Israeli-Palestinian conflict (65 Viewers)

[IrishZebra]

Yes, that's great. But that still doesn't mean Israel's existence is a human rights violation. All it means is that they have a right of self determination (which I by the way still find a particularly weak invention) and that someone is violating it. You see, the nations could co-exist. Also, it's only a minority, they don't even have to give them an own nation to preserve their right of selfdetermination.

There is no international legal court that is going to say that the mere existence of Israel is a human rights violation and that's because it would be plain wrong to say it is.

Self-Determination although weak is one of the most important human rights and by existing Israel Constitutively and Delcaratively denies this right to the peoples of Palestine. As a legal entitiy it's existence prevents the existence of the defined territory of palestine as a state i.e. a legal entity. It is therefore in violation of International Law.

The same rationale was used for Yugoslavia.

 

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[Turk_Bianconero]

When will that be then? Wait a minute, I thought you wanted to wage war on Israel right now. What's the matter? Need some time? I bet they'll wait for you.

I didn't say it must happen now. And if israel 'overreact' against us there are already enough nuclear in our country to make Ahmedinejad's wish happen. They are USA's but in a war what could prevent us from using them against overreacters?

 

[Enron]

He says the Israelis are not welcome in the US. But of course they are, it's their country.

Depends on who you are. Some people like 'em, some don't. Bar Rafaeli can go wherever she wants, other more notorious Israelis may find certain members of our population not so receptive.

Oh and stop being such a nit picker Andries, we get your point probably years before you made it.

 

[Seven]

Self-Determination although weak is one of the most important human rights and by existing Israel Constitutively and Delcaratively denies this right to the peoples of Palestine. As a legal entitiy it's existence prevents the existence of the defined territory of palestine as a state i.e. a legal entity. It is therefore in violation of International Law.

The same rationale was used for Yugoslavia.

I'm not going to have a legal discussion with someone who doesn't even know there's no such thing as hierarchy when it comes to human rights. I'm sorry, IZ, but you just don't know enough about the issue and to be fair it's only a minor detail anyway. Your point would be just as strong if you said they are guilty of human rights violations because of their actions (which is true obviously).

 

[Bjerknes]

He says the Israelis are not welcome in the US. But of course they are, it's their country.

He prolly wishes they werent, but its quite obvious they are. I mean, just look at who the lead adviser to their President is.

Why do you lot think I'm so vocal about this issue?

The sooner we break relations with Israel, the better.

Of course, we would probably be subject to terrorist bombings by an Irgun sect, but that comes with the terror-tory.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Sent by Mr. 100%Juventus.



What class Israel!

Israelis don't give a shit about the US. We should let them perish.

Okay, that guy is gone.

And he's an idiot because being Jewish is not synonymous with being pro-Israel.

And not all Jews are Israeli!

I didn't say it must happen now. And if israel 'overreact' against us there are already enough nuclear in our country to make Ahmedinejad's wish happen. They are USA's but in a war what could prevent us from using them against overreacters?

You clown, those facilities are run by US soldiers and members of the US military.

You could not use those weapons, and I don't even know if you are correct in saying there are nuclear weapons in your country.

 

[IrishZebra]

I'm not going to have a legal discussion with someone who doesn't even know there's no such thing as hierarchy when it comes to human rights. I'm sorry, IZ, but you just don't know enough about the issue and to be fair it's only a minor detail anyway. Your point would be just as strong if you said they are guilty of human rights violations because of their actions (which is true obviously).

I understand where you're coming from but myself and Casesi would disagree about a little thing called Jus Cogens. By your logic Torture is as serious a crime as gender disparity in pay

This discussion is over.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

It's pretty much obvious. All you have to do is follow the money and see that $6 billion is sent to Israel per year in the form of "aid", which is illegal by international law because Israel has nuclear weapons.

But I am just a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the obvious, others tell me the obvious.

I think that is overlooked because we gave them to them, so they are "our" weapons on Israeli soil.

Why do you lot think I'm so vocal about this issue?

The sooner we break relations with Israel, the better.

Of course, we would probably be subject to terrorist bombings by an Irgun sect, but that comes with the terror-tory.

I agree.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

You clown, those facilities are run by US soldiers and members of the US military.

You could not use those weapons, and I don't even know if you are correct in saying there are nuclear weapons in your country.

There are more than you thought. Those were against USSR. I already said they are USA's but in such a chaos who needs their permission to use those?

I am not saying we shall use them against israel or another but they will prevent us from nuclear winter what Seven hope for.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Okay, they are our weapons, they are not Turkey's, and they are not controlled by Turkey...

So if they are ours and they are controlled by us, what makes you think you could use them?

 

[Roman]

After a long reading here...

IZ,it's okay if your angry,but the situation here(and i live here) is much more complicated than you can ever think of.trust me.
And i'm not saying we're the victims or so,but in many situations that happened we didn't want to just come out and attack.

Calling for Hitller and cursing Israel and jews aren't really smart man...
you need to chill.

Turk,you don't wanna war.you don't.neither do i.i think it's not the way to do things.

Seven,agree with your thoughts here man.great posts.

Oh,as for the ship,just to clarify:

There were other "Aid ships" that came over in the past from other countries.
they never had a problem,to leave the staff at Ashdod port and Israel delivered it to Gazza.
This time,the case was different.
the ships were asked,i repeat again asked,to bring the staff over,at Ashdod and Israel will bring it to Gazza(in case if it's really food and medicine staff),
but the ship ignored and didn't want to stop,neither come to Ashdod!!

what do they have to hide?!if it's only food and medicine.
Btw,the soldiers,when were interviewed,told that "we didn't want to touch them,we wanted to check the ship out,and look that there is nothing wrong and it's really food."
but when they attacked they had to responed.
i don't know if you have seen the video,1 soldier standing alone,doing nothing,6-7 guys come and hit him...btw with knifes also.

Again.we're not victims,but it's not so simple like many think here.
It's not just Israel saw a ship and decided to attack it,i mean wtf,wake up already.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Okay, I'll buy some of that.

But, do you mean "stuff" when you type "staff"? Just to clarify.

 

[Roman]

Okay, I'll buy some of that.

But, do you mean "stuff" when you type "staff"? Just to clarify.

sure.

 

[IrishZebra]

After a long reading here...

IZ,it's okay if your angry,but the situation here(and i live here) is much more complicated than you can ever think of.trust me.
And i'm not saying we're the victims or so,but in many situations that happened we didn't want to just come out and attack.

Calling for Hitller and cursing Israel and jews aren't really smart man...
you need to chill.

I appolgise to you and any other jews that weren't that guy Asshosh or whatever his username is. My comments were in poor taste but I'm not going to recind them.Your country has commited two illegal acts against my country (assaulting our boat(s) in International Waters and counterfeiting passports) and quite frankly that has eroded any sympathy to your cause that I may have had.

I want to be very clear here: I hate Zionists not Jews, I couldn't care less about Jews. I will curse Israel with my last breath as it represents the two things I detest most, Barbaric treatment of human beings and religion in statehood.

Look man I know you live there but it's not super-complicated at the core of the issue. You stole their land under the guise of your God. Correct me if that's wrong.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Turk,you don't wanna war.you don't.neither do i.i think it's not the way to do things.

I have no problem with ordinary Israeli citizen but it's not like i got bored and cheering for a war.

check this. israeli work, and this is happening almost every day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10195996.stm

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Whoa whoa whoa, you don't hate Zionists, you hate Zionists who are for Israel being a state geographically where it is right now.

I'm a Zionist, I'm just for a separate Jewish state in Antarctica where they can fight their true enemy, the Palestinguins.

 

[Seven]

I appolgise to you and any other jews that weren't that guy Asshosh or whatever his username is. My comments were in poor taste but I'm not going to recind them.Your country has commited two illegal acts against my country (assaulting our boat(s) in International Waters and counterfeiting passports) and quite frankly that has eroded any sympathy to your cause that I may have had.

I want to be very clear here: I hate Zionists not Jews, I couldn't care less about Jews. I will curse Israel with my last breath as it represents the two things I detest most, Barbaric treatment of human beings and religion in statehood.

Look man I know you live there but it's not super-complicated at the core of the issue. You stole their land under the guise of your God. Correct me if that's wrong.

That's pretty funny. Some of Israel's biggest enemies share those characteristics.

 

[IrishZebra]

Whoa whoa whoa, you don't hate Zionists, you hate Zionists who are for Israel being a state geographically where it is right now.

I'm a Zionist, I'm just for a separate Jewish state in Antarctica where they can fight their true enemy, the Palestinguins.

Zionism like American Exceptionalism is for Fags.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I have no problem with ordinary Israeli citizen but it's not like i got bored and cheering for a war.

check this. israeli work, and this is happening almost every day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10195996.stm

Those are Kurds, why are you talking about that?

 

[Roman]

I appolgise to you and any other jews that weren't that guy Asshosh or whatever his username is. My comments were in poor taste but I'm not going to recind them.

I want to be very clear here: I hate Zionists not Jews, I couldn't care less about Jews. I will curse Israel with my last breath as it represents the two things I detest most, Barbaric treatment of human beings and religion in statehood.

Look man I know you live there but it's not super-complicated at the core of the issue. You stole their land under the guise of your God. Correct me if that's wrong.

Your not 100% right thats for sure.
i would gladly have a conversation with you some day,really.
just not in mood atm and don't have the time to "dig deeply" on the issue.
beleive me there are many wrong things and decisiones on both sides.