Israeli-Palestinian conflict (20 Viewers)

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

When Eddy said that, the whole IQ for the forums dropped 45 points.

Bismillah, Al-Ra7man, Al-Ra7eem.


I'm going to bed.


ميكائيل بيرك

Is OUT!

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Bjerknes]

Good views these...

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Let me explain you something to understand me a little better. Probably no Armenian will say the things I will, but this the reality. At the war times in the beginning of the 20th century, Armenians were suffering from the Ottoman regime, just like your people was suffering all the years from Israelis. So Armenians were frustrated as much as your people were (not just Armenians only, the whole people/non-Turks in the area). We had this extremist nationalist group/movement called Tashnag (it still exists till today). While the Ottomans were on war here and there, our Tashnag decided to attack the civilians while the Turkish army was away, and others joined the Russian army. and you know very well the rest of the history. Your Ottoman heroes got frustrated, and decided to end Armenian ethnicity, and that resulted a loss over million and the rest escaped from death all over the world. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon Iran etc, THAT's GENOCIDE!!

if they decided to end Armenian ethnicity they could do it.Armenians who were living in west provinces of Turkey continued their daily life.After what happened( you explained it in your post) Ottomans decided to exile Armenians who are causing endless problems in east provinces.Their journey wasn't comfortable as we were in a world war.people died because of poverty and illness and some isolated incidents.those officals who treated badly armenians during the relocation, punished by court as ottomans had a law about protecting those people.

I don't tell you history,i am posting it for others.if you want to discuss it we can open another thread about this issue.

 

[Il Re]

1300 palestinians dead a third of which are children, 13 israeli's dead, 10 who were soldiers.......................

 

[CheSchifo!]

The way I see it there are two options:

a) Both parties finally truly get together and work out a solution that is possible for both. And not some bullshit like Palestinians being third grate citizens in a bigger state of Israel. A party such as Hamas does not help reach this goal. If your argument is that Israel should disappear, you're not getting closer to an agreement.

b) All Palestinians die. Hamas could help them do so.

Mind you, this is not about what I think is right. It's about what I think will happen.

 

[Eddy]

Actually they do in Isalm
your problem is that you talk about Islam like something you 100% know from head to toe which is not true

before you advice me i suggest u read about
Islam and Secularism

If you r interestd then you can start from:
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=116

No, I don't know Islam head to toe, and yes I read your link and no, they don't in Islam or any other religion. This link you provided me not only goes to Islam, but all the other religions so your argument is lost again.

 

[BlanquiNegro]

No, I don't know Islam head to toe, and yes I read your link and no, they don't in Islam or any other religion. This link you provided me not only goes to Islam, but all the other religions so your argument is lost again.

Ok as u like

 

[Eddy]

if they decided to end Armenian ethnicity they could do it.Armenians who were living in west provinces of Turkey continued their daily life.After what happened( you explained it in your post) Ottomans decided to exile Armenians who are causing endless problems in east provinces.Their journey wasn't comfortable as we were in a world war.people died because of poverty and illness and some isolated incidents.those officals who treated badly armenians during the relocation, punished by court as ottomans had a law about protecting those people.

I don't tell you history,i am posting it for others.if you want to discuss it we can open another thread about this issue.

Poverty and Illness...what about the other Turks in the eastern provinces...if we died of poverty and illness, not only us, the Pontic greeks at Trebizond as well, what about Turks, why didnt they die of poverty and illness ? Were they immortal ? No Turk, they were systemtically planned to deportation and starvation..my great-grandmother who died in 97 was a witness, she was one of the survivors of that long deportation group. They took her out to the Eastern deserts leading to Syria and shot everyone in line, luckily, a bullet grazed through her head and survived. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here and writing this reply to you. They didn't kill Armenians in West provinces because, one, they were given a chance to convert to Islam and if not, they were killed, and two, they were extremely rich or had friends in high places and three, they had Ottoman nationality. Obviously not every Turk at that time was evil nor are they now. For god's sake, there are witnesses, some still alive today, quotes, trial accounts, red-cross workers, Turkish historians, the list goes on...

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Poverty and Illness...what about the other Turks in the eastern provinces...if we died of poverty and illness, not only us, the Pontic greeks at Trebizond as well, what about Turks, why didnt they die of poverty and illness ? Were they immortal ? No Turk, they were systemtically planned to deportation and starvation..my great-grandmother who died in 97 was a witness, she was one of the survivors of that long deportation group. They took her out to the Eastern deserts leading to Syria and shot everyone in line, luckily, a bullet grazed through her head and survived. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here and writing this reply to you. They didn't kill Armenians in West provinces because, one, they were given a chance to convert to Islam and if not, they were killed, and two, they were extremely rich or had friends in high places and three, they had Ottoman nationality. Obviously not every Turk at that time was evil nor are they now. For god's sake, there are witnesses, some still alive today, quotes, trial accounts, red-cross workers, Turkish historians, the list goes on...

what happened in that time doesn't suit term of genocide.it wasn't an ethnic cleansing.if they were eager kill them they wouldn't took them to deserts then shot.Two nations lost a lot of people during that time. we should think about what made them enemies after living peacefully for centuries.

 

[Eddy]

what happened in that time doesn't suit term of genocide.it wasn't an ethnic cleansing.if they were eager kill them they wouldn't took them to deserts then shot.Two nations lost a lot of people during that time. we should think about what made them enemies after living peacefully for centuries.

Let's be a little logical here Turk. Why would the soldiers or whoever they were take the Armenians out to the desert and kill them, and I quote you "if they were eager kill them they wouldn't took them to deserts then shot ?" Well, let's ask ourselves why did the Nazis take the Jews to concentration camps where no one was allowed to enter and were killed. If you are planning to exterminate a group or race of people, you will not tell the world you will, nor will you show it. You will deny it. Who's going to clean all those Armenian bodies of the street if you kill them instantly and not take them out to the desert. Let the sand swallow them up instead and no one will know what had taken place there.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Let's be a little logical here Turk. Why would the soldiers or whoever they were take the Armenians out to the desert and kill them, and I quote you "if they were eager kill them they wouldn't took them to deserts then shot ?" Well, let's ask ourselves why did the Nazis take the Jews to concentration camps where no one was allowed to enter and were killed. If you are planning to exterminate a group or race of people, you will not tell the world you will, nor will you show it. You will deny it. Who's going to clean all those Armenian bodies of the street if you kill them instantly and not take them out to the desert. Let the sand swallow them up instead and no one will know what had taken place there.

you're saying they shot everyone and your grand mother survived, told everbody what happened.well, when armenians started to took village folk( i mean women and children because army was gone) in a mosque then cut their head with a sword,one woman survived,she lost her scalp but survived.then she told what happened to his family and other people.events like this made some people lose their temper.some officers acted wrongfully.they didn't listen the orders and did illegal things.There are written documents from Ottoman goverment about protecting those people during delocation and punishing officals who treated them badly.genocide term can be used only if an ethnic cleansing organized by goverment.

 

[CheSchifo!]

what happened in that time doesn't suit term of genocide.it wasn't an ethnic cleansing.if they were eager kill them they wouldn't took them to deserts then shot.Two nations lost a lot of people during that time. we should think about what made them enemies after living peacefully for centuries.

If that's not a genocide, then how can you even think about claiming the Gaza war to be a genocide?

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

If that's not a genocide, then how can you even think about claiming the Gaza war to be a genocide?

did i use genocide term? i said it is a massacre but they would gladly kill every muslim if they had power to do it.

 

[Eddy]

you're saying they shot everyone and your grand mother survived, told everbody what happened.well, when armenians started to took village folk( i mean women and children because army was gone) in a mosque then cut their head with a sword,one woman survived,she lost her scalp but survived.then she told what happened to his family and other people.events like this made some people lose their temper.some officers acted wrongfully.they didn't listen the orders and did illegal things.There are written documents from Ottoman goverment about protecting those people during delocation and punishing officals who treated them badly.genocide term can be used only if an ethnic cleansing organized by goverment.

Remember who was occupying who at that time Turk. Retaliation is human nature, no matter what. If a country's people is being wiped out, you will not sit down and do nothing. If we compare what happened then to now to the Israeli-Palestine conflict, Hamas is equivalent to Tashnak and the Young Turks who were ruling at that time were commiting atrocities like the Israelis are doing now. I don't even support Tashnak and I never will and I will tell you that retaliation is wrong no matter what but it is human nature. We all know our limits, or at least knew.

 

[Eddy]

did i use genocide term? i said it is a massacre but they would gladly kill every muslim if they had power to do it.

Which is genocide, they will glady remove a race from the earth, and a religious one too. It's one of the steps to reaching "genocide".

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Remember who was occupying who at that time Turk. Retaliation is human nature, no matter what. If a country's people is being wiped out, you will not sit down and do nothing. If we compare what happened then to now to the Israeli-Palestine conflict, Hamas is equivalent to Tashnak and the Young Turks who were ruling at that time were commiting atrocities like the Israelis are doing now. I don't even support Tashnak and I never will and I will tell you that retaliation is wrong no matter what but it is human nature. We all know our limits, or at least knew.

i don't understand your logic.those lands were ours for last 1000 years and i don't think we were occupation force in there.Situation at Ottoman Empire in WWI and what is happening in Palestine after WWII aren't comparable.

 

[Nenz]

Good views these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FydkAd-IEgQ&feature=related

that guy knows his shit

 

[Eddy]

i don't understand your logic.those lands were ours for last 1000 years and i don't think we were occupation force in there.Situation at Ottoman Empire in WWI and what is happening in Palestine after WWII aren't comparable.

Ahh, thousands of years yes, you just gave in to Seven's theory, why stop in 1948 ? Why stop in 2005 or 2009 for the Palestinians? And you also gave in to Ireland's independance, see they were occupied for 700 years before they got free. If you were English with this mentality, your answer would have been exactly what you told me right now on your quote. Turk, you're better than this and you're acting exactly like the Israeli mentality...what will happen in a thousand years when Israel has already taken Palestine, I can see their answer being similiar to yours.

A Jew to a Palestinian a thousand years later: I don't understand your logic, those lands were ours for 1000 years and I dont think we were occupying in force there.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Ahh, thousands of years yes, you just gave in to Seven's theory, why stop in 1948 ? Why stop in 2005 or 2009 for the Palestinians? And you also gave in to Ireland's independance, see they were occupied for 700 years before they got free. If you were English with this mentality, your answer would have been exactly what you told me right now on your quote. Turk, you're better than this and you're acting exactly like the Israeli mentality...what will happen in a thousand years when Israel has already taken Palestine, I can see their answer being similiar to yours.

A Jew to a Palestinian a thousand years later: I don't understand your logic, those lands were ours for 1000 years and I dont think we were occupying in force there.

by this logic,borders of %99 of countries in the world should change because they occupied another one's lands sometime in history.

We are living in 2000's,borders aren't change like they changed in past.Nothing remain same,everything has changed as centuries passed.

Palestine issue is different, it's not like they will occupy Palestine and stop.

Iraq
Syrie
Royaumde Jordanie
Arabie
Egypte
Liban

promised lands,globalization,war because of water,WWIII

ring bell?

 

[Eddy]

by this logic,borders of %99 of countries in the world should change because they occupied another one's lands sometime in history.

We are living in 2000's,borders aren't change like they changed in past.Nothing remain same,everything has changed as centuries passed.

Palestine issue is different, it's not like they will occupy Palestine and stop.

Iraq
Syrie
Royaumde Jordanie
Arabie
Egypte
Liban

promised lands,globalization,war because of water,WWIII

ring bell?

Don't put words in to my mouth. I never said borders should change and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is similar to the Armenian one 95 years ago. It doesn't matter if thousands of years have passed by and you still occupy someone's land, that race will never forget it and will always fight back. You brought this "1000 years" theory which you think by time, you think it's still okay for Turks to have Armenia in Ottoman Empire after all that occupation. No it is not. What about a 1000 years before that, was there no Armenia ? Did you not occupy ? And if a 1000 years pass, you think it's still alright because you said you've had it for a thousand years.

It is exactly like how Palestinians will live in Israel in the near future and Iraq, Syria and all those countries you mentioned in your quote, if Israel takes them, it's exactly like how the Ottomans had taken other countries in the past history regardless of promised lands and globalization etc with their policy. You wanted to make all the people around you "Ottoman". That's okay Turk, but not if the people don't want to. Because it means their identity, religion and cultural values will be lost.

My point is that no country should be occupied by a foreign invader and live under their rules and their power if or when their people don't want to.