Israeli-Palestinian conflict (40 Viewers)

[Tomice]

How about all those [sub] humans who have been left without a son, brother, father, mother etc. I doubt that they are going to be less pissed off than any Hamas guy. And now there are a whole bunch of them.
So I guess it makes sense for IDF to go on killing them all whether they're Hamas or not.

You can sell this artificial separation of Hamas and the Palestinians people to westrenes, not me.

Hamas are not some aliens who came down from mars and took over. They are a product of Palestinian society, culture and education. Not discounting Israeli responsibility as well, we do cary some of the blame for the conditions that allowed this.

But people have responsibility for thier government or leadership actions, same as we Israelis carry responsibility for ours. This effort to separate the two is artificial, obvious and convenient.

On October 7th half of the participants in the massacre were ordinary, non affiliated Palestinian, who murdered, raped and burned women and child. Support for Hamas went up in the west bank after the 7th, this is the uncomfortable reality.

 

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[Quetzalcoatl]

Why does Hamas exist in the first place?

 

[Mohad]

Are you really disputing Hamas using civilians as cover?

The term "human shields" was being used even before Hamas was formed, and it's been a political and military excuse to justify using excessive and unfair force on civilians.

In my post I was referring to the videos and claims we hear from the IDF about schools and hospitals, but so far, we haven’t seen any solid proof to back those claims.

 

[Tomice]

The term "human shields" was being used even before Hamas was formed, and it's been a political and military excuse to justify using excessive and unfair force on civilians.

In my post I was referring to the videos and claims we hear from the IDF about schools and hospitals, but so far, we haven’t seen any solid proof to back those claims.

Or even simpler, it is a proven tactic that terror organisations have been using for centuries.

But anyway I have seen it with my own two eyes. This is why if find this all show and dance ludicrous.

 

[Mohad]

Why does Hamas exist in the first place?

A result of the oppression.

 

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[Fab Fragment]

You can sell this artificial separation of Hamas and the Palestinians people to westrenes, not me.

Hamas are not some aliens who came down from mars and took over. They are a product of Palestinian society, culture and education. Not discounting Israeli responsibility as well, we do cary some of the blame for the conditions that allowed this.

But people have responsibility for thier government or leadership actions, same as we Israelis carry responsibility for ours. This effort to separate the two is artificial, obvious and convenient.

On October 7th half of the participants in the massacre were ordinary, non affiliated Palestinian, who murdered, raped and burned women and child. Support for Hamas went up in the west bank after the 7th, this is the uncomfortable reality.

But you didn't answer my question. Since I doubt any of the Palestinians or Lebanese love you guys any more, isn't it kosher to kill them all? Because all you guys are doing right now is creating hatred and more blood thirsty enemies.

 

[Ronn]

A result of the oppression.

Hamas’ funding is largely coming from Iran, which is not really oppressed by Israel (at least not until now). How would that fit in the narrative of oppression? Iranian religions fanatics using Palestinian flesh and blood as tools of their silly proxy war against Israel doesn’t bother you?

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Im not deflecting, Im mirroring. And even if? wth is wrong with you? How far from reality are you willing to go to justify your stand? Even if lol.
On the off chance? Not even close to reality.

And throwing a token Hamas is guilty as well is not remotely balanced or worse, its morally corrupt.
Not defending Hamas is far from demanding from them what you demand of us, your kind are enabling them to keep going, stroking your sense of mortality, at the expanse of ordinary Palestinians lives.

They are much more guilty no matter how harshly you want to judge Israel's reaction.
They started this and no mental gymnastics will erase that.
They can stop all of this in an instant but did you once asked for that? No, you just want Israel to stop, this will happen again somewhere down the road if we don't ends this. But its not your children.
Where are the rallies in the west for Hamas to disband? Were are your cries for Hamas to disarm, release the hostages and leave gazans alone?

Non of it, you have no dog in this fight, just appeasing your sense of mortality.

I do find it tragic, and I do hurt having civilians killed in mess. Don't need anyone here to believe it. I do.

And with that the only way this ends and people stop dying in gaza is if we achieve our goals, I do believe it with all my heart, this is what allows me to be a part of this, in somewhat good enough conscience.

As long as Hamas are there this will never end. This is why this criticism from westerners doesn't bother me. I see this as a necessary evil, and Im not denying it is, we just don't have the luxury to put amorphic morals over our future.

Is that bolded line a justification for having no red lines? If eliminating Hamas means killing every Palestinian in Gaza would you support that in good conscience?

 

[Tomice]

But you didn't answer my question. Since I doubt any of the Palestinians or Lebanese love you guys any more, isn't it kosher to kill them all? Because all you guys are doing right now is creating hatred and more blood thirsty enemies.

What was 7th October? Show of love? Hizbulla terror attacks? Bombing buses and restaurants? That didn't create more hatred and bloodthirsty Israelis? Take a look in the mirror for once, it goes both ways.

Anyway, stop playing innocence. We aren't innocent ,sure as hell the arabs around us aren't as well, not in 48 not before or since.

 

[Fab Fragment]

What was 7th October? Show of love? Hizbulla terror attacks? Bombing buses and restaurants? That didn't create more hatred and bloodthirsty Israelis? Take a look in the mirror for once, it goes both ways.

Anyway, stop playing innocence. We aren't innocent ,sure as hell the arabs around us aren't as well, not in 48 not before or since.

Correct. The world started on Oct 7th.

 

[Tomice]

Hamas’ funding is largely coming from Iran, which is not really oppressed by Israel (at least not until now). How would that fit in the narrative of oppression? Iranian religions fanatics using Palestinian flesh and blood as tools of their silly proxy war against Israel doesn’t bother you?

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Is that bolded line a justification for having no red lines? If eliminating Hamas means killing every Palestinian in Gaza would you support that in good conscience?

Of course not, it's a fine line already. I don't believe it ever comes to that.

And no, I wouldn't support that and I wont ever think its a realistic possibility. I think we are pretty close to what we can "afford", for lack of better word

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Correct. The world started on Oct 7th.

It didn't. However far you want to go the point stands. Nice try though

 

[Ronn]

Of course not, it's a fine line already. I don't believe it ever comes to that.

And no, I wouldn't support that and I wont ever think its a realistic possibility. I think we are pretty close to what we can "afford", for lack of better word

But what you can “afford” is really the point here. Israel killed 43k civilians to avenge 1200 people killed in October 7. That’s almost a 36 to 1 ratio. How is that justified? How can you support that?

 

[Mohad]

Hamas’ funding is largely coming from Iran, which is not really oppressed by Israel (at least not until now). How would that fit in the narrative of oppression? Iranian religions fanatics using Palestinian flesh and blood as tools of their silly proxy war against Israel doesn’t bother you?

The oppression has been ongoing for decades, not just recently, and because of that, resistance groups like Hamas and Fatah were formed. The people in Gaza officially chose Hamas to represent them.

As for the Iranian regime and how they are stirring up conflicts in the region, that definitely somthing that bothers me.

 

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Shana tova, btw @Tomice

 

[kappa96]

You can sell this artificial separation of Hamas and the Palestinians people to westrenes, not me.

Hamas are not some aliens who came down from mars and took over. They are a product of Palestinian society, culture and education. Not discounting Israeli responsibility as well, we do cary some of the blame for the conditions that allowed this.

But people have responsibility for thier government or leadership actions, same as we Israelis carry responsibility for ours. This effort to separate the two is artificial, obvious and convenient.

On October 7th half of the participants in the massacre were ordinary, non affiliated Palestinian, who murdered, raped and burned women and child. Support for Hamas went up in the west bank after the 7th, this is the uncomfortable reality.

Pretty much. The mental gymnastics are staggering . Just look at the Muslims on this thread .
It's always Israel this , Israel that...., instead of Israeli government or Israeli officials .
But when it comes to Hamas
It's always Hamas this , Hamas that.... Palestinians that support Hamas in the at least 80%, should be left alone, lol, like they didn't elect or represent them.
It's very hypocritical but not surprising .

PS why the f' do we say that Hamas launched 5000 missiles on Israel on 7 of octomber when we should say that " The Palestinians launched 5000 missiles on 7 of octomber ..." cause this is the game they play. This thread stands evidence of this.

 

[Seven]

Im not deflecting, Im mirroring. And even if? wth is wrong with you? How far from reality are you willing to go to justify your stand? Even if lol.
On the off chance? Not even close to reality.

And throwing a token Hamas is guilty as well is not remotely balanced or worse, its morally corrupt.
Not defending Hamas is far from demanding from them what you demand of us, your kind are enabling them to keep going, stroking your sense of mortality, at the expanse of ordinary Palestinians lives.

They are much more guilty no matter how harshly you want to judge Israel's reaction.
They started this and no mental gymnastics will erase that.
They can stop all of this in an instant but did you once asked for that? No, you just want Israel to stop, this will happen again somewhere down the road if we don't ends this. But its not your children.
Where are the rallies in the west for Hamas to disband? Were are your cries for Hamas to disarm, release the hostages and leave gazans alone?

Non of it, you have no dog in this fight, just appeasing your sense of mortality.

I do find it tragic, and I do hurt having civilians killed in mess. Don't need anyone here to believe it. I do.

And with that the only way this ends and people stop dying in gaza is if we achieve our goals, I do believe it with all my heart, this is what allows me to be a part of this, in somewhat good enough conscience.

As long as Hamas are there this will never end. This is why this criticism from westerners doesn't bother me. I see this as a necessary evil, and Im not denying it is, we just don't have the luxury to put amorphic morals over our future.

I believe you care about human life. I do not think of you as a bad person.

Hamas did not 'start' this.

This is a conflict that has been going on since before Hamas existed. When, not if, Israel's genocide is examined, that examination will not be limited to events after October 7. They will take into account the decades of Israeli persecution before as well.

No one has defended Hamas. Not a single soul in the West has deemed it wise or necessary to do so. But Israel and its citizens keep coming back to this as a deflection tactic. Criticising Israel is not the same as justifying Hamas.

You might care about the life of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. Israel and its government do not. Their actions have time and time again demonstrated as much. I know you refuse to accept this. Israel have bombed a refugee camp in a specific spot they told refugees they'd be safe. And the reasoning is always the same. We 'have' to do this. No, you don't. You want to. The collateral damage of civilians is not something that pains Israel, rather they use it as an instrument of fear. Israel are happy when civilians die. Their actions show as much.

Cut the bullshit.

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[Fab Fragment]

Of course not, it's a fine line already. I don't believe it ever comes to that.

And no, I wouldn't support that and I wont ever think its a realistic possibility. I think we are pretty close to what we can "afford", for lack of better word

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It didn't. However far you want to go the point stands. Nice try though

I can give you a long list of atrocities that you have committed if you would like me to plaster it over here. Please let me know.
And you still have very conveniently evaded my question if its kosher to kill all the people who have lost a loved one because now they don’t need any Iran or Hamas recruit them.
I really think that you guys should wipe out the whole of the middle east, Asia and Africa. That way you'll probably get rid of all the pesky subhumans.

 

[kappa96]

I can give you a long list of atrocities that you have committed if you would like me to plaster it over here. Please let me know.
And you still have very conveniently evaded my question if its kosher to kill all the people who have lost a loved one because now they don’t need any Iran or Hamas recruit them.
I really think that you guys should wipe out the whole of the middle east, Asia and Africa. That way you'll probably get rid of all the pesky subhumans.

I can play this hypocritical game. We are on.
I can give you a long longer list of the atrocities you have committed starting with the invasion of the Bizantine empire.

 

[Fab Fragment]

I can play this hypocritical game. We are on.
I can give you a long longer list of the atrocities you have committed starting with the invasion of the Bizantine empire.

And I'm not going to argue with that. I admit and fully agree that Muslims have had their fair share of absolute monsters as well. And there still are plenty of such shameless animals around.

 

[Ronn]

The oppression has been ongoing for decades, not just recently, and because of that, resistance groups like Hamas and Fatah were formed. The people in Gaza officially chose Hamas to represent them.

As for the Iranian regime and how they are stirring up conflicts in the region, that definitely somthing that bothers me.

I’d argue Hamas in its current form has nothing in common with an anti-oppression force. They’re acting more as an Iranian proxy allowing Iranian rulers to pursue their war against Israel without committing Iranian bodies.