juve, serie a, italian football. it's all blurring together for me (1 Viewer)

taem

Junior Member
May 1, 2011
97
#1
The 2009 season, when we were chasing the scudetto, I found myself wondering, "what then? This is not enough." For so many years I strutted, confident in the knowledge my club was best, most historic, in the top league in the world. But Serie A is no longer the top league. To go from best in the tops, to best in an also-ran, that can never be enough for me because it is less than what I had. How can Juve ever reclaim the glory, when Italian football as a whole seems so diminished?

Arsenal never won a European title and yet they gained fans by the legion; Inter did win a European title and it felt like Borussia Dortmund winning a one-off, the narrative was Barca's loss, not Inter's win. Milan beat Liverpool; but not like Liverpool beat Milan. In financial papers I often read about team valuations, and revenue, and the fact the Juve are always in there somehow only seems to underscore how much more valuable Barca are, how much more revenue United pull in. Inter and Milan may be able to land top players, but all the young guys with huge potential all seem to want English Premiere League. Money isn't the only reason; there is a buzz and hype about that league that Serie A cannot match.

And of course we have lost a Champions League spot. It is as if Serie A's decline is being officially recognized by UEFA. "Coefficient." It is such a cold and relentless word, that term. What can one do agaist "coefficient"? It is mathematical, it is inescapable, one can only submit.

This was all happening long before calciopoli. There was a grand convergence of big media, big corporations, and a burgeoning global audience, and Serie A seems never to have caught the wave. It was not a fall, except by comparison; others went higher while Italian football stayed put. For a decade now I have seen countless countrymen who despised soccer-football become Arsenal fans, United fans. I now see young Latino lads wearing Chelsea jerseys, Gerrard jerseys. And with the rise of Javier Hernandez, United red now seems a required uniform for playing in the park on weekends. Milan, Inter, Juve, these are not to be seen, those names are not to be heard.

I almost feel like I've come full circle. I was introduced to Serie A by an old Italian immigrant, my earliest days of following Juventus were not matches televised live on FSC or streamed on ESPN3, it was sitting in a tiny barbershop listening to old men discuss the Gazetta and Tuttosport, with VHS highlights doled out in stingy doses on a tiny tv in the corner. I took it from there, going from glossy magazines like Footballer, to the www, to satellite tv. It was a march to the future, and with each new era, Juventus were there, not just keeping pace, but leading the pack. But now? Now it feels like a vacation in Vegas a while back with a writer friend, sleeping at the historic but scheduled to be demolished Stardust, hanging out with old cabbies and local grinders who remembered the Brat Pack, listening to stories of the days when the mob ruled the Strip, not Sony and Time/Warner. Serie A to me now has that feel, of Sinatra photos on a wood paneled wall in an era of Lady Gaga remixes at the Palm. I feel like I'm back in Enzo's shop. This no longer feels modern.

I hope all this is an American perspective, shaped by the fact that this is an English speaking country with a natural affinity for the Premiereship, that in Europe, Serie A is vital as ever, and Juventus as popular as ever. I have this dreadful feeling this is not the case though. I have seen the television share ratings in countries like Singapore, Japan, and Korea, and Serie A is simply not there. The Latino kids here should have no natural affinity for Anglo-Saxon football and yet that is the league they follow.

So where does this leave me? For so many years Serie A was for me a gallery of enemies and chumps. If I wasn't hating on the other side on match day, I was laughing. No more. For me, Juve must win not only for itself, but for Serie A and all Italy. And as a Juve fan I now root not only for Juventus, but for Serie A and Italy. These will not be popular positions here, in fact this will be sacrilege, but I was glad Inter beat Barca; I was crushed when Schalke humiliated Inter only to be manhandled by United. I don't even want to talk about Milan's collapse in 2005 when I lost the right to boast of Italian defense. I would even love for Balotelli to lead EPL in scoring. If Juve can't have it, then I want a Serie A team to have it, if a Juve player cannot shine, then let it at least be an Italian. I don't want Berlusconi to fall no matter how creepy he is because I fear what would happen to Milan. I have even ordered Berlitz Italian on Amazon.com so I can follow Tuttosport.

Whew sorry bit of a rant, actually a lot of a rant. I get this way around this time of year as of late. But does anyone else have this sort of feeling going on? Or is it same as always for you guys and you simply don't see the decline I speak of? All I know is I want the swagger back, I want my old conceits back, and as things stand now, the scudetto alone won't get me there. I have no idea what would, or if it's even possible.
 

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Fake Melo

Ghost Division
Sep 3, 2010
37,077
#3
Top post bro.
Serie-A is not popular here in Norway either. PL and LL is way ahead in fanbases. I completely understand you regards to defending Italian football.

When I am discussing football with my stupid friends they go on with where is Juve? All I can defend myself with is other Italian clubs being better than the PL and La liga teams.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,444
#4
Good post and all. :tup:

But....

And this required a new thread why again? :(

Like no one has ever thought in the history of Juventuz to think of and post something remotely like this ever before?
 

WΏΏdy?

Senior Member
Dec 23, 2005
14,997
#5
Top post bro.
Serie-A is not popular here in Norway either. PL and LL is way ahead in fanbases. I completely understand you regards to defending Italian football.

When I am discussing football with my stupid friends they go on with where is Juve? All I can defend myself with is other Italian clubs being better than the PL and La liga teams.
Are u able to defend yourself using that? With the CL final between a EPL team and la liga team? :p





Good post and all. :tup:

But....

And this required a new thread why again? :(

Like no one has ever thought in the history of Juventuz to think of and post something remotely like this ever before?
:agree:
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,194
#6
Bla bla bla. When will you people realise? Let's talk again in 10-15 years. Things will be completely different. Or not. Hell, INTER WON THE CL LAST SEASON.

Fuck this shit. If you've been watching football for this long you should realise these things go in cycles.
 
OP
taem

taem

Junior Member
May 1, 2011
97
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #7
    Like no one has ever thought in the history of Juventuz to think of and post something remotely like this ever before?
    Sorry if it's repetitive, but I've only now signed up on Juve specific boards. Up until now I've been alone in a sea of newly converted EPL fans on the sporting sub-boards of sites not dedicated to football. I don't doubt many others have felt something like this, tho I couldn't be sure, but I wonder if that has led others to where I am, to where they would root for Inter and Balotelli.

    Bla bla bla. When will you people realise? Let's talk again in 10-15 years. Things will be completely different. Or not. Hell, INTER WON THE CL LAST SEASON.

    Fuck this shit. If you've been watching football for this long you should realise these things go in cycles.
    Over here the narrative was Barca lost the CL, not Inter won it. And is it a cycle? I would love for that to be the case. But what's happening now does not seem to be that, to me; it's something new. When Juve was at its height, this audience simply was not here, and first impressions count for so much. I fear Singapore and Korea are Liverpool, United territory for the foreseeable future, no matter how many UCL titles Serie A can rack up.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,444
    #8
    WΏΏdy;3013166 said:
    It's nothing personal, taem. What's great about Juve fans now compared to recent years is that you know that fellow fans are not in it just for the gloryhounding. (Ain't that for sure.) :flag1:

    But when people start new threads because they have a thought like this, when others often already had something very similar before, it sort of trods all over them as if to suggest their similar thoughts and ideas like this are irrelevant compared to yours. You see what I mean by that?

    There are team threads that have discussed similar topics before. Starting a new one here suggests you don't care to listen to what others have similarly said in the past and that the attention should be on you instead, because your opinion matters more than more long-time posters here.

    Just a heads-up is all...
     

    Fake Melo

    Ghost Division
    Sep 3, 2010
    37,077
    #9
    WΏΏdy;3013166 said:
    Are u able to defend yourself using that? With the CL final between a EPL team and la liga team? :p
    Italy winning WC06, and AC Milan and Inter Milan winning two CLs in the past 4-5 years :D
     

    Paid-off-Ref

    Senior Member
    Dec 16, 2004
    4,102
    #11
    I have no idea why Italian teams and the Italian running body did nothing to prevent this. To me this was clear just after the turn of the century. It was so obvious marketing was the way to go and everybody else was doing it. I remember in 2003 we were financially bigger than Real Madrid and Barcelona and only behind Manchester United in revenue. Then Spanish clubs, English clubs (and even German clubs to an extent) started expanding their balance sheets and invested a lot in marketing and exciting players that created buzz. Real Madrid galatico period brought new attention to Spanish football and Barcelona suddenly had the most exciting player in the world in their team (Ronaldinho). They basically continued the trend ever since and now they are twice as large as us when it comes to income. See before that we were lending Barcelona our undesirables (Edgar Davids) unlike now when we accept players that don't make their first team.
    Italian teams failed to realize that marketing had become more important than before. What bugs me is that it was just SO obvious and I remember being frustrated in 2004 that we weren't really doing anything about that. I don't think it's too late, things change quickly in football, but I don't see Italian teams doing anything about it (us being the exception by building a new stadium).
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    111,531
    #13
    I have no idea why Italian teams and the Italian running body did nothing to prevent this. To me this was clear just after the turn of the century. It was so obvious marketing was the way to go and everybody else was doing it. I remember in 2003 we were financially bigger than Real Madrid and Barcelona and only behind Manchester United in revenue. Then Spanish clubs, English clubs (and even German clubs to an extent) started expanding their balance sheets and invested a lot in marketing and exciting players that created buzz. Real Madrid galatico period brought new attention to Spanish football and Barcelona suddenly had the most exciting player in the world in their team (Ronaldinho). They basically continued the trend ever since and now they are twice as large as us when it comes to income. See before that we were lending Barcelona our undesirables (Edgar Davids) unlike now when we accept players that don't make their first team.
    Italian teams failed to realize that marketing had become more important than before. What bugs me is that it was just SO obvious and I remember being frustrated in 2004 that we weren't really doing anything about that. I don't think it's too late, things change quickly in football, but I don't see Italian teams doing anything about it (us being the exception by building a new stadium).
    Arrogance allowed this to happen. Just like the arrogance of the Prem will be its eventual downfall, both from the fans and the financiers.
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,194
    #14
    I have no idea why Italian teams and the Italian running body did nothing to prevent this. To me this was clear just after the turn of the century. It was so obvious marketing was the way to go and everybody else was doing it. I remember in 2003 we were financially bigger than Real Madrid and Barcelona and only behind Manchester United in revenue. Then Spanish clubs, English clubs (and even German clubs to an extent) started expanding their balance sheets and invested a lot in marketing and exciting players that created buzz. Real Madrid galatico period brought new attention to Spanish football and Barcelona suddenly had the most exciting player in the world in their team (Ronaldinho). They basically continued the trend ever since and now they are twice as large as us when it comes to income. See before that we were lending Barcelona our undesirables (Edgar Davids) unlike now when we accept players that don't make their first team.
    Italian teams failed to realize that marketing had become more important than before. What bugs me is that it was just SO obvious and I remember being frustrated in 2004 that we weren't really doing anything about that. I don't think it's too late, things change quickly in football, but I don't see Italian teams doing anything about it (us being the exception by building a new stadium).
    We still are.
     

    blondu

    Grazie Ale
    Nov 9, 2006
    27,404
    #15
    Bla bla bla. When will you people realise? Let's talk again in 10-15 years. Things will be completely different. Or not. Hell, INTER WON THE CL LAST SEASON.

    Fuck this shit. If you've been watching football for this long you should realise these things go in cycles.
    even if inter won it, italian football is in a big hole. Juventus (as always) leads the pack to a brighter future by building a modern stadium that is ours. This is the first step, stadiums, big money invested in clubs and success in ucl and europa league. We need that ucl spot back..
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,444
    #16
    WΏΏdy;3013183 said:
    They dont remind you of spain winning the most recent world cup final? :D
    There's something to be said about that. The fortunes of Italy and the fortunes of Juve, while we'd like them to be separate, are very much interconnected.

    Italy's decision in 2006 to go the calciopoli route probably did a lot of short-term, motivating good to win the WC. But it did serious damage to the league and the talent outflux that resulted has depleted it -- not to mention how Italy's finances are also full of holes. (This is another area where I think it's no coincidence that Germany now has more CL spots: they are also much more healthy financially than Italy.)
     

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