Juventus: The "Weaker Team Syndrom" (1 Viewer)

[olkiller]

One must acknowledge that Juventus experience major difficulties against weaker european teams. When we get eliminated, it is almost always a surprise.
1997: Borussia Dortmund beat us 3-1 whereas we were ultra-favorites
1998: Real Madrid, clearly inferior to us at the time, defeats us in the the final
1999: Some may protest, but I still reckon we should have knocked MU the fvck out
2000: Celta Vigo humiliates us in the UEFA cup..Any questions?
2001: Panathinaikois shockingly knock us out 3-1 (Hamburg had paved the way)
2002: Same goes for Bayer Leverkusen, which we had previously beaten 4-0
2003: Milan, over 10 p behind us in Serie A, beats us in the final, no comments
2004: Depor; same lake of fighting spirit against a less prestigious team
2005: Liverpool is the icing on that bitter cake

What do you think about this?

 

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[JCK]

It is simply astonishing

 

[swag]

It says that we probably drink our own Kool-Aid a little too much. Or in other words, we are often overconfident and maybe believe in our superiority a little too much -- or what the media tells us.

It's interesting to compare fortunes with Milan over the past several years, where, IMO, they have often underperformed against weaker Serie A competition but have often overperformed against stronger CL competition. An elimination tournament like the CL takes a very different approach than a long and gruelling seasonal campaign such as the Scudetto.

 

[Daddi]

everything is Del Piero's fault, Sell HIM!!!!
nah... sh1t happens... just look at Sweden Hockey...

 

[Azzurri7]

:down:

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by David Del Piero ] ++
everything is Del Piero's fault, Sell HIM!!!!
nah... sh1t happens... just look at Sweden Hockey...

thats because they get their ass kicked by the canadians

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by olkiller ] ++

What do you think about this?

i think that we are a bunch of morons

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
It says that we probably drink our own Kool-Aid a little too much. Or in other words, we are often overconfident and maybe believe in our superiority a little too much -- or what the media tells us.

It's interesting to compare fortunes with Milan over the past several years, where, IMO, they have often underperformed against weaker Serie A competition but have often overperformed against stronger CL competition. An elimination tournament like the CL takes a very different approach than a long and gruelling seasonal campaign such as the Scudetto.

Exactly Greg. I actually think our Juventus is built to win the Serie A, however no where near ready to win the Champions League. Our team is like a machine with only one function; plugging away at the same pace without any dynamic elements. So our Juve is able to keep chugging away match after match in Serie A, however when we need a spark for the aggregated CL ties, the machine cannot turn out anything spectaculor or work above it's designated capacity. Moggi needs to tune up this machine so we are able to produce more on the European front.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by olkiller ] ++2003: Milan, over 10 p behind us in Serie A, beats us in the final, no comments

What do you think about this?

Milan was ANYTHING BUT the weaker team that year Bud....that score line is not indicative of what really happened...at the end when Milan knew Serie A was out of reach they let the last 3 games slide causing many losses in points.
More over, in the two match ups that season Juve and Milan each won. Milan were winter season champs and began to slide in the second half of the season to small teams in which they basically gave the Scudetto to Juve.
In the final .. although it was decided by PK it was clear what team controlled the match from beginning to end...no doubt there. IN fact, Milan played in 10 men for 15 minutes and juve was still not able to get a shot on net.
Hardly the WEAKER TEAM.. PLEASE

 

[Bjerknes]

Oh here we go with the penalties nonsense again.

It's like clockwork from you Nick.

 

[Juve_Kosova]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Milan was ANYTHING BUT the weaker team that year Bud....that score line is not indicative of what really happened...at the end when Milan knew Serie A was out of reach they let the last 3 games slide causing many losses in points.
More over, in the two match ups that season Juve and Milan each won. Milan were winter season champs and began to slide in the second half of the season to small teams in which they basically gave the Scudetto to Juve.
In the final .. although it was decided by PK it was clear what team controlled the match from beginning to end...no doubt there. IN fact, Milan played in 10 men for 15 minutes and juve was still not able to get a shot on net.
Hardly the WEAKER TEAM.. PLEASE

this guy!! arghhh! no comment!

 

[- vOnAm -]

Interesting data there.
To change the team attitude we need fresh players with great hunger, then we need them to stay away from the media that highly over rates us.

 

[Manni]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
It says that we probably drink our own Kool-Aid a little too much. Or in other words, we are often overconfident and maybe believe in our superiority a little too much -- or what the media tells us.

*agrees* :down:

As soon as the draw was made the media put Juve in to the SF and players like Buffon and Emerson were saying that it would be "difficult" but Juve would see off Liverpool with ease. Erm.....yeh.

Milan have always performed better on the European stage as opposed to Serie A, hence their 6 european cups and 17 league titles. Compare this to Juve's 2 ECs and 27 scudetti, and you can see that we're not a 'complete' european unit.

It must not be forgot that of the last 9 EC finals, the Bianconeri have been in 4 of them though, so they must be doing something right....

 

[Amash]

Yes we have this weaker team syndrom. In CL when we get in the game as underdogs we can win anyone if we get in the game as a favorites things are getting heavy

 

[olkiller]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Exactly Greg. I actually think our Juventus is built to win the Serie A, however no where near ready to win the Champions League. Our team is like a machine with only one function; plugging away at the same pace without any dynamic elements. So our Juve is able to keep chugging away match after match in Serie A, however when we need a spark for the aggregated CL ties, the machine cannot turn out anything spectaculor or work above it's designated capacity. Moggi needs to tune up this machine so we are able to produce more on the European front.

I agree. In the long run, we are great. But we lack some decisive sparks as you said, but I believe it is also a matter of culture: we are too defensive-minded and players like Del Piero, Ibrahimovic or Nedved do not have enough "latitude" and freedom to do what they have to...Catenaccio may win you scudetti, but hardly any cups and I remember that each time we got to the finals it was because we had displayed some great attacking football against teams like Real Madrid, Manchester United, Ajax, Monaco, Borussia. The 1st Lippi Squad was much more balanced than the current Juventus. Even Juve in 2003 was much better than the team that have been ridiculously knocked out by Liverpool. Capello had asked not to concede a goal first and THEN try to score ONE to go through on away goals. We all know what happened. Even if we had 10 great offensive away midfielders, I think Capello would still field a strong, compact, defensive eleven. Bringing in either Cassano or Gila won't change much. If you take a closer look on Italian press, you'll find a myriad of analysis describing Del Piero & Baggio as "Victims of Italian tactics"...So it is not a matter of players to me, it's a deeper issue than this.
That aside, I was so impatient to see how Juve would perform against Chelski and get to draw some comparisons with Barcelona. This CL is definitely unfair, but we hardly deserved to win it.
As for the "Syndrom", it is evident that we do much better when we come up as underdogs and not favourites. We still need the drive for it.

 

[ZAF3000]

++ [ originally posted by Juve_Kosova ] ++



this guy!! arghhh! no comment!

I am still waiting for his answers from our old thread... So don't bother.

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by olkiller ] ++
One must acknowledge that Juventus experience major difficulties against weaker european teams. When we get eliminated, it is almost always a surprise.
1997: Borussia Dortmund beat us 3-1 whereas we were ultra-favorites
1998: Real Madrid, clearly inferior to us at the time, defeats us in the the final
1999: Some may protest, but I still reckon we should have knocked MU the fvck out
2000: Celta Vigo humiliates us in the UEFA cup..Any questions?
2001: Panathinaikois shockingly knock us out 3-1 (Hamburg had paved the way)
2002: Same goes for Bayer Leverkusen, which we had previously beaten 4-0
2003: Milan, over 10 p behind us in Serie A, beats us in the final, no comments
2004: Depor; same lake of fighting spirit against a less prestigious team
2005: Liverpool is the icing on that bitter cake

What do you think about this?

add that 96 season to this list,I say this is success.
but the problem is we are playing ugly football,I fall sleep everytime I watch Juve.we need little changes.
Just get rid of DEL PIERO:fero:

 

[olkiller]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++


add that 96 season to this list,I say this is success.
but the problem is we are playing ugly football,I fall sleep everytime I watch Juve.we need little changes.
Just get rid of DEL PIERO:fero:

What you say is non-sense. DP led us to 4 finals...The problem is our current culture, not a player in particular.
If you wanna pick up a player, look @ how Ibra screwed an easy ball just in front of dudek...As an italian editorialist wrote: 'Had it been Del Piero, he would have been crucified"
End of discussion

 

[olkiller]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


Milan was ANYTHING BUT the weaker team that year Bud....that score line is not indicative of what really happened...at the end when Milan knew Serie A was out of reach they let the last 3 games slide causing many losses in points.
More over, in the two match ups that season Juve and Milan each won. Milan were winter season champs and began to slide in the second half of the season to small teams in which they basically gave the Scudetto to Juve.
In the final .. although it was decided by PK it was clear what team controlled the match from beginning to end...no doubt there. IN fact, Milan played in 10 men for 15 minutes and juve was still not able to get a shot on net.
Hardly the WEAKER TEAM.. PLEASE

Look look Incubo, don't get too excited...Everyone rated Juve much better than Milan and we were undoubtedly favourites. Maybe that you, as a Milan fan, were certain of your victory...But feven among Milan players, everyone had to admit Juve was the stronger team.
As for the match, except the offside goal and Inzaghi's header, what domination are you talking about? We hit the crossbar and went close a couple of times but we were certainly NOT overwhelmed...Dude, the game was decided on Pens, that says it all!
We got past Depor, Barcelona & real in that CL, u got Ajax & Inter (whom we'd beaten 3-0 and were way behind us in serie A just like u were)
Had Nedved been there, the scoreline would've been 3-0...
IN THAT FINAL YOU WERE THE UNDERDOGS...

 

[Amash]

If Juve weren't favorites in that bloody finals of 2003 Juve would win 1000%. Milan were favorites throughout the whole competition but before finals Juve were declared as favorites