Juventuz Awards 2003 (Finalists) (2 Viewers)

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Hydde ] ++
Usa jUventini and that furio guy are twisted!!! :dazed:

We're just trying to keep the thread light hearted, that's all.


Uh Oh...........Ricky Ricardo Conga moment coming on..................






ARRRIBBBAAA

"Come on baby shake your body do that Conga, I know you can't control yourself any longer..............................."

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Layce Erayce]

and when he is banned it will be because of mob-mentality.

not to mention a conspiracy hatched by pigeons

 

[The Pado]

Lac, my name really is Padovano. My family left Padova for the USA about a hundred years ago. When my mother was pregnant with me, my parents wanted me to be born in Italy, but back then she was not permitted to fly overseas being as far along with her pregnancy. I was born in NJ, and then we moved to Italy for a year. So I lived in Padova and Ischia, but I have no recollection of that. I go to Italy every two years to visit, but I am really not from Padova. Whacka Whacka Speewwww.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++ since the only hint of a Juve doping scandal is from the drunken mind of Zdenek Zeman.

I have to ask ... do you even know what zeman said??
Have you read his statements??
Surely if you had you would not come out with such bollocks

For your information, Zeman did not attack juve alone, as many people who couldnt be bothered to read his words in full like to make out.

He attacked doping in football full stop.. especially in serie a. And to a certain degree northern teams (not only juve)
He mentioned Juve as it was apprpriate to do so as results etc were available that to some extent aided his claims.

He did not go on a one man battle against juve.. He battled against doping

Anyone who is against the stand zeman made is either purely blinkered by their support for juve or is in denial about the level of doping in sport

Anyone against zeman is against a clean sport... If your against a clean sport how the hell can you be a fan of the game.

Go read his papers rather than the cut down crap the media gives you today.
Or look back to the reports when he first made his statements before it became all about juve.

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
If you have been following the doping case, as I have, then you might know why there has not been any evidence against Juve. Yes, Rafael Guarinello has put many witnesses on for questioning, but he is not getting anything he can use. Now, I admit the coverage has been scant, but I would think that if anything tangible has come out in court then it would be front page news. So far, all smoke and mirrors.

You follow the case??

You make me laugh, you come to these conclusions yet you say you have followed the case...

Have you read any of the court transcripts, have you read the articles that have constantly covered the italian news for ages... the constant coverage on italian tv... I dont think you have... Have you??

 

[The Pado]

++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++
and when he is banned it will be because of mob-mentality.

not to mention a conspiracy hatched by pigeons

Only a skinned chicken ass pigeon can ban the great FurioBianconero. I am jacksman see me spew

 

[Hydde]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++

"Come on baby shake your body do that Conga, I know you can't control yourself any longer..............................."

what da fok??? :LOL:

 

[Layce Erayce]

when did u tell inbunbo that?

 

[Layce Erayce]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++


Only a skinned chicken ass pigeon can ban the great FurioBianconero. I am jacksman see me spew

no. you are furio. EYE am jacksman

 

[The Pado]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


I have to ask ... do you even know what zeman said??
Have you read his statements??
Surely if you had you would not come out with such bollocks

For your information, Zeman did not attack juve alone, as many people who couldnt be bothered to read his words in full like to make out.

He attacked doping in football full stop.. especially in serie a. And to a certain degree northern teams (not only juve)
He mentioned Juve as it was apprpriate to do so as results etc were available that to some extent aided his claims.

He did not go on a one man battle against juve.. He battled against doping

Anyone who is against the stand zeman made is either purely blinkered by their support for juve or is in denial about the level of doping in sport

Anyone against zeman is against a clean sport... If your against a clean sport how the hell can you be a fan of the game.

Go read his papers rather than the cut down crap the media gives you today.
Or look back to the reports when he first made his statements before it became all about juve.




You follow the case??

You make me laugh, you come to these conclusions yet you say you have followed the case...

Have you read any of the court transcripts, have you read the articles that have constantly covered the italian news for ages... the constant coverage on italian tv... I dont think you have... Have you??

About Zeman, he actually named Vialli and Del Piero as dopers. Neither of these two professionals have ever tested positive for banned substances, as far as the public knows. To make these accusations about individuals based on suspicion is reckless and damaging to the careers of both Vialli and Del Piero.

About following the case, I meant that I have followed this case in the media. I have not been in the courtroom, and did not realize you were attending the hearings. I also went on to say that the coverage was scant, almost non-existant in the USA. I have had to dig for the inforamtion. I have seen nothing in the press that would closely be considered evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard in criminal law in the USA, but I don't know if it is in Italy. Didn't know you were such a Zeman fan, but he made the comments, he must take the heat.

 

[The Pado]

++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++
when did u tell inbunbo that?

I never did. You are the first.

 

[Layce Erayce]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
For someone who claimed he is Italian and lives in Padova I thought I was making it easier for you...I guess you were lying.

I think he read it in your signature then.

But at least "the sheep man" part is true, isnt it?

 

[The Pado]

++ [ originally posted by [LAC] ] ++


I think he read it in your signature then.

But at least "the sheep man" part is true, isnt it?

Yes, Lac, I am half man and half sheep.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
About Zeman, he actually named Vialli and Del Piero as dopers. Neither of these two professionals have ever tested positive for banned substances, as far as the public knows. To make these accusations about individuals based on suspicion is reckless and damaging to the careers of both Vialli and Del Piero.

As i said this was a very small part of what zeman said.. zemans statements were anti-doping, NOT anti-juve.

As for dp and vialli.. These points were highlighted as an example as physical tests over a few years were publicly available at that time.
These tests showed abnormal iron levels and questionable improvements in certain areas.
From these records you could see the possibility of doping.
Zeman did not out and out say they were doping.. He questioned certain issues and said they COULD be the result of doping

About following the case, I meant that I have followed this case in the media. I have not been in the courtroom, and did not realize you were attending the hearings. I also went on to say that the coverage was scant, almost non-existant in the USA. I have had to dig for the inforamtion. I have seen nothing in the press that would closely be considered evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard in criminal law in the USA, but I don't know if it is in Italy.

Yes i follow the case.
There is lots of info in the italian media ... and all though I personally question much of what has been said , There is questions that have to be answered.
You also seem to forget that the case is not about dp or vialli, it is about wrongful doing by the club (or club doctors)

This is not a typical open and shut case... masses of info must be got through and until it is all revealed a clear picture cannot be seen.
Even then as with all doping cases things are open to a certain level of interpretation.

We will see.. But you shouldnt jus disregard it as rubbish.

As for incubos post (on this issue), from a quick scan, everything he said can be backed up by fact

Didn't know you were such a Zeman fan, but he made the comments, he must take the heat.

Im not a great zeman fan... im a fan of people that stand against doping in general.. people who arent scared to stand up and say what others are thinking but too scared to say.

Im also a longterm follower of doping in sport.
So yes I salute Zeman

 

[The Pado]

Sahdow, this is indeed an unusual case. I have never seen a case drag on for what is now it's sixth year. In fact, after I read your first comment on this today, I saw soccerage.com had posted an article regarding Vialli's opinion of the case, and referenced Zeman's naming him.

I am against doping all the way. That is why I boycott my own country's olympic athletes (USA Track). But I do dismiss this as anti-Juve paranoia because I have been listening to the conspiracy theorists rant against Juve for many years. I just want one of these people to say, "wait a minute, maybe Juve won the scudetto because they are a giant club with a ton of money and they invested in truly great players. These grat players won the day and Juve really was the best in the league". But I continue to hear that it was the referee, or the doping, or agnelli's influence, or Moggi's threats. It has gotten to be crying wolf with me. I am to the point that I refuse to believe any of it. I am numb from the accusations.

That being said, I truly appreciate any information you relay on the doping trial. You seem to have better access than I could ever hope for. cheers.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
I just want one of these people to say, "wait a minute, maybe Juve won the scudetto because they are a giant club with a ton of money and they invested in truly great players. These grat players won the day and Juve really was the best in the league".

Unfortunately padovano, this comes with supporting juve (or many big clubs around the world)... However much we hope people will say the right thing sometimes.. they wont because of who we are.

However we must also be balanced and look objectively at each case.
Though in general those that sling the mud are to biased.

We must put up with it

I too am sick of all the conspiracy bullshit.. but I also accept some of these things have a bit of truth in them and sometimes we must ,as fans ,ask questions of our club as well as defend her.

You must also see the lack of bias we show to other teams as well... there is plenty of similar crap hurled at manu, real, dial square, milan, roma, inter etc etc on this forum.

Being unbiased and equal is hard when you are a fan.

That is one of the reasons I welcome incubo, because he brings a different view.. and to be fair to him I see very few of his points (when in proper debates) that cant be backed up to one degree or another.
I do worry that sometimes people here result to slanging rather than debate with him... No offense to incubo (who is good at what he does) but i dont see a great debater (hes pretty good but not that good), He has clear weakness'es and often (poss purposefully?) leaves a clear in for those that want to debate with him but for some reason I am yet to see anyone take advantage...

I have to ask .. Why??

People arnt gonna beat incubo, or upset him or whatever by turning every thread into an argument.
You need to out debate him, show a reasoned argument... Only once or twice have i seen any hint of this against him, and not once have i seen any of his threads that havent been turned into farce (and mainly at the hands of juventini.. it has to be said) eventually.

People should stand up and prove their point, stand up for their club,
STAND UP FOR FREEDOM (sorry got carried away)

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
Dear Incubo, Padovano is a Criminal Defense Lawyer in the USA. Your statements about the American legal system are idealistic and frankly, inaccurate. All over my State of residence, North Carolina - criminal charges are filed based solely upon the complaint of some alleged victim, i.e. my husband raped me / assualted me; my neighbor is selling drugs from his home, there are cars in and out of there all night long. Criminal charges are filed because police departments are too overburdened to perform a thorough investigation. So the local magistrate swears out arrest warrants, law enforcement serves the warrant, Defendant may or may not bond out of jail before his court date. Then I take the case to trial - but I get paid, I do not do pro bono work (sorry to disappoint). In some jurisdictions, the case can be dismissed at the first setting if there is no probable cause. In others, the District Attorney would rather try the case and lose it rather than dismiss because he does not want the local newspaper to run articles about how he dismissed a domestic violence case in May and the husband killed the wife the following August. District Attorneys are the prosecutors in this country, and they have to run for re-election.

Firstly, I'd like you to tell me where I claimed you had a high school education.
Secondly, you REALLY don't sound like an attorney. I'll break the news flash to you. I have written the New York and Mass. state bar exams. I'm currently in Italy working for an NGO and working on a thesis ...in another field but which also ties into law. Thats all you really need to know. This could get ugly.
All your statements seem re-gurgiated from a "legal system in a nutshell". I may be wrong but the use and selection of your words don't indicate a familiarity with 'legalese' nor does your laymen's notions.
If your scenario was so simple I would have left the DA's office in New York much earlier than when I did (imagine that he worked for the DA in Manhattan ) Read back and you will see that this is not new. More over, as a "lawyer" you probably realize that the Prosecution's job is two fold. Prosecute and the obligation NOT to procede with charges if there is a lack of evidence.
"My husband raped me. I want to file charges." does not mean the husband will have to hire a criminal defense lawyer the day after. Ask Vinman what occurs next. If it was this easy to press charges the dockets would be triple what they are now.
In your scenario any joe blow could press charges against a celebrity, politician, their mother, father, neighbor and according to your scenario the work load of the court docket means that the rules of natural justice i.e. probable cause will not be respected. The police due their 'workload' will first arrest and then ask questions. Judges could issue wiretap warrants without probable cause because they are "busy"? Arrest warrants would be issued because of the case load on that particular day? So justice does not turn on century old concepts developed by Cardozo or Scalia but by the schedule of the officers and judges on that particular day? What you suggested is a breach of a fundamental right guaranteed by the constitution.
Constitutional Law was mandatory was it not?
Are you serious with what you are saying?? Your practically re-writing criminal procedure and denying the most fundamental rights.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
Last thing Gray: I don't have a problem with you either but when your defending people's comments because I supposedly provoke them I see you as a babysitter or Mother Bear protecting her cubs. Seriously, are some of us that immature that if your team's history, wins and rep. is challenged or questioned you are not mature enough to respond with a fact or even an opinion but have to resort to personal attacks. How can you possibly say that its justified??

Hmmm Perhaps my memory's ailing a bit. I honestly don't really remember when i 'Mother Bear'ed the members here. I'm not so much defending people's comments as I'm saying that even if they make mistakes and say stupid things, perhaps you should go about correcting them in a manner which may better preserve their dignity.

Sure, you could say that the same may not have been done to yourself, but to be perfectly honest, a lot of the time, u had it coming

Incubo: Juve's goal was offside...the linesman screwed up..the replay is clear. Whats up with that? Another question mark?!
Reply: Shut up FAGGOT; Get the f*ck out of here; What do you want?
So what we won the scudetto and Dida is gay.

GENERAL VIEW: Hey, you provoked ..you should have known better.

Wow, I said that? If so, my deepest apologies; i was probably fuming at your earlier behaviour on the forum if i did indeed stoop to saying something that low.

Again, I honestly don't remember. Would you be so kind as to point that post out to me? Thx.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

I never said YOU said that...they know who they are.

More over, I had it coming? Again...all comes back to not being able to respond to my Juve criticism and having to resort to personal attacks. I would understand if I was telling 5 year olds that "Barney the dinosaur" sucks but I am pretty sure everyone is mature enough to NOT resort to personal attacks.
Milan sucks? Milan is the team with more scandal? Tell me why...

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
I never said YOU said that...they know who they are.

Phew, I was hoping I didn't say that...

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

More over, I had it coming? Again...all comes back to not being able to respond
to my Juve criticism and having to resort to personal attacks.

(Admittedly much like the Juve fans' criticism of Milan) your Juve crits were usually dead-end statements rather than food for thought, so there was little to respond to.

Sure, the conversations eventually evolved into intelligent football discussions, and maybe some of our fans couldn't hold their own, but even so, as we said in the beginning, you can't go into a man's house and attack him, no matter how you try to justify it. You might be a better fighter than him, and he might cower in the corner calling you names, but nonetheless you can't claim the right to a warm reception.

 

[The Pado]

Incubo, I see why you have an idealistic view of the American justice system - you worked in the D.A.'s office. The D.A. should work in equal measure to prosecute the offenders and to protect the innocent, as justice (and not winning) is the ultimate aim. However, I stand by my words. I know that I am correct, as I live it everyday. You can check Raleigh's newspaper, The News & Observer, and see the expose piece recently published. In 2003, some 20 prisoners were freed due to the fact that the local prosecutors withheld material, exculpatory evidence from the defense. This was evidence that someone other than the defendant had committed the offense, and all were serious felony convictions. Some of the convicted had remained in prison for 18 and 19 years. I think this information should be available online at newsobserver.com. I am certain that this does not only happen in one or two states, either.

How long are you going to be in Rome? Lac, Serge and I could come over for a visit