baggio on the other hand achieved a lot of success with his country lol, try again
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Lionel Messi (30 Viewers)
- Thread starter JCK
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Huh? Pretty sure he did "carry" his team to the final. If by carry we mean being the player that had the biggest impact on his teams performance. Was even awarded the best player of the tournament award for his exploits.Not sure why people feel the need to delude themselves with this stuff. It's okay to give credit to players when they perform great. I promise you that it'll take nothing away from your favourite player.
Huh? Pretty sure he did "carry" his team to the final. If by carry we mean being the player that had the biggest impact on his teams performance. Was even awarded the best player of the tournament award for his exploits.Not sure why people feel the need to delude themselves with this stuff. It's okay to give credit to players when they perform great. I promise you that it'll take nothing away from your favourite player.
Even Ronaldos euro win i would never claim that he carried portugal to the euros he did step up in some vital moments tho and scored goals in the group stages like messi but he also was the match winner in the semi finals with a goal and a assist so he got them to the final he can say.
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Of course he looked embarrassed, they had just lost the World cup final so some individual award won't warm much at that point, but he had objectively an amazing tournament. Of course there were other players who also performed well in that World cup. However it's really hard to make an argument against giving that award to Messi considering the level he performed in that tournament. I would personally prefer the award to be given to a player from the winning team if only for the reason that we wouldn't have to look at the awkwardness of the presentation that you referred to in your post.
I seriously think you need to re-watch some of those Argentina games. Also bringing up the silly Ronaldo comparison shows where your motivations lie.
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Absolutely bonkers how difficult it can be to acknowledge a player had a great tournament. Obviously no team will get to a WC final with only one player contributing. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that you need your defence in top form as well to make it far in these tournaments. The use of the word "carry" is generally a silly way to describe a player contributing massively to his teams success.
I seriously think you need to re-watch some of those Argentina games. Also bringing up the silly Ronaldo comparison shows where your motivations lie.
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Ronaldo comparsion wasnt silly at all it was just to show that even for him i wouldnt even i dare claim that he carried portugal to there euros but being the match winner in the semi final and actually getting he's team to the final trump's anything messi did at that world cup.
Even Higgy producued some magic against belguim in quarters finals to get them through and yet he constantly gets crapped on for losing messi he's world cup.
Round of 16 they played switzerland and won 1-0
Quarter finals they played belguim and again won 1-0 thanks to some magic from higgy
Semi finals they played neatherlands and drew 0-0 and won on pens
Final they lost 1-0 with both messi and higgy missing sitters.
But Messi was the one carrying them to the finals and not there defence
.
Even Higgy producued some magic against belguim in quarters finals to get them through and yet he constantly gets crapped on for losing messi he's world cup.
Round of 16 they played switzerland and won 1-0
Quarter finals they played belguim and again won 1-0 thanks to some magic from higgy
Semi finals they played neatherlands and drew 0-0 and won on pens
Final they lost 1-0 with both messi and higgy missing sitters.
But Messi was the one carrying them to the finals and not there defence
.
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Context is important. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. We were talking about some members lambasting Messi because he's small - I highlighted how three of my favorite players aren't exactly giants.
I like Baggio for his character and charisma - he was great for Juventus and Italy, but you're probably too young to remember that. Perhaps you were still sucking on your mama's titties back in 94 and 98
But just to debunk your theory, Baggio guided Italy, almost singlehandedly, to the World Cup final in 94, missing out on the title to a very strong Brazil side and only on penalties. In 90, he exploded onto the scene with that wonder goal against the Czechs, and was a pivotal member of the squad as Italy, once again, lost on penalties, in the semis to Argentina. In 98, an ageing Baggio was still fundamental as Italy almost upset the heavy favorites, France, in the QF, once again losing on penalties. In 3 world cups, he has only missed out on the biggest prize due to losing on penalties.
Now, let's look at Messi's record as a member of the much vaunted Argentina squad.
2006: A young Messi scored a grand total of one goal. It was his first World Cup, so I'm gonna cut him some slack. He was still young and by no means a guaranteed starter.
2010: 0 goals and a 4-0 humbling in the QFs against Germany.
2014: Scores 4 goals in the group stages, helping his team advance as group winners. Goes invisible in the knockouts, 0 goals in 4 games.
2018: 1 goal in the group stage as Argentina almost get eliminated by Nigeria. In the knockouts France put 4 past them, but Argentina also score 3, 0 of them by Messi.
I like Baggio for his character and charisma - he was great for Juventus and Italy, but you're probably too young to remember that. Perhaps you were still sucking on your mama's titties back in 94 and 98
But just to debunk your theory, Baggio guided Italy, almost singlehandedly, to the World Cup final in 94, missing out on the title to a very strong Brazil side and only on penalties. In 90, he exploded onto the scene with that wonder goal against the Czechs, and was a pivotal member of the squad as Italy, once again, lost on penalties, in the semis to Argentina. In 98, an ageing Baggio was still fundamental as Italy almost upset the heavy favorites, France, in the QF, once again losing on penalties. In 3 world cups, he has only missed out on the biggest prize due to losing on penalties.
Now, let's look at Messi's record as a member of the much vaunted Argentina squad.
2006: A young Messi scored a grand total of one goal. It was his first World Cup, so I'm gonna cut him some slack. He was still young and by no means a guaranteed starter.
2010: 0 goals and a 4-0 humbling in the QFs against Germany.
2014: Scores 4 goals in the group stages, helping his team advance as group winners. Goes invisible in the knockouts, 0 goals in 4 games.
2018: 1 goal in the group stage as Argentina almost get eliminated by Nigeria. In the knockouts France put 4 past them, but Argentina also score 3, 0 of them by Messi.
Context is important. Comprehension clearly isn't your forte. We were talking about some members lambasting Messi because he's small - I highlighted how three of my favorite players aren't exactly giants.
I like Baggio for his character and charisma - he was great for Juventus and Italy, but you're probably too young to remember that. Perhaps you were still sucking on your mama's titties back in 94 and 98
But just to debunk your theory, Baggio guided Italy, almost singlehandedly, to the World Cup final in 94, missing out on the title to a very strong Brazil side and only on penalties. In 90, he exploded onto the scene with that wonder goal against the Czechs, and was a pivotal member of the squad as Italy, once again, lost on penalties, in the semis to Argentina. In 98, an ageing Baggio was still fundamental as Italy almost upset the heavy favorites, France, in the QF, once again losing on penalties. In 3 world cups, he has only missed out on the biggest prize due to losing on penalties.
Now, let's look at Messi's record as a member of the much vaunted Argentina squad.
2006: A young Messi scored a grand total of one goal. It was his first World Cup, so I'm gonna cut him some slack. He was still young and by no means a guaranteed starter.
2010: 0 goals and a 4-0 humbling in the QFs against Germany.
2014: Scores 4 goals in the group stages, helping his team advance as group winners. Goes invisible in the knockouts, 0 goals in 4 games.
2018: 1 goal in the group stage as Argentina almost get eliminated by Nigeria. In the knockouts France put 4 past them, but Argentina also score 3, 0 of them by Messi.
I like Baggio for his character and charisma - he was great for Juventus and Italy, but you're probably too young to remember that. Perhaps you were still sucking on your mama's titties back in 94 and 98
But just to debunk your theory, Baggio guided Italy, almost singlehandedly, to the World Cup final in 94, missing out on the title to a very strong Brazil side and only on penalties. In 90, he exploded onto the scene with that wonder goal against the Czechs, and was a pivotal member of the squad as Italy, once again, lost on penalties, in the semis to Argentina. In 98, an ageing Baggio was still fundamental as Italy almost upset the heavy favorites, France, in the QF, once again losing on penalties. In 3 world cups, he has only missed out on the biggest prize due to losing on penalties.
Now, let's look at Messi's record as a member of the much vaunted Argentina squad.
2006: A young Messi scored a grand total of one goal. It was his first World Cup, so I'm gonna cut him some slack. He was still young and by no means a guaranteed starter.
2010: 0 goals and a 4-0 humbling in the QFs against Germany.
2014: Scores 4 goals in the group stages, helping his team advance as group winners. Goes invisible in the knockouts, 0 goals in 4 games.
2018: 1 goal in the group stage as Argentina almost get eliminated by Nigeria. In the knockouts France put 4 past them, but Argentina also score 3, 0 of them by Messi.
but sure, you can say you don’t like him all you want, it doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s heads and shoulders above all your favorite players
Absolutely bonkers to suggest that a player that had little to no impact on knockout games was player of tournemeant and the one that carried argentina when there defence was rock solid in all there knockout games. Javier mascherano he's own team mate was far better that WC and then the like of james and robben all had way more claim to be the best that year.
That Argentina team don't make the knockouts let alone the final if you take Messi out of the team. All the other players were more or less replaceable. Other players having a great WC doesn't take anything away from Messi's WC performance that year. As we've seen with these kinds of individual trophies (fair or not) when Ronnie or Messi are in the discussion to win them, they usually do. Could have just as easily given it to some of the other players you mentioned but it does not mean Messi didn't have strong case to win it himself. I personally don't really like Messi either but I'm not going to try to twist the reality for such petty reasons.