Israeli-Palestinian conflict (56 Viewers)

[ReBeL]

The guy is pretty much a beast. Perfect guy for the Chief of Staff job. I've heard a lot of good things about him. The only beef people have with him is his Jewish connection. If that's the worst thing about him, I think we'll be ok. In American politics it's difficult not to find someone without some sort of Jewish connection. Hell it's hard to find people in America who don't have some sort of Jewish connection through family.

We all know why Israel launched the offensive.

Two reasons:
1) The cease fire ended on Dec 17 so Israel saw it basically as a window between then and the inauguration to handle their business. Which leads to the second reason 2) Bush is still in office and has been as pro Israel as any President and was in no way going to disagree with blowing up a bunch of brown people because after all that's what he does every morning as he takes his morning coffee. Obama has spoken about using conversation instead of missiles since his days in the Illinois legislature. So it's pretty safe to say that he would definitely not be in favor of the action in Gaza.

I don't think so.

 

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[Enron]

I don't think so.

And you know this because?

 

[Vinman]

The guy is pretty much a beast. Perfect guy for the Chief of Staff job. I've heard a lot of good things about him. The only beef people have with him is his Jewish connection. If that's the worst thing about him, I think we'll be ok. In American politics it's difficult not to find someone without some sort of Jewish connection. Hell it's hard to find people in America who don't have some sort of Jewish connection through family.

We all know why Israel launched the offensive.

Two reasons:
1) The cease fire ended on Dec 17 so Israel saw it basically as a window between then and the inauguration to handle their business. Which leads to the second reason 2) Bush is still in office and has been as pro Israel as any President and was in no way going to disagree with blowing up a bunch of brown people because after all that's what he does every morning as he takes his morning coffee. Obama has spoken about using conversation instead of missiles since his days in the Illinois legislature. So it's pretty safe to say that he would definitely not be in favor of the action in Gaza.

is the bolded part supposed to be a joke ?

as far as your reasons go, why not add in the fact that Hamas has continually built up an arsenal of missiles, as well as finances to buy more weapons for the imminent showdown with Israel, and continue to fire rockets/missiles into Israel

Hamas has said countless times that their main objective is the destruction of the Israeli state, and they wont budge on that declaration. So, Israel has decided to destroy Hamas before they get any stronger.

Its unfortunate that many innocent people are going to be killed in the process.....

 

[Il Re]

is the bolded part supposed to be a joke ?

as far as your reasons go, why not add in the fact that Hamas has continually built up an arsenal of missiles, as well as finances to buy more weapons for the imminent showdown with Israel, and continue to fire rockets/missiles into Israel

Hamas has said countless times that their main objective is the destruction of the Israeli state, and they wont budge on that declaration. So, Israel has decided to destroy Hamas before they get any stronger.

Its unfortunate that many innocent people are going to be killed in the process.....

thats exactly what bush said when he invaded iraq

 

[Vinman]

thats exactly what bush said when he invaded iraq

no he didnt...

he said "where's 'dat 'som bitch Hossein ?""

 

[jukazem]

i was talking about zionists.every jew isn't zionist.no religion would sacrifice millions but zionism is not religious. it is a racialist movement like nazies.zionism is all about seizing territories and ruling whole world at the end.Their materialist aim can give up on millions life.

Geez! I didn't even know that the Jews and the Zionists were different. I still don't know what Semitism is, as in the difference between Jews and Semitic.

<<http://nkuk.org>> - That website helped my understanding to some extent and I believe the info in that website is relevant to the debate here.

 

[Ahmed]

Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political ideology/movement

 

[ReBeL]

And you know this because?

Because if you check some history, you'll find that Rahm Emanuel's father was in the same terrorist group with Tzibi Livni's father. That group made the massacres that led to establish Israel on the land of Palestinians in 1948.

So, he is not another normal Jewish political character, but rather an extremist Zionist activist.

It's really a small world, and it's dirty too, unfortunately.

 

[Enron]

Because if you check some history, you'll find that Rahm Emanuel's father was in the same terrorist group with Tzibi Livni's father. That group made the massacres that led to establish Israel on the land of Palestinians in 1948.

So, he is not another normal Jewish political character, but rather an extremist Zionist activist.

It's really a small world, and it's dirty too, unfortunately.

Oh I know all that, but it hardly matters here. Emanuel has been a wonderful public servant in his career and was the best candidate for his position. Just because his father was part of Irgun doesn't mean Emanuel is the same guy.

I think you'll see that Obama wants to do good things for everyone regardless of their ethnicity or religion.

 

[ReBeL]

Oh I know all that, but it hardly matters here. Emanuel has been a wonderful public servant in his career and was the best candidate for his position. Just because his father was part of Irgun doesn't mean Emanuel is the same guy.

I think you'll see that Obama wants to do good things for everyone regardless of their ethnicity or religion.

Lawrence Davidson wrote this in November 2008:

I would like to try to contextualize Emanuel and his relationship with Israel -- at least from my point of view.

First, is he an Israeli citizen? Rep. Emanuel's father is Israeli, his mother is Jewish, and he saw fit to serve the needs of the Israeli war machine. There can be little doubt that, from the Israeli perspective, he is an Israeli citizen. This is the case de Jure due to his mother's religion and also de facto because of his own behavior. The US government under the influence of the Zionist lobby, has created convenient technical loopholes so that it can be legally asserted that the case is otherwise. However, I think what is important here is the man's behavior and not the technicalities.

Second, Did he "serve" in the IDF? Well, as far as we know he did not go through Israeli basic training and induction. He was not posted to the OT with a regular unit. But he did show up as a volunteer for the IDF. He placed himself under IDF command. He serviced their machines. He aided and abetted their war efforts in Lebanon. So, once more, in terms of behavior (the facts on the ground, shall we say) he served in the Israeli army. Although, a technical argument can be made that he did not. As far as I am concerned, it is behavior that should define reality here.

Third, Will Rep. Emanuel serve as an "agent of a foreign power" in his role as Chief of Staff? There can be no doubt that in terms of his domestic politics, Rep. Emanuel is a liberal, even a progressive fellow. But in terms of foreign policy he has been a staunch supporter of Israel. Even when he advocated for the Palestinian students stuck in Gaza (and he did write a letter on their behalf) he referred to them as victims of the violence of their Palestinian elders. There is no reason to doubt that Obama has placed a consistent advocate for Israel at the very heart of the White House on day after his election! There is something rather indecent about this haste. And it gives strength to Ralph Nader's recent characterization of Obama as, alas, a routine political opportunist.

You can read this too:

Is Obama Screwing His Base with Rahm Emanuel Selection?


Obama has asked conservative Clinton vet Rahm Emanuel to be his chief of staff -- it's not a good sign for progressives.

I had really wanted to celebrate Barack Obama's remarkable victory for a day or so before becoming cynical again. I really did.

And yet, less than 24 hours after the first polls closed, the president-elect chose as his chief of staff -- perhaps the most powerful single position in any administration -- Rahm Emanuel, one of the most conservative Democratic members of Congress.

The chief of staff essentially acts as the president's gatekeeper, determining with whom he has access for advice and analysis. Obama is known as a good listener who has been open to hearing from and considering the perspectives of those on the Left as well as those with a more centrist to conservative perspective. How much access he will actually have as president to more progressive voices, however, is now seriously in question.

Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel is a member of the so-called New Democrat Coalition (NDC), of group of center-right pro-business Congressional Democrats affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Conference, which is dedicated to moving the Democratic Party away from its more liberal and progressive base. Numbering only 58 members out of 236 Democrats in the current House of Representatives, the NDC has worked closely with its Republican colleagues in pushing through and passing such legislation as those providing President Bush with "fast-track" trade authority in order to bypass efforts by labor, environmentalists and other public interest groups to promote fairer trade policy.

Emanuel began his political career as a senior adviser and chief fundraiser for the successful 1989 Chicago mayoral campaign of Richard M. Daley to seize back City Hall from reformists who had challenged the corrupt political machine of this father, Richard J. Daley. Emanuel later became a senior adviser to Bill Clinton at the White House from 1993 to 1998, serving as Assistant to the President for Political Affairs and then Senior Advisor to the President for Policy and Strategy, and was credited with playing a major role in shifting the Clinton administration's foreign and domestic policy agenda to the right. Emanuel was the single most important official involved in pushing through the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the bill ending Aid for Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), and Clinton's draconian crime bill, among other legislation.

Leaving the administration in 1998, Emanuel worked as an investment banker in Chicago, where he amassed an $18 million fortune in less than three years prior to being elected to Congress.

As head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee since 2004, Emanuel has promoted pro-war and pro-business center-right candidates against anti-war and pro-labor candidates in the primaries, pouring millions of dollars of donations from Democrats across the country into the campaigns of his favored conservative minions to defeat more progressive challengers.

Emanuel was a major supporter of the Iraq War resolution that authorized the invasion of Iraq. Indeed, he was the only one of nine Democratic members of Congress from Illinois who backed granting Bush this unprecedented authority to invade a country on the far side of the world that was no threat to the United States at the time. Even more disturbingly, when asked by Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" whether he would have voted to authorize the invasion "knowing that there are no weapons of mass destruction," Emanuel answered that he indeed would have done so, effectively acknowledging that his support for the war was not about national security, but about oil and empire. Not surprisingly, he has also voted with the Republicans in support of unconditional funding to continue the Iraq War and has consistently opposed efforts by other Democrats to set a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. occupation forces from that country and related Congressional efforts to end the war.

At a time of record budget deficits, Emanuel has been a passionate supporter of increased spending for the Pentagon and has resisted efforts by fellow Democrats to trim excesses in the Bush administration's bloated military budget. For example, he has repeatedly voted against amendments to cut funding for Bush's dangerously destabilizing missile defense and even voted against an amendment to identify unnecessary Pentagon spending by examining the need, relevance and cost of Cold War weapons systems designed to fight the former Soviet Union.

A major hawk regarding Iran, Emanuel has also voted against Democratic efforts to prevent the Bush administration from launching military action against that country and has joined the administration in exaggerated claims about Iran's alleged nuclear threat. He is not opposed to nuclear proliferation if it involves U.S. allies, however. Emanuel has consistently voted against a series of Democratic amendments that would have strengthened safeguards in the Bush administration's nuclear cooperation agreement with India to prevent U.S. assistance from supporting India's nuclear weapons program.

Emanuel is also a prominent hawk regarding Israel, attacking the Bush administration from the right for criticizing Israel's assassination policies and other human rights abuses. He was also a prominent supporter of Israel's 2006 attacks on Lebanon, even challenging the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups that reported Israeli violations of international humanitarian law. Emanuel's father had emigrated from Israel in the 1950s, where he had been a member of the terrorist group Irgun, which had been responsible for a series of terrorist attacks against Palestinian and British civilians in mandatory Palestine during the 1940s. Emanuel himself served in a civilian capacity as a volunteer for the Israeli army in the early 1990s.

It is unclear how serious of a blow Obama's selection of Emanuel is to those who hoped that Obama might actually steer the country in a more progressive direction. It's easy to see it as nothing less than a slap in the face of the progressive anti-war elements of the party to whom Obama owes his election, particularly following his selection of Sen. Joe Biden as vice president. (See my articles "Biden's Foreign Policy 'Experience'" and "Biden, Iraq, and Obama's Betrayal.")

However, this does not necessarily mean that Obama as president will pursue nothing better than a Clintonesque center-right agenda. Someone with Obama's intelligence, knowledge and leadership qualities need not be unduly restricted by the influence of his chief of staff as less able presidents have. At the same time, this shocking appointment of Emanuel is illustrative of the need for the progressive base that brought him to power to not celebrate too long and to refocus our energies into pushing hard to ensure that the change Obama promised is something we really can believe in.

By Stephen Zunes, AlterNet. Posted November 7, 2008.

Do you know now why I said "I don't think so"??

 

[ReBeL]

A great speech by the South African delegate in the UN before afew minutes. No wonder as they exactly know what the apartheid is about.

Thank you, South Africa.

 

[Enron]

Lawrence Davidson wrote this in November 2008:



You can read this too:



Do you know now why I said "I don't think so"??

Thanks for the info. I've read some other similar opinions as well. But I tend to be an optimist.

Who knows what will happen in the new administration? The "experts" can say what they want, but I've found it's a whole lot easier to judge a president once he actually assumes power. I may be wrong.

As for the Emanuel issue. I know he's pro-Israel. But as a Chief of Staff he isn't a bad selection. He's intelligent, fiery, and has knowledge of how an administration should work. If he were Sec. of State or Defense, I could see a bigger call for a red light on the situation.

Unfortunately, the US has a lot more problems to deal with recently than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I don't know how much of a priority it's going to be, though at the moment I would rank it as a top priority, but that's just me.

 

[Il Re]

no he didnt...

he said "where's 'dat 'som bitch Hossein ?""

or "the man tried to kill my father"

 

[tranquill]

Israeli dissident analytic writes that IDF op in Gaza is already stuck, Israelis are bogged down, and basically that's the end of the war: http://samsonblinded.org/news/israeli-attack-on-gaza-loses-momentum-5424

 

[PhRoZeN]

Typing a few paragraph or a whole essay might not be enough for people to understand the tyranny occuring under our very own eyes.. So heres a thousand words demonstrated in a set of cartoons.

 

[PhRoZeN]

more

 

[PhRoZeN]

#3

 

[PhRoZeN]

And Finally.

Id just like to add the importance of image palestine274.gif. This highlights the importance of how many jews be it in israel or abroad feel about the attacks against gaza and in general the occupation. Many Jews are sympathetic and continue to be. This is just to highlight the views that are against the ongoing occupation and massacres are not only expressed from arab or islamic origins.

 

[Ahmed]

thanks for sharing, Phrozen

 

[Bjerknes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities


theres also a book by nicosia thats worth checking will get you more later today

This is also why it is reasonable to question these IDF imbeciles in Jersey who were cheering their heads off while watching the Towers collapse. Why nobody questions it, I don't know, perhaps everything is just a big Zionist Ponzi Scheme.

Yeah, Israel our great "friends", give me a break. All they care about is killing Palestinians and having their own damn land.

All I said was that the shipping of jews was what started all this.

At which point in my post did I mention US policy, Obama, or anything pertaining to what you've just said in my one line post?

As for Obama's appointments, I am perfectly happy with them because they are heads and tails above the current administration.

The guy is pretty much a beast. Perfect guy for the Chief of Staff job. I've heard a lot of good things about him. The only beef people have with him is his Jewish connection. If that's the worst thing about him, I think we'll be ok. In American politics it's difficult not to find someone without some sort of Jewish connection. Hell it's hard to find people in America who don't have some sort of Jewish connection through family.

We all know why Israel launched the offensive.

Two reasons:
1) The cease fire ended on Dec 17 so Israel saw it basically as a window between then and the inauguration to handle their business. Which leads to the second reason 2) Bush is still in office and has been as pro Israel as any President and was in no way going to disagree with blowing up a bunch of brown people because after all that's what he does every morning as he takes his morning coffee. Obama has spoken about using conversation instead of missiles since his days in the Illinois legislature. So it's pretty safe to say that he would definitely not be in favor of the action in Gaza.

Actually, no, the fact his father was a terrorist means that he's a terrorist, so what the US government is doing is employing terrorists, which is pretty much all they ever do. They sponsor and harbor terrorists such as the Emanuel family, and I'm not going to take it anymore. Just because he's Jewish doesn't make his father any less of a terrorist, even though the US government would like us to believe he's a patriot, when in reality we have an IDF terrorist acting as a politician being appointed by the person whom I voted for. Part of the reason why I voted for Obama was because I thought, had a dream so to speak, that this sort of Israel nonsense would take a hike, but then he appoints a guy whose father was an Israeli terrorist.



I mean, what's the point already. It seems like people want the Zionists to control the nation, great job they did already with the banking collapse, so lets make sure everybody hates us even more just to stick it to them one more time before the mortars start flying over here. Lets give a big "fuck you" to all the Palestinian family being bombed with our bombs while we hide behind this faux war on terrorism and appoint terrorists to the government. Thank you very much.

Obama will become the most unpopular President in history after this year unfolds, so he was finished before he even took office. But like everything the Zionist stranglehold over the world will die because that's what they are setting up everything to do.

Perhaps if we're lucky Obama will invade Pakistan just like he said earlier. Politicians and their double talk.

Because if you check some history, you'll find that Rahm Emanuel's father was in the same terrorist group with Tzibi Livni's father. That group made the massacres that led to establish Israel on the land of Palestinians in 1948.

So, he is not another normal Jewish political character, but rather an extremist Zionist activist.

It's really a small world, and it's dirty too, unfortunately.

He's a fucking terrorist, that's what he is. The United States is the leader in the terrorist community.

Cruel reality, but that's the truth. I can't support this sort of stuff, I don't know why Enron has faith in this crap, but it is what it is.