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DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
46,780
Its not as easy as you make it sound. I saw plenty of times, defenders that members here usually hold in higher regard, getting turned. Ideally you never want to leave your defenders in one on one situations, the risk is too high. But he defended several one on ones throughout the game and only several minutes before he blocked Correa's shot after he turned Demiral. There was too much pressure on defenders in the last 10 minutes and odds werent in his favor. Once again, Dybala controls an easy pass and its all over...
Dont bother and try to be somewhat reasonable with them. It's going nowhere.
 
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Dostoevsky

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
82,651
:lol2: I love it how Bonucci fans try their best to defend the player every single time, even when he fucks up -- which is quite often. Then, once in a blue moon, he makes no mistakes and they get out from their holes hailing him for his performance, saying how he's great etc.

But there's no way we had a player who cost us more points than Bonucci. Not just that, but he's clueless at defending to the point when people say he's not that good for 4 man defence simply because he needs 2 players to cover his ass. And while we're at his ass, there were rarely players who defended with their ass like Bonucci does, moving his body to such a weird angle that his defending is useless.

And yes. He did good in the first half, even some parts in the second, yea. But that doesn't mean he's a good defender. And he did fuck up despite Dybala's pass. He failed to defend. Simple as that. It's his trait so it's not a huge surprise but still.
 

only-juve

Senior Member
Jan 5, 2008
7,451
:lol2: I love it how Bonucci fans try their best to defend the player every single time, even when he fucks up -- which is quite often. Then, once in a blue moon, he makes no mistakes and they get out from their holes hailing him for his performance, saying how he's great etc.

But there's no way we had a player who cost us more points than Bonucci. Not just that, but he's clueless at defending to the point when people say he's not that good for 4 man defence simply because he needs 2 players to cover his ass. And while we're at his ass, there were rarely players who defended with their ass like Bonucci does, moving his body to such a weird angle that his defending is useless.

And yes. He did good in the first half, even some parts in the second, yea. But that doesn't mean he's a good defender. And he did fuck up despite Dybala's pass. He failed to defend. Simple as that. It's his trait so it's not a huge surprise but still.
He spent 1 season in Milan and they shipped his ass back to Juve because they’ve realized how average he is (Milan fans hated his guts). That summarizes him pretty much.
 

MrMonkey

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2017
1,380
Even if Demiral hasn't been his best, sure hope they go with him alongside MDL as #1 duo. I know stats don't say everything but Bono's best days are in the rear view mirror. And my eye test agrees with the numbers.
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
9,809
Its not as easy as you make it sound. I saw plenty of times, defenders that members here usually hold in higher regard, getting turned. Ideally you never want to leave your defenders in one on one situations, the risk is too high. But he defended several one on ones throughout the game and only several minutes before he blocked Correa's shot after he turned Demiral. There was too much pressure on defenders in the last 10 minutes and odds werent in his favor. Once again, Dybala controls an easy pass and its all over...
Again, I agree Dybala made a mistake and it was very poor. But that doesn't mean we didn't have time to react and if players do their job (given he lost the ball as our most advanced player, halfway up the pitch) it is a non issue.

If it was Rugani who did what Bonucci did people would be going crazy. It is not some complex skill I am expecting from him just doing get turned by an average attacker in your box and let him get a shot away the box, it is amateur level. All he needs to do is stand his ground without getting too tight.

Of course defenders make mistakes, it is the frequency that Bonucci does them that is the issue and after a while you lose patience. He made another huge lapse in the first half which fortunately went unpunished. He also did some good defending at times, one instance covering well for Demiral. But look at the goals we have conceded over the past couple of seasons, there is a common issue.
 

Vlad

Senior Member
May 23, 2011
19,394
Again, I agree Dybala made a mistake and it was very poor. But that doesn't mean we didn't have time to react and if players do their job (given he lost the ball as our most advanced player, halfway up the pitch) it is a non issue.

If it was Rugani who did what Bonucci did people would be going crazy. It is not some complex skill I am expecting from him just doing get turned by an average attacker in your box and let him get a shot away the box, it is amateur level. All he needs to do is stand his ground without getting too tight.

Of course defenders make mistakes, it is the frequency that Bonucci does them that is the issue and after a while you lose patience. He made another huge lapse in the first half which fortunately went unpunished. He also did some good defending at times, one instance covering well for Demiral. But look at the goals we have conceded over the past couple of seasons, there is a common issue.
Again, there were several plays before Bonucci got turned where we had to react better and not get ourselves in this position.. The ball didnt arrive straight at Caicedo. Cuadrado? Demiral, that was actualy his side, etc... but out of all players, Bonucci is to blame. Doesnt seem right. As for the past games we havent defended well as a team, opponents were rushing at every counter at our defenders so it is more of a tactical issue, than blaming it on Bonucci. I dont think we need to get into Sarri's time and our defending because we looked out of balance for most of the season.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
102,405
This guy was carried by Barzagli and Chiellini forever and now there isn’t anybody to do the same. Maybe MDL will but that may be tough since he has to take orders from the dumbo wearing the captains armband. Joke of a defender.
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
9,809
Again, there were several plays before Bonucci got turned where we had to react better and not get ourselves in this position.. The ball didnt arrive straight at Caicedo. Cuadrado? Demiral, that was actualy his side, etc... but out of all players, Bonucci is to blame. Doesnt seem right. As for the past games we havent defended well as a team, opponents were rushing at every counter at our defenders so it is more of a tactical issue, than blaming it on Bonucci. I dont think we need to get into Sarri's time and our defending because we looked out of balance for most of the season.
I agree with you other players made mistakes, I even said if players did their job he wouldn't be in that position. But as I said before, that doesn't mean you just stop playing, a defender of his reputation should not be getting turned like that in the box, it is very basic defending regardless of what has gone on before. It is not like he was scrambling to get in a decent position like the goal we conceded v Verona, he was in a good position to deal with Caicedo and simply didn't.

There is no doubt we haven't defended well as a team but too often there are individual lapses from Bonucci and he has not dealt with situations that you would expect your centre back to deal with. There was a clear chance in the first half from him switching off and another half chance from him playing the Lazio attacker onside. Apart from that he was having a good game but those lapses are always there.

Bonucci's lack of defending has been shown up time and time again without Barzagli and Chiellini protecting him over the past few seasons.

We clearly aren't going to agree, you seem fixed in your opinion of him and seem happy to accept that mistakes by other players excuse him. I'm set in my opinion that it was very poor defending. I think we should agree to disagree.
 

Vlad

Senior Member
May 23, 2011
19,394
I agree with you other players made mistakes, I even said if players did their job he wouldn't be in that position. But as I said before, that doesn't mean you just stop playing, a defender of his reputation should not be getting turned like that in the box, it is very basic defending regardless of what has gone on before. It is not like he was scrambling to get in a decent position like the goal we conceded v Verona, he was in a good position to deal with Caicedo and simply didn't.

There is no doubt we haven't defended well as a team but too often there are individual lapses from Bonucci and he has not dealt with situations that you would expect your centre back to deal with. There was a clear chance in the first half from him switching off and another half chance from him playing the Lazio attacker onside. Apart from that he was having a good game but those lapses are always there.

Bonucci's lack of defending has been shown up time and time again without Barzagli and Chiellini protecting him over the past few seasons.

We clearly aren't going to agree, you seem fixed in your opinion of him and seem happy to accept that mistakes by other players excuse him. I'm set in my opinion that it was very poor defending. I think we should agree to disagree.
Bonucci is an easy fall out guy here. Most people tend to focus on the final action that leads to a goal. Im not excusing him and Im fully awear he is error prone at times and cost us goals in the past. But when you are constantly placed in difficult situations and today we may agree he had 5-6 good interventions, maybe even more, at one point odds are gonna stack against you. I still think you are underestimating the difficulty to defend 1 on 1. But yeah, we wont agree over this.
 

Snobist

DareDevil
Apr 16, 2017
10,271
Bonucci is an easy fall out guy here. Most people tend to focus on the final action that leads to a goal. Im not excusing him and Im fully awear he is error prone at times and cost us goals in the past. But when you are constantly placed in difficult situations and today we may agree he had 5-6 good interventions, maybe even more, at one point odds are gonna stack against you. I still think you are underestimating the difficulty to defend 1 on 1. But yeah, we wont agree over this.
It wasnt classic 1vs1 where the attacker is running at you with speed. It was easy task but Bonucci failed, as usual.
 

MikeM

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2008
10,009
Bonucci is not the type of CB that blocks that shot. De Ligt and Chiellini are. So when you build a team, you can decide whether you want a CB that can block that shot or not. And you live with the consequences.

The build-up to that goal was shambolic from everyone involved. Sometimes a CB has to save the game, that's the position.
 

K.O.

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2005
12,429
Bonucci is definitely not taking the majority of blame for that late goal. Not even close. Stop shitting on Bonucci when he's having good games.

He actually save our asses when Demiral was easily beaten on the flank earlier. And overall even Demiral had a pretty good game.
 

Snobist

DareDevil
Apr 16, 2017
10,271
Bonucci is not the type of CB that blocks that shot. De Ligt and Chiellini are. So when you build a team, you can decide whether you want a CB that can block that shot or not. And you live with the consequences.

The build-up to that goal was shambolic from everyone involved. Sometimes a CB has to save the game, that's the position.
Bonucci is the type of CB that costs us points.
 

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