Juve cling on to 'tainted' titles (1 Viewer)

Sep 14, 2003
5,800
#61
++ [ originally posted by Codino ] ++
i liked his point though.
-in the olympics, athletes are stripped of gold if found guilty of doping, so why not the same here.-

im not for it, but it does raise a good argument.

Because only Davids has failed a drugs test, no other Juve players have despite being tested.
 

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ZAF3000

Senior Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,348
#64
The other day (I think coupel of months ago) there was an interview with Lippi and Zeman.. Where Zeman attacked Juve infront of Lippi.. Sir Lippi got really pissed off and that was very clear. Sir Lippi replied to Zeman's claims saying "How about if we check Lazio's history, or the history of all the clubs and players you've coached up to this day. I am sure you won't be very pleased with the out come.. He is accusing Juventus of doping in the time that I was a coach.. Meaning he is accusing me. I won't deffend myself, but I will just say that I didn't do any thing illeagal.

This is what Lippis said (Hope I remembered it correctly).

FORZA LIPPI.
 

ZAF3000

Senior Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,348
#65
++ [ originally posted by Holdon ] ++



Because only Davids has failed a drugs test, no other Juve players have despite being tested.
Davids failed a drug test after returning from a match with the Dutch internationl team. De Beor failed the same test the same time.. Why are they claiming this on Juve?
 

Juve89

The Farmer
May 27, 2004
3,420
#66
++ [ originally posted by ZAF3000 ] ++
The other day (I think coupel of months ago) there was an interview with Lippi and Zeman.. Where Zeman attacked Juve infront of Lippi.. Sir Lippi got really pissed off and that was very clear. Sir Lippi replied to Zeman's claims saying "How about if we check Lazio's history, or the history of all the clubs and players you've coached up to this day. I am sure you won't be very pleased with the out come.. He is accusing Juventus of doping in the time that I was a coach.. Meaning he is accusing me. I won't deffend myself, but I will just say that I didn't do any thing illeagal.

This is what Lippis said (Hope I remembered it correctly).

FORZA LIPPI.
A good answer from Lippi:)
Forza Lippi!
 

jussiut

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2005
431
#67
Indeed, forza Lippi! I'd prefer him over Capello any day.

I can't wait to hear how some are going to deny Zeman's hypocrisy. It's going to be great.
 

ZhiXin

Senior Member
Oct 1, 2004
10,321
#69
++ [ originally posted by ZAF3000 ] ++


Davids failed a drug test after returning from a match with the Dutch internationl team. De Beor failed the same test the same time.. Why are they claiming this on Juve?
So does Stam, when he juz went to Lazio.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#70
++ [ originally posted by Codino ] ++
i liked his point though.
-in the olympics, athletes are stripped of gold if found guilty of doping, so why not the same here.-

im not for it, but it does raise a good argument.
yeah thats a good point,
the corruption of WADA who favours and protects the richest nations is something clear, we know who control the olympics, they also try to test specific athletes and forget to control some,
but the difference is, we dont know so clearly, yet, who controls the italian justice system, only test juve and forget some others,
although i have a vague idea:devil:
 

Codino

The Rival
Jul 21, 2002
1,394
#71
lets just hope it gets all sorted out accoringly :)

but.... in the mean time when juve play lecce, im guessing war is on the cards.
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#72
When we get our third star,and our fourth and fifth,Milan and Inter fans will always point to this incident.It will haunt us for decades to come.
 

jussiut

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2005
431
#74
I don't think this accusation has such a huge impact in years to come. Sure, this doesn't look good but everybody knows, especially if we succeed in the coming years, that Juve is at the top for the right reason, and that reason is our quality.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#75
So Zeman is the problem is he? I will never understand how people whom should be emabarassed by the whole squalid affair are looking at Zeman as a scapegoat. Why don't you ask yourselves how a player like Toricelli who is totally ordinary will play like some wonder in a certain period and be complete rubbish once he has left Juve, and now we discover he might have lied under oath? Ditto to Tacchinardi et al

Up till today we are still buying players who are very average but what they have going for them is work ethic and not ball skills as to me these are players who are more likely to take dope, not the skilful ones.

Its a disgrace that only 1 or 2 people get jail terms for what has been a very diabolical sequence of events.

Yes its okay to support your club in times of trouble but its folly to support doping and please give me a break with all that crap that we are not the only ones that did it.

In that productive period, only Dp and Zz are players with touch , the rest of them are all about power and work ethic and likelyhood of doping.

I would have preferred so much more ppl being docked as they are a disgrace to football. This is not like Mutu or Maradona that took cocaine, this is taking Epo and its CHEATING.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#77
Dear denco i respect u and ur post a lot, u are pure quality most of the times, but this time i cant agree;
as i posted before as grecul:
-many players came in and out this period of time, some of them did good but the most did better when they left, even zz with his current age, is in a better form now than he was then,
if then he was after doping then what is he now at this age?
most of the players we give away are prooved to be less than we expected to be, its normal to underperform after they leave.

-juve is a top club with top players and stuff,
ALL the professional clubs use medical help on their players,
we have the best doctors around and the best medicine, we know the exact doses for maximum results, we have the best nutricians, the best fisiotherapists, we perform thousand of tests on every player and train him exactly where he needs to be improved,
this is y our effects give better result, we are better as a team in every way than the others, how can we compared with others?

we fight their war, with their weapons,
do u think a normal dude can match the speed, stamina or power of any seria A player?this is because of their work on the field only?

a small team like zeman s lecce will take smth cheap without knowing the long term effects, will make a burst at the beginning of the season, sell players and then play as they play now,
have u seen the muscular growth on chivu 2months after he joined roma? have u noticed how much period he left because of accidentations?
have u noticed the "rebirth" of inzaghi?
Have u noticed how physical was kaka last year?
how explosive was gattuso? the speed power and stamina of the old mans cafu and maldini?

we are guilty only because we have better results,
we did a professional job, at least our efforts gave some results,
the thousands of the smaller football club players who really doped to have performances from people who hardly know what to do are more innocent?
what they did offered to football and most important to their lifes?

but u havent noticed any of this, u just have noticed what zeman said,
its not ur fault, u are just a thinking person,
the fault is on the people and media who want and have the power to control the truth, they can test and accuse only the ones who want without care about what is fair or truth

PS:excuse my english ask me if u cant understand smth, i ll try to explain
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#78
++ [ originally posted by Cronios ] ++
Dear denco i respect u and ur post a lot, u are pure quality most of the times, but this time i cant agree;
as i posted before as grecul:
-many players came in and out this period of time, some of them did good but the most did better when they left, even zz with his current age, is in a better form now than he was then,
if then he was after doping then what is he now at this age?
most of the players we give away are prooved to be less than we expected to be, its normal to underperform after they leave.

-juve is a top club with top players and stuff,
ALL the professional clubs use medical help on their players,
we have the best doctors around and the best medicine, we know the exact doses for maximum results, we have the best nutricians, the best fisiotherapists, we perform thousand of tests on every player and train him exactly where he needs to be improved,
this is y our effects give better result, we are better as a team in every way than the others, how can we compared with others?

we fight their war, with their weapons,
do u think a normal dude can match the speed, stamina or power of any seria A player?this is because of their work on the field only?

a small team like zeman s lecce will take smth cheap without knowing the long term effects, will make a burst at the beginning of the season, sell players and then play as they play now,
have u seen the muscular growth on chivu 2months after he joined roma? have u noticed how much period he left because of accidentations?
have u noticed the "rebirth" of inzaghi?
Have u noticed how physical was kaka last year?
how explosive was gattuso? the speed power and stamina of the old mans cafu and maldini?

we are guilty only because we have better results,
we did a professional job, at least our efforts gave some results,
the thousands of the smaller football club players who really doped to have performances from people who hardly know what to do are more innocent?
what they did offered to football and most important to their lifes?

but u havent noticed any of this, u just have noticed what zeman said,
its not ur fault, u are just a thinking person,
the fault is on the people and media who want and have the power to control the truth, they can test and accuse only the ones who want without care about what is fair or truth

PS:excuse my english ask me if u cant understand smth, i ll try to explain
Thanks for your praise and sorry i didnt actually recognise your posts as u guys change names way too much thats its hard to keep up.

Let me go point by point with you with your post which was a good argument for your cause.

First of all Zidane is playing better or seems to be playing better now than when he was with us because of 2 main factors, SerieA is too negative for one and he is playing with better players now, and when i say better i mean players with more skill. La liga is more open and so he can exhibit his football skills, better and he always played better in Cl for us because it was more open and he had a great understanding with Dp and Inzaghi cos they were on the same wavelengh.

Gatusso just got better cos he is playing with good players, Maldini and Cafu with Costacurta have basically kept themselves in very good shape and in Cafu's case he can run forever thats natural not something which just came up and suddenly disappeared.In Juve, Nedved has that quality but I tell you what, when an athlete continues to have knee or ankle problems its sometimes drug related. Inzaghi and Vieri are products of Juventus and nowadays always seem to be injured, does that tell you something?

Now lets come to Juventus, Torricelli, Conte, tacchinardi, Birindelli, Montero,Pessotto, Dp, Sousa and so many others all seem to be injury prone and all have the frighteningly similarity of losing and gaining form at alarming irregularity.

Milan actually play football thats understandable, Juve do not and its usually power play based not skill based
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,412
#79
-on zz its not only the way he is playing,
i was reffering on his athletic form,
the age and the lack of erythropoietin( he no more gets any EPO in the innocent real) doesnt seem to affect his stamina, on the contrary, he seems sometime he can run more than 1998.
lets burn him, juve and give the world cup to innocent brazil who had the better skill.

-maldini, cafu and costacurta are natural cases, but di livio deshamps and conte arent?

-RhEPO is a well-tolerated medicament, which has almost no adverse effects (terapeutical use on anaemie)
so all the accidentations alex had were caused by EPO?
a hard taclin breaking his leg isnt enough?
God punished juve bringing accidentation to everysingle player who used EPO,
My point is, its not a rule epo brings accidentations, its only a theory of tendecity to accidentations.

-profesor conconi(the EPO devil) was revealed, justice prevailed, and anti-doping laws made to face EPO are SINCE 1998,
the use of EPO prior to this data wasnt a crime!
every team on seria A could affort 150$/dose of epo 3 times weekly for 8-12 weeks to improve their players stamina at~15%,
so juve souldn t use EPO and play with a 15%handicap,
the introduced EPO only lasts in the body for a short time (as little as 24 hours) but its stimulus effect continues for as long as two weeks, how tempting!!!
but only juve, Russia, China and the former East Germany used banned substances!
ALL the others are innocent?

how the hell do we know that?
why they dont spend some time just to check 2-3 FClubs more?
they are trying to proove juve evil soooo many years,
who funds those endless searchings, a small part of those couldnt just check another team?
why so many years all the tries are focused on juve and only?
why some countries, players, clubs are protected and some are put to pay everybody sins?
why this dead story is keep coming after great "avocato"s death?

because life isnt fair, its all about power, we currently dont have the power to defend our selves and attack back as we sould,
this is the time for our enemies on power to attack,
its not about justice,
we sould pay the sins of mankind,
we are the team to blame for everything.
 

jussiut

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2005
431
#80
Yes its okay to support your club in times of trouble but its folly to support doping and please give me a break with all that crap that we are not the only ones that did it.
Nobody else did it? One more time, I don't defend Juve's actions and I hate doping in football. All I'm saying is that Zeman is a hypocrite and that I'm not starting to undervalue our accomplishments.

That would be a joke of the year to have Juve strip of all of its titles during that period. And that is a joke to say that Juve was the best only because of doping. I'm even laughing now, hahahaha! :D

EDIT: And now that I read the following posts, I must wonder even more. Are you really being serious when you say that no other team used/uses doping? Oh my god, you're being really naiive! And I'm not saying this as an excuse for what Juve has done, I'm saying this because it seems most people have been brainwashed by Zeman and think that Juve is the bad apple here and everyone else are just victims.
 

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