Israeli-Palestinian conflict (64 Viewers)

[GianniAgnelli]

Honestly Poll killing me.. Hamas is a Terrorist Organization without doubt.. The only one i cant understand.. Is that arabic ppl HERE on juventuz.com vote "no" only coz they are arabic - not coz they really understand the situation..

 

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[Bjerknes]

Very often(on the phone mostly, can't see him that much), but only when I'm in Lebanon. He called me one day before the 2006 summer war, asking me to leave my place because it's going to be a target and he announced me that war will take place. Man, it was right after Italy won the WC, and I was only 2days in Lebanon. I barely saw my relatives.

Anyway, we never talk when I'm in Romania, he doesn't speak on the phone.

That's pretty interesting, brother. Obviously he wouldn't want to talk on the phone.

I'd ask you if he told you any important information we should know but I wouldn't want to compromise Hezbollah information against Israel.

 

[Bjerknes]

Honestly Poll killing me.. Hamas is a Terrorist Organization without doubt.. The only one i cant understand.. Is that arabic ppl HERE on juventuz.com vote "no" only coz they are arabic - not coz they really understand the situation..

Please tell us why Hamas is more of a terrorist organization than Israel.

I'm sure a Palestinian such as Rebel would be interested to know.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Honestly Poll killing me.. Hamas is a Terrorist Organization without doubt.. The only one i cant understand.. Is that arabic ppl HERE on juventuz.com vote "no" only coz they are arabic - not coz they really understand the situation..

Some of them don't understand the situation and talk like they think they are supposed to talk out of some misguided form of solidarity. However I have to say that I believe that most members understand this situation better than you give them credit for.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Please tell us why Hamas is more of a terrorist organization than Israel.

I'm sure a Palestinian such as Rebel would be interested to know.

That's not the question, Andy. You keep on using that sort of thinking as a line of defense, but it isn't. It makes it more understandable, but it doesn't take away the crime.

 

[Bjerknes]

That's not the question, Andy. You keep on using that sort of thinking as a line of defense, but it isn't. It makes it more understandable, but it doesn't take away the crime.

The whole terminology of "terrorist organization" can be skewed to mean whatever officials want at the moment. If a government is not accepted by the majority of nations, then people conclude it's not a government despite the electorate supposedly voting them into office. If the group tries to defend itself, then the majority of nations label it a terrorist organization. That's not fair.

Of course true terrorist organizations do exist, but for instance I don't really think an Al Qaeda exists. I think that is a fabricated term more than anything else. But Hamas was elected by their people (supposedly, but there are rumors that Israel tried to install them to counter Fatah), so they should be considered a government entity.

 

[Bjerknes]

I saw today that the Israelis did not allow Muslims to enter a Jerusalem mosque inside the wall structure today, with IDF soldiers standing over them during a prayer session.

 

[CheSchifo!]

The whole terminology of "terrorist organization" can be skewed to mean whatever officials want at the moment. If a government is not accepted by the majority of nations, then people conclude it's not a government despite the electorate supposedly voting them into office. If the group tries to defend itself, then the majority of nations label it a terrorist organization. That's not fair.

Of course true terrorist organizations do exist, but for instance I don't really think an Al Qaeda exists. I think that is a fabricated term more than anything else. But Hamas was elected by their people (supposedly, but there are rumors that Israel tried to install them to counter Fatah), so they should be considered a government entity.

I know that in general we have accepted democracy as the basis for a legitimate government. So, yes, we should accept Hamas as a government entity. The mistake a lot of people seem to make is that according to them a democratic government can't be responsible for terrorist attacks. Of course they can. Democracy doesn't justify violence. If that was the case, any democratically elected government could wage war on other nations without apt punishment.

 

[ReBeL]

Honestly Poll killing me.. Hamas is a Terrorist Organization without doubt.. The only one i cant understand.. Is that arabic ppl HERE on juventuz.com vote "no" only coz they are arabic - not coz they really understand the situation..

Elaborate please.

Please tell us why Hamas is more of a terrorist organization than Israel.

I'm sure a Palestinian such as Rebel would be interested to know.

Indeed.

I saw today that the Israelis did not allow Muslims to enter a Jerusalem mosque inside the wall structure today, with IDF soldiers standing over them during a prayer session.

That happens at all Fridays since 1967, Andy.

 

[ReBeL]

I know that in general we have accepted democracy as the basis for a legitimate government. So, yes, we should accept Hamas as a government entity. The mistake a lot of people seem to make is that according to them a democratic government can't be responsible for terrorist attacks. Of course they can. Democracy doesn't justify violence. If that was the case, any democratically elected government could wage war on other nations without apt punishment.

And what is your definition for terrorism?

 

[CheSchifo!]

And what is your definition for terrorism?

More importantly, what's yours? Why does democracy exclude terrorism? Having a democratic government doesn't mean that government is always right and I'm starting to think that's why a lot of you think Hamas can't be a terrorist organisation.

 

[Vinman]

The whole terminology of "terrorist organization" can be skewed to mean whatever officials want at the moment. If a government is not accepted by the majority of nations, then people conclude it's not a government despite the electorate supposedly voting them into office. If the group tries to defend itself, then the majority of nations label it a terrorist organization. That's not fair.

Of course true terrorist organizations do exist, but for instance I don't really think an Al Qaeda exists. I think that is a fabricated term more than anything else. But Hamas was elected by their people (supposedly, but there are rumors that Israel tried to install them to counter Fatah), so they should be considered a government entity.

you're my boy, but this is total nonsense......

 

[CheSchifo!]

you're my boy, but this is total nonsense......

Andy looks like someone who just discovered that not everything the government tells him is true. He used to defend the US a bit too much and now he's doing the opposite. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like. I would almost call it a phase .

 

[Bjerknes]

I know that in general we have accepted democracy as the basis for a legitimate government. So, yes, we should accept Hamas as a government entity. The mistake a lot of people seem to make is that according to them a democratic government can't be responsible for terrorist attacks. Of course they can. Democracy doesn't justify violence. If that was the case, any democratically elected government could wage war on other nations without apt punishment.

I agree wholeheartedly, and nations should be accountable for terrorist attacks. But we never hear anything about governments being charged for terror attacks. The whole Iraq War was one big terrorist attack on their people, yet terrorism is not the terminology used. Governments perform and stage terror attacks all the time, yet we are conditioned to think that such a notion is either conspiracy theory or a needed action for national security. We wage war against something called terrorism, when in fact anybody could be a terrorist. So what we have here are words without any substance, used to justify opinions or actions against a people, which is similar to terminology such as Occam's Razor or "Conspiracy Theory", to stifle thinking and collective thought. It is meaningless.

So my point is, if one can claim Hamas is a terrorist organization, then one has to admit the IDF is also a terrorist organization for it to have any validity, despite what some law terminology claims as it is more sensical that way.

 

[ReBeL]

More importantly, what's yours? Why does democracy exclude terrorism? Having a democratic government doesn't mean that government is always right and I'm starting to think that's why a lot of you think Hamas can't be a terrorist organisation.

Democracy has nothing to do with terrorism. US government are elected democratically but they are spreading terror all over Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine by killing civilians and making people leave their own countries because of fear. Aren't they terrorist?

 

[CheSchifo!]

I agree wholeheartedly, and nations should be accountable for terrorist attacks. But we never hear anything about governments being charged for terror attacks. The whole Iraq War was one big terrorist attack on their people, yet terrorism is not the terminology used. Governments perform and stage terror attacks all the time, yet we are conditioned to think that such a notion is either conspiracy theory or a needed action for national security. We wage war against something called terrorism, when in fact anybody could be a terrorist. So what we have here are words without any substance, used to justify opinions or actions against a people, which is similar to terminology such as Occam's Razor or "Conspiracy Theory", to stifle thinking and collective thought. It is meaningless.

So my point is, if one can claim Hamas is a terrorist organization, then one has to admit the IDF is also a terrorist organization for it to have any validity, despite what some law terminology claims as it is more sensical that way.

But perhaps that's because it is not entirely necessary to call it terrorism, because when nations are involved, there's already an abundance of legal terms available. I agree though, the word "terrorism" is void of meaning right now.

 

[Bjerknes]

you're my boy, but this is total nonsense......

It's hard to know if it really does exist. Of course there are true "terrorist" organizations out there, but I think the usage of Al Qaeda is terminology for all of the separate extremist groups that would want to do harm for us. It's somewhat of a stereotype, so to speak.

 

[CheSchifo!]

Democracy has nothing to do with terrorism. US government are elected democratically but they are spreading terror all over Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine by killing civilians and making people leave their own countries because of fear. Aren't they terrorist?

Yes. And by that question you yourself admit that Hamas are terrorists as well.

 

[JCK]

Andy, you're now making it sound like we live in the Matrix

 

[Ahmed]

you're my boy, but this is total nonsense......

Al Qaeda was a term coined by the CIA in the 1980s during the Afghan-Soviet war