Couldn't have been explained better and to be honest, Moggi's statements in bashing the club is helping increase that. The players respect Moggi a lot and when he talks them down it only takes down their confidence.
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Luigi "Vergogna" Delneri (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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Not really.. We started to loose after he came out saying that Juventus was the team that has surprised him and if we continued the good performance and strong mentality we could finish high in the league.
If anything the players were going against Moggi's statement, as early on in the year Moggi said Juventus were not a good enough team and we were not loosing.
The problem is complex. The coach is part of it, but not the biggest part.
First problem: Blanc
When we got relegated to Serie B, we were all worried about financial meltdown and bankruptcy. We lost alot of money. But we did not go into bankruptcy and we continued working on the new stadium. Many, including myself, applauded the management especially Blanc for their role in that. We even started off our first season very strong and we finished 3rd. Followed by a season where we finished 2nd and had an impressive CL (considering the resources we had). Things went south afterwards.
We all threw blame here and there, but Blanc seemed to be the least of clubs figures to receive blames as he is supposed to be the only one doing "a good job".
Now I question his "good job". Every year we become worse and worse financially. Building a stadium puts alot of burden on the volt but thats not it. When we got relegated to Serie B we lost 100s of millions worth of players and cash money. We did get affected alot thanx to the strong financial base this management has inherited. The Triade ran the biggest franchise in italian football almost debt free. We had a huge income.
Now, look at us now. We don't have a proper steady income. For gods sake, 1/3 of the season passed without us having a sponsor for our away jersey. I am sorry but this is unacceptable. Relegation candidates have started the season with sponsors for their jerseys, we started with only home jersey sponsorship. This is just a single example of how Blanc is in my opinion failing.
Marotta might be the manager but Blanc has sanctioned all of his trades. He agreed on the large number of loan players we have on our squad. This summer we have to pay 50 million euros to other clubs if we want to build on our current squad. If we don't a good number of our players who we are currently relying on will leave (Quag, Pepe, Matri). We don't have such budget.
Second Problem: Management and Coaching staff
One of the main reasons Ranieri was successful is that he asked the players to play a formation they know well 4-4-2. And he continued to build on this formation which we played on with Capello and Deschamps in Serie B. Which meant, any player he's getting will be a reinforcement. Thats why we were stronger back then and more competitive.
After his dry streak he was sacked. Now I agree with firing him. With his negative mentality he lost the players trusts and he lost his trust in his players after the Chelsea game. The wrong thing was to try to pull a revolutionary change with a team that is barely functional.
We switched from 4-4-2 to 4-3-1-2. We hired Ferrara. A zero experienced coach without supporting him with an experienced management (unlike Guardula who had Barcelona's experienced management at his disposal for counseling). We lost players like Marcchionni and Nedved. We bought Diego and Melo. So basically we started to loose width in the team. Rather than reinforcing the squad, we decided to demolish and rebuild. And thats exactly what happened last season.
We fired both ferrara and Zac. We brought in Marotta and DN. Now we are back to 4-4-2, but its too late. We don't have the formation to play 4-4-2 any more. We don't have wingers. We don't have full backs. So what does the management do. Sell players like Camoranesi, Giovinco and Diego and bring only 1 attacking midfielder Krasic (+/- martinez if u really want to count him). So throughout 2 summer transfer markets we lost 4-5 players who can play as wingers and only brought in 1. Still we played 4-4-2. At the beginning with not so many injuries it was possible. But afterwards it became clear.
Third Problem: Owners:
In todays football. To be competitive you have to spend ALOT of money. Now this money has to come from somewhere. Teams like Man U (or Juventus pre 2006) were running as a successful business module and do not need additional funds from owners. Teams like Milan and Inter rely mostly on the line of credit their owners can provide. Inter for an example are running around with 300+ million euro in debt.
The owners have to decide. Do they want to invest in the team or not. If so, they need to invest as they do with Ferrari and Fiat. Appoint the right people. Follow their results closely and ask to be number 1. Once the club has been rebuilt they can slowly pull their investment money away and club can rely on its business deals to run the club as we used to. But you cannot give the club a budget and not make sure it is spent correctly.
If the owners are not that interested in the club, selling it maybe the only solution.
Never the less, I think the first two problems are the real reasons why we are here. And the third problem is a result of the first two.
If anything the players were going against Moggi's statement, as early on in the year Moggi said Juventus were not a good enough team and we were not loosing.
The problem is complex. The coach is part of it, but not the biggest part.
First problem: Blanc
When we got relegated to Serie B, we were all worried about financial meltdown and bankruptcy. We lost alot of money. But we did not go into bankruptcy and we continued working on the new stadium. Many, including myself, applauded the management especially Blanc for their role in that. We even started off our first season very strong and we finished 3rd. Followed by a season where we finished 2nd and had an impressive CL (considering the resources we had). Things went south afterwards.
We all threw blame here and there, but Blanc seemed to be the least of clubs figures to receive blames as he is supposed to be the only one doing "a good job".
Now I question his "good job". Every year we become worse and worse financially. Building a stadium puts alot of burden on the volt but thats not it. When we got relegated to Serie B we lost 100s of millions worth of players and cash money. We did get affected alot thanx to the strong financial base this management has inherited. The Triade ran the biggest franchise in italian football almost debt free. We had a huge income.
Now, look at us now. We don't have a proper steady income. For gods sake, 1/3 of the season passed without us having a sponsor for our away jersey. I am sorry but this is unacceptable. Relegation candidates have started the season with sponsors for their jerseys, we started with only home jersey sponsorship. This is just a single example of how Blanc is in my opinion failing.
Marotta might be the manager but Blanc has sanctioned all of his trades. He agreed on the large number of loan players we have on our squad. This summer we have to pay 50 million euros to other clubs if we want to build on our current squad. If we don't a good number of our players who we are currently relying on will leave (Quag, Pepe, Matri). We don't have such budget.
Second Problem: Management and Coaching staff
One of the main reasons Ranieri was successful is that he asked the players to play a formation they know well 4-4-2. And he continued to build on this formation which we played on with Capello and Deschamps in Serie B. Which meant, any player he's getting will be a reinforcement. Thats why we were stronger back then and more competitive.
After his dry streak he was sacked. Now I agree with firing him. With his negative mentality he lost the players trusts and he lost his trust in his players after the Chelsea game. The wrong thing was to try to pull a revolutionary change with a team that is barely functional.
We switched from 4-4-2 to 4-3-1-2. We hired Ferrara. A zero experienced coach without supporting him with an experienced management (unlike Guardula who had Barcelona's experienced management at his disposal for counseling). We lost players like Marcchionni and Nedved. We bought Diego and Melo. So basically we started to loose width in the team. Rather than reinforcing the squad, we decided to demolish and rebuild. And thats exactly what happened last season.
We fired both ferrara and Zac. We brought in Marotta and DN. Now we are back to 4-4-2, but its too late. We don't have the formation to play 4-4-2 any more. We don't have wingers. We don't have full backs. So what does the management do. Sell players like Camoranesi, Giovinco and Diego and bring only 1 attacking midfielder Krasic (+/- martinez if u really want to count him). So throughout 2 summer transfer markets we lost 4-5 players who can play as wingers and only brought in 1. Still we played 4-4-2. At the beginning with not so many injuries it was possible. But afterwards it became clear.
Third Problem: Owners:
In todays football. To be competitive you have to spend ALOT of money. Now this money has to come from somewhere. Teams like Man U (or Juventus pre 2006) were running as a successful business module and do not need additional funds from owners. Teams like Milan and Inter rely mostly on the line of credit their owners can provide. Inter for an example are running around with 300+ million euro in debt.
The owners have to decide. Do they want to invest in the team or not. If so, they need to invest as they do with Ferrari and Fiat. Appoint the right people. Follow their results closely and ask to be number 1. Once the club has been rebuilt they can slowly pull their investment money away and club can rely on its business deals to run the club as we used to. But you cannot give the club a budget and not make sure it is spent correctly.
If the owners are not that interested in the club, selling it maybe the only solution.
Never the less, I think the first two problems are the real reasons why we are here. And the third problem is a result of the first two.
I'm a firm believer in spending money to make money in most cases. We are spending a lot of money on this stadium to make more of it in the long run. Building a business empire takes time, no one really has the money they would like to get it going all the time. A good business makes small investments here and there to build something sustainable. That's what we are doing and it's going to take patience. I think we will be OK in the long run, we just need to sit tight and hopefully the club comes up with some good signings to get our feet wet again the CL.
Hopefully before Piazon retires...
Hopefully before Piazon retires...
I dont think it is the ownership as we have spent money recently and they are involved alot with the club. It is bad decisions on transfers and a lack of an elite level coach. If we get rid of the quantity over quality transfer technique and appointed a top coach we would be so much better off. Like at this rate we will struggle for a few years and not get CL. But if we signed 3 elite level players and took up the option to buy on only Aquilani and Quag in addition to having a excellent coach we would get CL.
If Jose Mourinho, Lippi or Capello was our coach and we got a few quality players (Benzema, Bale, Robben.. etc) our future would be bright.
True that the owners are to blame as well and they are getting their share of the blame. Del neri/marotta are getting more heat because they are in the same situation as ciro/secco and other failures before them,and that's the point.The other were fired and samp parents were hired because they were expected to do better and they were just as bad. Del neri froze like a deer in front of headlights and refuses to be flexible.
Marotta.The transfer policy is in deep shit.Well,more than half of the people he brings in are on loan with an outrageous price for the buy option,aqua was brilliant in the early part of the season,so were most of the loaned players,but quag's injury along with some bad decisions got our form in a dump and the feeling of this team being just a temporary one while we "searched" for solid options crept into them.The player's form is affected if at least halfway through the season he gets to know the club he is playing for is at least sure about retaining him.
How is our team supposed to gel well and have a chemistry on the pitch when there is a panic buy every other month and the new guy get thrown in right into the vital positions.And the loaned players who were playing very well and now are not sure if they are part of the long term plan if marotta even had one.
Scoring goals was not much of a problem to us yet when we failed to sign dzeko we failed to get the defence sorted and kept experimenting on the 2 of the 442.
The whole atmosphere is affecting the others like krasic,buffon,GC and bonucci who really have no excuse for their bad form.
Marotta.The transfer policy is in deep shit.Well,more than half of the people he brings in are on loan with an outrageous price for the buy option,aqua was brilliant in the early part of the season,so were most of the loaned players,but quag's injury along with some bad decisions got our form in a dump and the feeling of this team being just a temporary one while we "searched" for solid options crept into them.The player's form is affected if at least halfway through the season he gets to know the club he is playing for is at least sure about retaining him.
How is our team supposed to gel well and have a chemistry on the pitch when there is a panic buy every other month and the new guy get thrown in right into the vital positions.And the loaned players who were playing very well and now are not sure if they are part of the long term plan if marotta even had one.
Scoring goals was not much of a problem to us yet when we failed to sign dzeko we failed to get the defence sorted and kept experimenting on the 2 of the 442.
The whole atmosphere is affecting the others like krasic,buffon,GC and bonucci who really have no excuse for their bad form.
Whenever I read what this man has to say all I can see are excuses, excuses and more excuses. Its Calciopoli, injuries, the referees, suspensions bla bla bla. The worst excuses were probably when he said that we're unlucky cuz we play teams that are in good form or that we haven't gotten to the Coppa Italia final in the last few years anyway so who cares?
Hmmm it depends, there have been genuine reasons, but there comes a point where you have to deal with it.
We can't deal with shit like Morganti, but with injuries etc, we have had them for three years and have to be able to take a few at some point. Maybe not 5 months into year 1 of Marotta and Delneri but soon.
We can't deal with shit like Morganti, but with injuries etc, we have had them for three years and have to be able to take a few at some point. Maybe not 5 months into year 1 of Marotta and Delneri but soon.
