?

 

[napoleonic]

Wait, we have a NSFW thread?

the whole Tuz is just Not Safe For Work.

 

[Nicholas]

He's the Vidal replacement we needed. He's dominated in the games he's played in CM.