Leonardo Bonucci (84 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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- Tags 50-50 a_legend bonuccbauer butthurt judas much passing. wow pep's favourite "defender" prodigalsonreturns wasteman supreme
OP
Not really. A defeated man would burst into flames trying to prove him wrong. I won't do that because it's one of the worst arguments. You just jumped on that boat because you jump into every argument with Conte.
You're a very weird person.
lol. It was you who said it's Conte's fault because he uses that formation and doesn't bench him. And no, I will not search for that post.
You're a very weird person.
lol. It was you who said it's Conte's fault because he uses that formation and doesn't bench him. And no, I will not search for that post.
I'm gonna keep this very simple. You said "Bonucci sucks". He obviously doesn't. He's been our starter for the past 4 seasons and there's a reason why he was part of one of the best defenses in Europe. You always like to underline his weaknesses which are there for all to see, yet you also try to hide his abilities which kills your whole argument.
What I said in Conte's thread was that I'm all for changing the formation with a back 4 and dropping Bonucci, but for some reason Conte wasn't willing to do so in his 2 and a half years with us. He didn't even drop him for our new 15M CB signing this Summer. Conte must see something in him which is ideal for a 3 men defense, which you obviously don't want to understand.
What I said in Conte's thread was that I'm all for changing the formation with a back 4 and dropping Bonucci, but for some reason Conte wasn't willing to do so in his 2 and a half years with us. He didn't even drop him for our new 15M CB signing this Summer. Conte must see something in him which is ideal for a 3 men defense, which you obviously don't want to understand.
OP
So there shouldn't be any argument regarding players, as long as Conte plays them. People should not argue about playing Asamoah as a LWB, or state the obvious when Marchisio sucks. Let's all bow to Conte's decision.
I seriously couldn't care less about such stuff. I form my opinion based on what I see on the pitch. 3 man defense makes Bonucci look better, but in all honesty he's not a good defender and he's of no use in 4 man defense, simply because he's not good at defending, he has too many flaws and brainfarts. And yes, we should change that formation as well. Just because Conte likes it doesn't mean it's written in the stone how great it is.
You just love defending mediocre players. I guess you have a soft spot for them. This argument is also pointless, because you're gonna stick with mediocrity, just like you stick with Marchisio.
I seriously couldn't care less about such stuff. I form my opinion based on what I see on the pitch. 3 man defense makes Bonucci look better, but in all honesty he's not a good defender and he's of no use in 4 man defense, simply because he's not good at defending, he has too many flaws and brainfarts. And yes, we should change that formation as well. Just because Conte likes it doesn't mean it's written in the stone how great it is.
You just love defending mediocre players. I guess you have a soft spot for them. This argument is also pointless, because you're gonna stick with mediocrity, just like you stick with Marchisio.
OP
What? You're making absolutely no sense. Klin was just pointing out that Bonucci has been a vital part of this winning team during Conte - add Prandelli's team too.
Edit: Nevermind - Klin wrote it himself.
Your weird love/hate relationship too certain Italian players has become even more dumb, since your philosophical posts took over in the non footballing threads.
Edit: Nevermind - Klin wrote it himself.
Your weird love/hate relationship too certain Italian players has become even more dumb, since your philosophical posts took over in the non footballing threads.
OP
Always amusing to see this.
I love/hate certain Italian players. It's not about love or hate, it's about rating a player highly or thinking he's not good enough.
I actually rate pretty high players like Buffon, Chiellini, Barzagli, De Rossi (4 years ago and this season), Pirlo, Rossi. I don't think they have a good generation at the moment considering the players in the middle and attack. I used to rate Del Piero, Totti, Zambrotta, Nesta, Cannavaro, Cassano, Camo, Inzaghi and many, many other players. People say I hate Italian players because I point out how (I think) Ranocchia, Bonucci, Montolivo, Nocerino, Criscito, Abate, Gila, Borriello and others are not good enough, not for Juve. They are just a bunch of mediocre players IMO. This new group of youth players (in Italian NT) seems very promising, though.
But if you or anyone else think that's hate towards players, be my guest and stick with that opinion.
As for philosophical posts I don't see the relation in this case at all. I used to think the same about those players even years back when you were not around, so reading some books certainly didn't change my opinion of football players.
I love/hate certain Italian players. It's not about love or hate, it's about rating a player highly or thinking he's not good enough.
I actually rate pretty high players like Buffon, Chiellini, Barzagli, De Rossi (4 years ago and this season), Pirlo, Rossi. I don't think they have a good generation at the moment considering the players in the middle and attack. I used to rate Del Piero, Totti, Zambrotta, Nesta, Cannavaro, Cassano, Camo, Inzaghi and many, many other players. People say I hate Italian players because I point out how (I think) Ranocchia, Bonucci, Montolivo, Nocerino, Criscito, Abate, Gila, Borriello and others are not good enough, not for Juve. They are just a bunch of mediocre players IMO. This new group of youth players (in Italian NT) seems very promising, though.
But if you or anyone else think that's hate towards players, be my guest and stick with that opinion.
As for philosophical posts I don't see the relation in this case at all. I used to think the same about those players even years back when you were not around, so reading some books certainly didn't change my opinion of football players.
Can't see the humor in it. The love for Bonucci by some people is breaking all barriers. I even read on Marotta's thread by our dear mod JJ that he was well worth 15m, his high ratings by some ignorant journo justified his price tag lol, well he simply wasn't worth 15, not then, and certainly not now. We'll never recoup the money spent on him, this guy is hopelessly mediocre. I had high hopes for him when he first arrived but you learn to let it go, accept the reality; mediocre, error prone CB with good passing ability. Having said that I kinda agree with Klin, while we're playing 3 men defense, sadly, this guy will start.
He does sux, individually as a defender!
As a part of our our team, he is usefull only because of his passing. And thats the tactical reason Conte sees on him.
(plus the fact that he is very conservative and he still has some misleading trust in the quality of the Italian defenders and as we are obliged to keep a number of Italian players, he prefers them to hold those slots)
We made a huge investment (for such an unproven player) on him in cash and player contracts, that was never justified.
The reason was primarily his nationality and secondary the tendency of our transfer director to overspend, NOT because of his actual value.
This means that we cannot dismiss as a failure right away, as it would be too costly and the other available solution (Rannochia) was out of hand.
He may be included in some journalist teams as a statistic number, but not because of his real life performance.
On the field, you know that you cant trust Bonucci to intercept/mark/block any player.
He is the weakest link of our defense, every time the real CBs were missing and our midfield was pressured by a strong a team, he made horrible mistakes that led to goals, loses and disqualifications.
Against the smaller team, our midfield dominates the opposition, takes all the pressure of the defense and allows a player that cannot defend to stand there and pass the ball around.
He would be great in the Spanish league, but in Italy, once the homeland of the best defenders in the world, it is not!
As a part of our our team, he is usefull only because of his passing. And thats the tactical reason Conte sees on him.
(plus the fact that he is very conservative and he still has some misleading trust in the quality of the Italian defenders and as we are obliged to keep a number of Italian players, he prefers them to hold those slots)
We made a huge investment (for such an unproven player) on him in cash and player contracts, that was never justified.
The reason was primarily his nationality and secondary the tendency of our transfer director to overspend, NOT because of his actual value.
This means that we cannot dismiss as a failure right away, as it would be too costly and the other available solution (Rannochia) was out of hand.
He may be included in some journalist teams as a statistic number, but not because of his real life performance.
On the field, you know that you cant trust Bonucci to intercept/mark/block any player.
He is the weakest link of our defense, every time the real CBs were missing and our midfield was pressured by a strong a team, he made horrible mistakes that led to goals, loses and disqualifications.
Against the smaller team, our midfield dominates the opposition, takes all the pressure of the defense and allows a player that cannot defend to stand there and pass the ball around.
He would be great in the Spanish league, but in Italy, once the homeland of the best defenders in the world, it is not!
Yeah, cause it should be as black and white like this 
I actually thought you knew better.
Saying Bonucci sucks is retarded. But you know what, a lot of different people here point this out when we discuss various players, cause there's no middleground on this forum.
Juventus' biggest strenght is the team and that's how it should be in todays game. Add some individual offensive world class players and you have a world class team. Look at Bayern, Dortmund and Barcelona too. Isolate some of their defensive players and look at the many errors some of them also does. Take them out of their team and they would probably fail as much as you say Bonucci will.
It's so hypocritical saying Bonucci shouldn't play cause he's not good enough defensively, while the same people are creaming about a player like Agger, who "sucks" defensively too.
I'm not a fan boy. I was against Bonucci before Conte and truly hated him, because of his errors (which were critical at that time) and he made a lot of them. But he improved at club level and at the nt, and he has showned us for two and a half seasons that he can match the big players.
Do I believe we should switch to a back four? - yes. Do I believe Bonucci should benched then? - yes. I believe this, cause Barzagli and Chiellini are much better, not because Bonucci sucks.
I think Bonucci would have a hard time in a back four, but saying he can't play in one is based on nothing, since we haven't seen him play regularly in one. E.g. he played damned good against Real Madrid.
I actually thought you knew better. Saying Bonucci sucks is retarded. But you know what, a lot of different people here point this out when we discuss various players, cause there's no middleground on this forum.
Juventus' biggest strenght is the team and that's how it should be in todays game. Add some individual offensive world class players and you have a world class team. Look at Bayern, Dortmund and Barcelona too. Isolate some of their defensive players and look at the many errors some of them also does. Take them out of their team and they would probably fail as much as you say Bonucci will.
It's so hypocritical saying Bonucci shouldn't play cause he's not good enough defensively, while the same people are creaming about a player like Agger, who "sucks" defensively too.
I'm not a fan boy. I was against Bonucci before Conte and truly hated him, because of his errors (which were critical at that time) and he made a lot of them. But he improved at club level and at the nt, and he has showned us for two and a half seasons that he can match the big players.
Do I believe we should switch to a back four? - yes. Do I believe Bonucci should benched then? - yes. I believe this, cause Barzagli and Chiellini are much better, not because Bonucci sucks.
I think Bonucci would have a hard time in a back four, but saying he can't play in one is based on nothing, since we haven't seen him play regularly in one. E.g. he played damned good against Real Madrid.
havent seen his stick-the-hip-out-tackle or stick the leg out backwards deflection in a while 
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Watch Bonucci 1v1 vs any opposition attacker (be it attacker or defender), he gets skinned 9 out of 10 times, the 10th time is only when the attacking player stuffs something up.
