Leonardo Bonucci (100 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
- Start date
- Tags 50-50 a_legend bonuccbauer butthurt judas much passing. wow pep's favourite "defender" prodigalsonreturns wasteman supreme
So he's not a defender yet he's not the most attacking player we have in our defensive unit. I'm sure this all makes sense in some alternate dimension.
Sure it does, to an extent. As I've said maybe a dozen times now, he's not expected to be a central defender like Barzagli or Chiellini.
It's not 2011 any more, Cronios.
This is an outright lie and just highlights your incredible bias, you would only have had to see the last game we played to know different. Continually over-egging an opinion doesn't make it valid, everyone knows Bonucci's limitations as a defender, and they are still a mile away from your description.
It all depends on the kind of opposition we are facing, individual players. Only Barzagli out of our defenders you could say does not have a weakness against certain types of players. Bonucci is obviously the weakest defender, but I feel like I'd be repeating myself to explain why.
Our biggest weakness isn't from an individual. Form comes and goes, and players will get criticised because of it (some more than others...) our approach and formation is the biggest strength and weakness, like any.
I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining Bonucci's role.
Lies, watch one game objectively, and stop exaggerating your points.
Legrottaglie is an authentic central defender, see several points above. Also worth pointing out Bonucci's age in contrast, and your continual comments "Bonucci's never going to improve". Have a look at Barzagli and Italian players in general and maybe have a think about that.
I don't know what the last line means, and the previous line is presumptuous opinion, 'no ambition to improve'. Rubbish, it's a basic principal as a sportsman.
Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it any less of a lie.
Yawn.
As I've said several times before, I see no problem with Bonucci if we are sticking with a 3-5-2. A back four is different, and considering this is apparently the formation of champions then maybe you'll get your wish to see 'real defenders' (which you need in the centre of a back four) instead of this guy who apparently can't do anything.
Feel free to make another huge reply, but I don't have a lot else to add, repeating myself is actually one of my least favourite things.
Sure it does, to an extent. As I've said maybe a dozen times now, he's not expected to be a central defender like Barzagli or Chiellini.
It's not 2011 any more, Cronios.
This is an outright lie and just highlights your incredible bias, you would only have had to see the last game we played to know different. Continually over-egging an opinion doesn't make it valid, everyone knows Bonucci's limitations as a defender, and they are still a mile away from your description.
It all depends on the kind of opposition we are facing, individual players. Only Barzagli out of our defenders you could say does not have a weakness against certain types of players. Bonucci is obviously the weakest defender, but I feel like I'd be repeating myself to explain why.
Our biggest weakness isn't from an individual. Form comes and goes, and players will get criticised because of it (some more than others...) our approach and formation is the biggest strength and weakness, like any.
I feel like I'm wasting my time explaining Bonucci's role.
Lies, watch one game objectively, and stop exaggerating your points.
Legrottaglie is an authentic central defender, see several points above. Also worth pointing out Bonucci's age in contrast, and your continual comments "Bonucci's never going to improve". Have a look at Barzagli and Italian players in general and maybe have a think about that.
I don't know what the last line means, and the previous line is presumptuous opinion, 'no ambition to improve'. Rubbish, it's a basic principal as a sportsman.
Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it any less of a lie.
Yawn.
As I've said several times before, I see no problem with Bonucci if we are sticking with a 3-5-2. A back four is different, and considering this is apparently the formation of champions then maybe you'll get your wish to see 'real defenders' (which you need in the centre of a back four) instead of this guy who apparently can't do anything.
Feel free to make another huge reply, but I don't have a lot else to add, repeating myself is actually one of my least favourite things.
Juvejay is just a hater, i took the time to explain my stance in great detail and he calls my views as... "lies", not false, or wrong impression, but lies, like i intentionally want to hate a random player, for no reason...
This was not random, he just hates my guts so my much, that he cant be objective, i dont know why, maybe because of my nationality, or public influence, or just becuase my opinion hurt some of his budies, but he does that systematically with me, despite the fact that he generally is a man one can reason with.
Despite the fact that i never personally attacked him...
Anyways, i will only repeat once again, that the only reason to dislike the use of certain players that are wearing our jersey, is because that i believe that for one reason or another, they do more harm, rather than helping our cause. Either now, or in the long run, or both.
I have no personal reason no hate any player, that belongs to our favorite team, for any other reason. The only reason i would do that is because that he causes damages.
There are various reasons that some weaklings, most of the time, of Italian origin, playing at our defense, do happen to enjoy a special favoritism,
for reasons, other than our sport performance
and if those weaklings somehow are gifted a starter role. I see in them, a grave danger for our team's improvement in the long run and naturally focus my criticism, on what i percieve as the greatest threat to Juventus cause! I wish they would improve or being replaced by better men. We are as strong as our weakest link, replacing the weakest link with a strong component, is the best way to improve our self.
This stands for other positions too, coaches, transfer directors, scouters, etc.
Once the threat is removed, one way or the other, i dont mind their existence, if it was some form of personal hate,i would still hate them.
We have experienced some tragic experiences in the past, Molinaro being one that pops up first.
He was a lost cause as a football player, because of him, our team has lost many many points and we have suffered quite a lot.
I dont mind about forum popularity and so i fiercely criticized his incompetence from the very first moments i was convinced about his non-value, against the vocal minorities, or powerfull forum groups,
i would either defend Juve's cause or die trying.
This has been repeated with other similar cases and every single time history has proved my right on my criticism.
It is disgraceful to keep claiming that i do it for fan, only to troll, or because of personal reasons.
It is prooved beyond any doubt, that i love for Juve and only want the best for her, losing players that helped her, is as bad as using players that harm her.
Why would i care more to troll a random poster, who i dont even know, more than i care for my favorite team?
Total nonsense to claim that i lied, this is my view and i have the right to express it in a public forum, without getting personal attacks from some bullies that think that they run the show and can only allow their opinion as the only truth!
This is my opinion and my arguments, i expect counter arguments and a civilised discussion, claiming that i either troll or lie, adds nothing to the table, it is only an attempt to undermine my opinion and impose another one... and whats more disgusting, its an attempt to draw attention from the matter at hand and some valid arguments of criticism.
(which fortunately was not the case now, JJ has some class)
This was not random, he just hates my guts so my much, that he cant be objective, i dont know why, maybe because of my nationality, or public influence, or just becuase my opinion hurt some of his budies, but he does that systematically with me, despite the fact that he generally is a man one can reason with.
Despite the fact that i never personally attacked him...
Anyways, i will only repeat once again, that the only reason to dislike the use of certain players that are wearing our jersey, is because that i believe that for one reason or another, they do more harm, rather than helping our cause. Either now, or in the long run, or both.
I have no personal reason no hate any player, that belongs to our favorite team, for any other reason. The only reason i would do that is because that he causes damages.
There are various reasons that some weaklings, most of the time, of Italian origin, playing at our defense, do happen to enjoy a special favoritism,
for reasons, other than our sport performance
and if those weaklings somehow are gifted a starter role. I see in them, a grave danger for our team's improvement in the long run and naturally focus my criticism, on what i percieve as the greatest threat to Juventus cause! I wish they would improve or being replaced by better men. We are as strong as our weakest link, replacing the weakest link with a strong component, is the best way to improve our self.
This stands for other positions too, coaches, transfer directors, scouters, etc.
Once the threat is removed, one way or the other, i dont mind their existence, if it was some form of personal hate,i would still hate them.
We have experienced some tragic experiences in the past, Molinaro being one that pops up first.
He was a lost cause as a football player, because of him, our team has lost many many points and we have suffered quite a lot.
I dont mind about forum popularity and so i fiercely criticized his incompetence from the very first moments i was convinced about his non-value, against the vocal minorities, or powerfull forum groups,
i would either defend Juve's cause or die trying.
This has been repeated with other similar cases and every single time history has proved my right on my criticism.
It is disgraceful to keep claiming that i do it for fan, only to troll, or because of personal reasons.
It is prooved beyond any doubt, that i love for Juve and only want the best for her, losing players that helped her, is as bad as using players that harm her.
Why would i care more to troll a random poster, who i dont even know, more than i care for my favorite team?
Total nonsense to claim that i lied, this is my view and i have the right to express it in a public forum, without getting personal attacks from some bullies that think that they run the show and can only allow their opinion as the only truth!
This is my opinion and my arguments, i expect counter arguments and a civilised discussion, claiming that i either troll or lie, adds nothing to the table, it is only an attempt to undermine my opinion and impose another one... and whats more disgusting, its an attempt to draw attention from the matter at hand and some valid arguments of criticism.
(which fortunately was not the case now, JJ has some class)
I'm pretty sure you don't hate him, but you stuck your neck out and made a call on him some time ago and now want to be proven right about him. The thing is your general points are fair and may well be valid, it's when you exaggerate (a common tactic on forums) to heighten the effect it looks stupid. You know the transfer fee you keep repeating is a lie, so I won't apologise for saying that. You know he does make interceptions, so likewise. You know the nationalistic thing is an irrelevant catchphrase, which no one takes you seriously on.
That's fine, fair enough. Although I suspect it is more to be correct, as it was and still is with Marotta, Peluso, and other personnel you decided to rubbish. People can say what they choose to, but if I see something overly unreasonable and have the inclination to respond then I'll add a bit of balance. So I guess that makes me a fanboy of all those people you have overly criticised, at least that is usually how this works.
We all want the best, you won't find me disputing that. I also don't think the usual appealing to the masses or turning this into a personal argument tactic is really advisable. I couldn't care less about individual members, it's the post content I respond to, and you quite simply use lies to exaggerate an otherwise reasonable argument. Not only that but you repeat them and refuse to acknowledge the cold facts presented to you.
These are minor details, anyway. You are allowed your opinion, but this is a forum and likewise I am allowed to respond to inaccuracies.
Here's some examples, so you can't say I haven't been clear:
- If I said Bonucci won almost all of his interceptions and rarely made a mistake, that would be a lie. That would be me exaggerating to give credence to my stance. When you say Bonucci almost always messes up, and is unable to stop his man, that is also a lie. The truth is somewhere in-between. See previous posts for my stance on that.
- If I said Bonucci cost us €5 plus a bunch of grapes, that would be a lie. When you say Bonucci cost €15.5m plus Domenico Criscito, this is also a lie. The truth is that we paid ½Criscito (valued at €6m) plus €2m cash to Genoa, and ½Almiron (valued at €2.5m) plus €5m cash to Bari. I'm sure a smart man such as yourself can add these values up to get €15.5m total.
That's fine, fair enough. Although I suspect it is more to be correct, as it was and still is with Marotta, Peluso, and other personnel you decided to rubbish. People can say what they choose to, but if I see something overly unreasonable and have the inclination to respond then I'll add a bit of balance. So I guess that makes me a fanboy of all those people you have overly criticised, at least that is usually how this works.
We all want the best, you won't find me disputing that. I also don't think the usual appealing to the masses or turning this into a personal argument tactic is really advisable. I couldn't care less about individual members, it's the post content I respond to, and you quite simply use lies to exaggerate an otherwise reasonable argument. Not only that but you repeat them and refuse to acknowledge the cold facts presented to you.
These are minor details, anyway. You are allowed your opinion, but this is a forum and likewise I am allowed to respond to inaccuracies.
Here's some examples, so you can't say I haven't been clear:
- If I said Bonucci won almost all of his interceptions and rarely made a mistake, that would be a lie. That would be me exaggerating to give credence to my stance. When you say Bonucci almost always messes up, and is unable to stop his man, that is also a lie. The truth is somewhere in-between. See previous posts for my stance on that.
- If I said Bonucci cost us €5 plus a bunch of grapes, that would be a lie. When you say Bonucci cost €15.5m plus Domenico Criscito, this is also a lie. The truth is that we paid ½Criscito (valued at €6m) plus €2m cash to Genoa, and ½Almiron (valued at €2.5m) plus €5m cash to Bari. I'm sure a smart man such as yourself can add these values up to get €15.5m total.
See the reason that he is my favorite hater, he hates me, but at least one can reason with him!
-the nationalistic thing is NOT an irrelevant catchphrase. You can choose to ignore it, but it is there!
I wish it wasnt there, but i can turn a blind eye, on nothing for the same reason, unfortunately, it doesnt work that way with me.
But i could pretend that i ignore and dont bring it in discussions in here, however, it is very very relevant and it explains many of apparently crazy transfer decisions.
It was a strategical choice to sacrifice perfromance, to regain the national trust, lost in the calciopoli fiasco, with nationalistic measures aiming at the nationalistic proud of a large part of calcio fans and of course an effort to return to what was largely percieved as a return to our roots, to smth more pure, homegrown talents elivate that sentiment. There were some official announcements by our board, that Juve will become more Italian again and we will become more like Barca in terms of spectacle and less like the typical Italian ultradefensive ugly but efficient beast.
The choices we made back then, had other criteria, than performance.
I fiercely objeced of course. And a after a handfull of changes in the management, thankfully, the ItalJuve project was dropped and we have opted for performanceonce again.
There are some reminence of those priorities though and although history has already proved that they have held us back, we continue to tolerate some of them.
Conte, removed as many as he could and tried to mask our weakness with the least possible compromises.
When we were buying Bonucci, our priorities were completely different.
To anyone who has seen him play along Rannochia, it was obvious, that it was Rannochia the one who did all the defending.
Inter was still more powerfull and took the gem, despite having a passion of ruining such careers (F Cannavaro anyone?)
However, they both were not ready for the big team we were aspiring to be. Being among the best of their generation though, they were overhyped and overpriced.
Inter had a huge proportion of stranieri and loads of cash in plus. So they wouldnt mind to throw away some to buy the best there is and since he wasnt as good as their foreign, he would rot in the bench anyway.
We on the other hand, were not as wealthy, actually, we were cornered, both financially and performance wise.
We could afford many stranieri slots though. So there and then it was the perfect opportunity to buy a great CB to partner Chiellini.
With the 15.5mil cash we now all agree that we have comitted, we could go for many many option of the global schene.
However, we were only looking for Italians and if it wasnt for nationalistic reason, then why not?
Why not a Samuel or a Mexes or a Zapata?
Why many of the rubbish players we were collecting that reason, the Italian papers were writing with bold letters, that we are acquiring the X Italian talent with Caps in the Italian Nt, like that was proof of anything.
The Grossos, Tonis and the Mottas have already proven our nationalistic criteria at selecting players.
In the defense we still do, the Pelusos, Padoins and Molinaros are only here because of their nationality and not because of their abilities.
The faith at Italian defenders is sorely missplaced on the latest, Barcelonised, Italian defender crops.
They would rather be Messis and Iniestas, than Nestas and Cannavaros...
If we were looking for the perfromance, instead of nationalism, we would look elsewhere and when we did with Licht, our Motta issues immediately vanished.
However in the left flank and CB we insist on Italians.
There is a distninct lack of Italian quality players there, as it obvious by the fact that the NT, who could select anyone, has grave issues at finding a decent one, and many times prefer LMs and DMs to the crappy available LBs and CBs.
On the left flank in particularly, we have tried every single player of the ones that took a NT mantle, even for a couple of times, instead of a foreigner.
For ten years now we are looking for the successor of Zambro/Chiellini without any luck and after suffering the complete disaster named molinaro, we insist Italian even now, after all we have been though...
We still have some nationalistic issues to resolve. In the past few years, after watching Bonucci comitting mistake after mistake and falling apart at the moments when one of the 2 CBs had to be missing, we knew of the need for another CB on the same level, just like we had similar options for the middle three
And what did we do, we have comitted the same ammount we did on Bonucci (13+2 =15mil) on a new and improven young and Italian...
We have exausted pretty much every solution there is out of Italian defenders with a few NT caps on their back, how many more before you stop believing that this was a random incident?
Why if there is such a defensive crisis in Italy dont we buy from abroad?
I have my reasons to believe that nationalism is one of them and you have seen, there are strong reasons behind it. This is not smth i mention to troll anyone, this patterns repeats it self for a decade at least and even if you refuse to believe it, you should at least try to understand we others dont...
As for the exact ammount it is a very complicated matter, i have written pages long post explaining in great detail why i believe the ammount i believe is true, so no, it is not a lie, i have my reasons to believe it!
and accepting those 15.5mil is enough for me anyways, as the MArottas apologists for years were caiming that it was 15.5 minus the profits we made on the three players halves...
I never said that we paid more than 15.5 in cash. But i firmly believe that we have lost more than that in player value, because the ammounts you mentioned were so small, to sweaten the deals for the involved parties to concur, so that we can get Bonucci. Almiron for ex was bought for 9mil and we have accepted 2mil for his half. For Criscito we bought his half for 8mil and sold it 6.
If you only add up the declared values of their halves, yes it is 15.5mil, but if you take in concern their market value before and after their transfer on the Bonucci deal, you will see that those prices were lesser in order to sweaten the Bonucci deal. So i have my reasons to believe that we lose more than that and it was not a blatant lie, it was based on certain numbers i explained in great detail.
And my main point has always was, than even at 15.5mil (a sum that my haters were not accepting) it was far too much for a player who is not yet ready to play in this level.
Maybe when he reaches 28 and IF, a huge IF there, fulfills his potential, ok, but not when we gave it!
And this was already proven by history, as Bonucci commited mistake after mistake and cost us so much hastle. He wasnt ready, heck, he is barely is ready even now.
He should follow the LEgro path and come back when he becomes of age.
Anyways, Conte did find a way to get the better of him, he use him as a CB, but not defend, or at east to avoid as much as possible and add where Chiello lacks (passing)
This also why he plays a DM as a LB (Asamoah) and why he had to switch to the 3-5-2, as our defense was too weak to survive of its own, they need one extra line of defense in front of them.
This is what i believe, this is what Conte believes and this is what Canna says in my signature.
You may disagree with it, for your own reasons, you may right or not, but you cannot claim that i lie, or that i dont have my reasons to believe what i believe, as long as i state the reasoning behind it...
This what i beleived since the day the ItalJuve project was announced and all the Molinaros and Grossos we have experienced did not disprove it.
This is what i believed for our defense ever since we were changing coaches, DMs and tactics like sirts, up untill Conte has made that changes in our defense and did not disprove me.
This is why i believed that we can invest 20mil on Osvaldo and not the half of it on Zuniga, Coentrao or Kolarov, this is why i new that we will keep Bonucci, but will sell out Melo, there is a certain pattern here that repeats itself, i see it, you ignore it, you may choose to ignore it, you may choose not to adopt it, but yu cant claim that i lie, only because you dont want to believe it.
I believe it because i have my reasons to believe it. And i only stated here a part of them, there are more, much many more...
You calling a liar, others a troll or just insulting me, i see it as an attempt to discredit someone who says smth that you dont approve, but since you cant disprove it, you can only try to discredit the source, without giving much importance to the facts that he is stating. Like a witness claiming that he has seen Molinaro/Bonucci commiting crimes in our defense, then and there and with that way and isntead of trying to proove that thise were not crimes, you attack the witness, who only states what he sees and how he percieved it.
The subject of the thread is Bonucci, it is normal to have discussion, positive or negative on him and his performances.
It is not normal to have forum members attacking each other...
-the nationalistic thing is NOT an irrelevant catchphrase. You can choose to ignore it, but it is there!
I wish it wasnt there, but i can turn a blind eye, on nothing for the same reason, unfortunately, it doesnt work that way with me.
But i could pretend that i ignore and dont bring it in discussions in here, however, it is very very relevant and it explains many of apparently crazy transfer decisions.
It was a strategical choice to sacrifice perfromance, to regain the national trust, lost in the calciopoli fiasco, with nationalistic measures aiming at the nationalistic proud of a large part of calcio fans and of course an effort to return to what was largely percieved as a return to our roots, to smth more pure, homegrown talents elivate that sentiment. There were some official announcements by our board, that Juve will become more Italian again and we will become more like Barca in terms of spectacle and less like the typical Italian ultradefensive ugly but efficient beast.
The choices we made back then, had other criteria, than performance.
I fiercely objeced of course. And a after a handfull of changes in the management, thankfully, the ItalJuve project was dropped and we have opted for performanceonce again.
There are some reminence of those priorities though and although history has already proved that they have held us back, we continue to tolerate some of them.
Conte, removed as many as he could and tried to mask our weakness with the least possible compromises.
When we were buying Bonucci, our priorities were completely different.
To anyone who has seen him play along Rannochia, it was obvious, that it was Rannochia the one who did all the defending.
Inter was still more powerfull and took the gem, despite having a passion of ruining such careers (F Cannavaro anyone?)
However, they both were not ready for the big team we were aspiring to be. Being among the best of their generation though, they were overhyped and overpriced.
Inter had a huge proportion of stranieri and loads of cash in plus. So they wouldnt mind to throw away some to buy the best there is and since he wasnt as good as their foreign, he would rot in the bench anyway.
We on the other hand, were not as wealthy, actually, we were cornered, both financially and performance wise.
We could afford many stranieri slots though. So there and then it was the perfect opportunity to buy a great CB to partner Chiellini.
With the 15.5mil cash we now all agree that we have comitted, we could go for many many option of the global schene.
However, we were only looking for Italians and if it wasnt for nationalistic reason, then why not?
Why not a Samuel or a Mexes or a Zapata?
Why many of the rubbish players we were collecting that reason, the Italian papers were writing with bold letters, that we are acquiring the X Italian talent with Caps in the Italian Nt, like that was proof of anything.
The Grossos, Tonis and the Mottas have already proven our nationalistic criteria at selecting players.
In the defense we still do, the Pelusos, Padoins and Molinaros are only here because of their nationality and not because of their abilities.
The faith at Italian defenders is sorely missplaced on the latest, Barcelonised, Italian defender crops.
They would rather be Messis and Iniestas, than Nestas and Cannavaros...
If we were looking for the perfromance, instead of nationalism, we would look elsewhere and when we did with Licht, our Motta issues immediately vanished.
However in the left flank and CB we insist on Italians.
There is a distninct lack of Italian quality players there, as it obvious by the fact that the NT, who could select anyone, has grave issues at finding a decent one, and many times prefer LMs and DMs to the crappy available LBs and CBs.
On the left flank in particularly, we have tried every single player of the ones that took a NT mantle, even for a couple of times, instead of a foreigner.
For ten years now we are looking for the successor of Zambro/Chiellini without any luck and after suffering the complete disaster named molinaro, we insist Italian even now, after all we have been though...
We still have some nationalistic issues to resolve. In the past few years, after watching Bonucci comitting mistake after mistake and falling apart at the moments when one of the 2 CBs had to be missing, we knew of the need for another CB on the same level, just like we had similar options for the middle three
And what did we do, we have comitted the same ammount we did on Bonucci (13+2 =15mil) on a new and improven young and Italian...
We have exausted pretty much every solution there is out of Italian defenders with a few NT caps on their back, how many more before you stop believing that this was a random incident?
Why if there is such a defensive crisis in Italy dont we buy from abroad?
I have my reasons to believe that nationalism is one of them and you have seen, there are strong reasons behind it. This is not smth i mention to troll anyone, this patterns repeats it self for a decade at least and even if you refuse to believe it, you should at least try to understand we others dont...
As for the exact ammount it is a very complicated matter, i have written pages long post explaining in great detail why i believe the ammount i believe is true, so no, it is not a lie, i have my reasons to believe it!
and accepting those 15.5mil is enough for me anyways, as the MArottas apologists for years were caiming that it was 15.5 minus the profits we made on the three players halves...
I never said that we paid more than 15.5 in cash. But i firmly believe that we have lost more than that in player value, because the ammounts you mentioned were so small, to sweaten the deals for the involved parties to concur, so that we can get Bonucci. Almiron for ex was bought for 9mil and we have accepted 2mil for his half. For Criscito we bought his half for 8mil and sold it 6.
If you only add up the declared values of their halves, yes it is 15.5mil, but if you take in concern their market value before and after their transfer on the Bonucci deal, you will see that those prices were lesser in order to sweaten the Bonucci deal. So i have my reasons to believe that we lose more than that and it was not a blatant lie, it was based on certain numbers i explained in great detail.
And my main point has always was, than even at 15.5mil (a sum that my haters were not accepting) it was far too much for a player who is not yet ready to play in this level.
Maybe when he reaches 28 and IF, a huge IF there, fulfills his potential, ok, but not when we gave it!
And this was already proven by history, as Bonucci commited mistake after mistake and cost us so much hastle. He wasnt ready, heck, he is barely is ready even now.
He should follow the LEgro path and come back when he becomes of age.
Anyways, Conte did find a way to get the better of him, he use him as a CB, but not defend, or at east to avoid as much as possible and add where Chiello lacks (passing)
This also why he plays a DM as a LB (Asamoah) and why he had to switch to the 3-5-2, as our defense was too weak to survive of its own, they need one extra line of defense in front of them.
This is what i believe, this is what Conte believes and this is what Canna says in my signature.
You may disagree with it, for your own reasons, you may right or not, but you cannot claim that i lie, or that i dont have my reasons to believe what i believe, as long as i state the reasoning behind it...
This what i beleived since the day the ItalJuve project was announced and all the Molinaros and Grossos we have experienced did not disprove it.
This is what i believed for our defense ever since we were changing coaches, DMs and tactics like sirts, up untill Conte has made that changes in our defense and did not disprove me.
This is why i believed that we can invest 20mil on Osvaldo and not the half of it on Zuniga, Coentrao or Kolarov, this is why i new that we will keep Bonucci, but will sell out Melo, there is a certain pattern here that repeats itself, i see it, you ignore it, you may choose to ignore it, you may choose not to adopt it, but yu cant claim that i lie, only because you dont want to believe it.
I believe it because i have my reasons to believe it. And i only stated here a part of them, there are more, much many more...
You calling a liar, others a troll or just insulting me, i see it as an attempt to discredit someone who says smth that you dont approve, but since you cant disprove it, you can only try to discredit the source, without giving much importance to the facts that he is stating. Like a witness claiming that he has seen Molinaro/Bonucci commiting crimes in our defense, then and there and with that way and isntead of trying to proove that thise were not crimes, you attack the witness, who only states what he sees and how he percieved it.
The subject of the thread is Bonucci, it is normal to have discussion, positive or negative on him and his performances.
It is not normal to have forum members attacking each other...
It's how JJ operates on these boards, unfortunately. Every time some member debates with him over any subject he tends to use that particular method as a way of discrediting, sometimes derogating, even mocking ideas that are contrary with his, forgetting that forum's purpose and main goal is healthy discussion and all differences instead should be embraced.
It's how JJ operates on these boards, unfortunately. Every time some member debates with him over any subject he tends to use that particular method as a way of discrediting, sometimes derogating, even mocking ideas that are contrary with his, forgetting that forum's purpose and main goal is healthy discussion and all differences instead should be embraced.
Cron - that's a big post and I've no interest in replying to all of it. I'm not going to be overwhelmed with a wall of text battle, I've made my comments and pointed out some facts you are still choosing to ignore. I still you are still not acknowledging or perhaps understanding the role Bonucci plays and the type of player he is. Your overall opinion is valid and worth debating from a technical and tactical perspective, mine is that I have no issue with Bonucci in our 3-5-2. With a player like this you take the rough with the smooth or completely change, I'll leave it at that.
Favourite hater
You're a diamond.
