Israeli-Palestinian conflict (41 Viewers)

Is Hamas a Terrorist Organization?

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  • Should there be a Jewish nation SOMEWHERE in the world?

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  • Should Israel be a country located in the region it is right now?

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OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,822
    For Israel, defiance comes at the cost of legitimacy


    The Middle East peace process and its quest for a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict that got under way nearly 20 years ago with the Oslo accords has undergone two fundamental transformations. It is now on the brink of a third.

    The first was the crossing of a threshold by Israel’s settlement project in the West Bank; there is no longer any prospect of its removal by this or any future Israeli government, which was the precise goal of the settlements’ relentless expansion all along. The previous prime minister, Ehud Olmert, who declared that a peace accord requires Israel to withdraw “from most, if not all” of the occupied territories, “including East Jerusalem,” was unable even to remove any of the 20 hilltop outposts Israel had solemnly promised to dismantle.

    A two-state solution could therefore come about only if Israel were compelled to withdraw to the pre-1967 border by an outside power whose wishes an Israeli government could not defy – the US. The assumption has always been that at the point where Israel’s colonial ambitions collide with critical US national interests, an American president would draw on the massive credit the US has accumulated with Israel to insist it dismantle its illegal settlements, which successive US administrations held to be the main obstacle to a peace accord.

    The second transformation resulted from the shattering of that assumption when President Barack Obama – who took a more forceful stand against Israel’s settlements than any of his predecessors, and did so at a time when the damage this unending conflict was causing American interests could not have been more obvious – backed off ignominiously in the face of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s rejection of his demand. This left prospects for a two-state accord dead in the water.

    The disappearance of the two-state solution is triggering a third transformation, which is turning Israel from a democracy into an apartheid state. The democracy Israel provides for its (mostly) Jewish citizens cannot hide its changed character. A democracy reserved for privileged citizens while all others are denied individual and national rights and kept behind checkpoints, barbed wire fences and separation walls manned by Israel’s military, is not democracy.

    At first, the collapse of the assumptions on which hopes for a fair and just resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict rested triggered much despair. But that despair has begun to turn to anger, and options for resolving the conflict, previously dismissed by the international community as unrealistic, are being looked at anew. That anger is also spawning a new global challenge to Israel’s legitimacy.

    Anti-Semitic opponents of Israel will undoubtedly celebrate this emerging challenge to Israel’s incipient apartheid regime. But Israel will have only its own misguided policies to blame for its empowerment of this racist fringe. Such participation will no more detract from the inherent legitimacy of that challenge than Israel’s collaboration (on the development of atomic nuclear weapons) with a racist South African regime in the 1970s and 1980s provided democratic sanction for South Africa’s apartheid.

    Mr Netanyahu’s government has hardly been indifferent to the seriousness of this challenge. A study by one of Israel’s leading policy institutes warning of this looming global threat to the country’s legitimacy was taken up by Israel’s cabinet, and described by its members as constituting as grave a danger to the country’s existence as the nuclear threat from Iran. Unfortunately – if predictably – the government’s response has been to mount a campaign to discredit critics as anti-Semitic enemies of Israel, rather than abandoning the policies that are transforming it into an apartheid state.

    No country is as obsessed with the issue of its own legitimacy as Israel; ironically, that obsession may yet be its salvation. An international community angered and frustrated by Israel’s disenfranchisement of the Palestinian people, and determined to prevent their relegation to an apartheid existence, may well decide to have the United Nations General Assembly accept a Palestinian declaration of statehood within the pre-1967 borders, without the mutually agreed border changes that a peace accord might have produced. Nothing would challenge Israel’s legitimacy more than its defiance of such an international decision.

    Prospects for such international action may serve as the only remaining inducement for Israel to accept a two-state solution. Not only its legitimacy but its survival as a Jewish and democratic state depends on it.

    By Henry Siegman

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/48a4a5e6-20b2-11df-9775-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,823
    Israeli assassinations: passports to kill


    British passports are the property of the British government. When that government says and does nothing for six days after it was given evidence that Mossad agents stole the identity of six British citizens to assassinate a Hamas commander in Dubai, it starts to seem as if Israel was right to think it could get away with it. The Israeli foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, yesterday predicted the incident would have no effect on British relations.

    The decision last night to call in the Israeli ambassador to "share information" does not change this basic position. If Britain were less supine in its dealings, it would realise it is not in its interests to let Israel wage its war with Hamas under a British flag. What happened was a breach of trust between two nations who are ostensibly allies. The identity theft endangers not just the lives of six passport holders and their families, but potentially anyone carrying a British passport in the Arab world. Faced by a growing political clamour, Gordon Brown was forced to call for a full investigation into how fraudulent British passports were used. We all, alas, know the prime minister's predilection for investigations that fizzle out. The Serious Organised Crime Agency (Soca), led by Sir Ian Andrews, formerly at the Ministry of Defence, will work with the Dubai authorities.

    Dubai has already issued its own arrest warrants, but at the very least, the evidence that Soca gathers should be presented to Israel with a demand for an explanation. Britain is not the only country involved in this affair. Dubai believed that 11 agents with European passports were involved in the murder. If Israel disregards Soca, matters should be taken up at EU level. Mossad agents routinely use false identities and forged western passports, and each time they are caught doing it Israel gives assurances they will not do it again. It did so to Britain when the issue came up in 1987. Ten years later it gave the same assurances to Canada, after Mossad agents entered Jordan on doctored Canadian passports and bungled an attempt to kill the Hamas leader Khaled Meshal with poison. Two suspected Israeli agents were jailed in New Zealand for obtaining the country's passports illegally. These diplomatic assurances are evidently worthless.

    The only thing that will give Mossad pause for thought the next time it eyes a target for assassination is if its political masters are made to feel the consequences of its actions. There are at any given moment a plethora of tools at the disposal of Britain and the EU, from bilateral diplomatic contacts and military contacts to arms and trade agreements. London is a key diplomatic listening post for the Middle East, and Britain is a vital interlocutor with the Palestinians. There are any number of ways of getting the message across, not least the question of whether to change the law to make it harder for British courts to issue arrest warrants, under the principle of universal jurisdiction, for former Israeli ministers accused of war crimes. The enduring mystery is why Britain has been so reluctant to pull the levers at its disposal.

    The Mossad operation was described in Israel yesterday as a tactical operational success. There was relief that the right target was killed, and all Israel's operatives got out safely. Israel is not the only country to carry out targeted assassinations. The US pursue the same policy with drones against the Taliban and al-Qaida in North Waziristan. The charge of hypocrisy is swiftly levelled at those who condemn Israel's strikes while carrying on the same policy in other theatres of war. But assassinations rarely achieve their advertised effect. If the purpose here was to stop Hamas acquiring arms from Iran in Dubai, it will not prevent Tehran from providing weapons through another channel, and the Hamas commander will be quickly replaced. Assassinations such as these might, however, give Arab states even less reason than they already have to normalise relations with Israel. Is that a tactical success or a strategic failure?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,825
    Before 4 days, Israel added the Ibraheemi Mosque in Hebron and a mosque in Bethlehem to the holy places for Jews in Israel. That means these holy places were converted from Islamic to Jewish places suddenly.

    Since then, everyday clashes are resumed every morning between Palestinian armless people and the Israeli army around the Ibraheemi Mosque in Hebron.

    Some political analysts say that this may flame a third intefada in the West Bank.

    For those who don't know, the second Intefada in 2000 was flamed by the visit of Sharon, Israeli prime minister at that time, to Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.

    P.S. In 25/2/1994 before 16 years exactly, one Israeli extremist opened fire on Palestinian prayers while kneeling in this mosque and killed more than 20 of them. This operation was the spark that made Palestinians think of a way for revenge, and consequently, martyr bombings started since then.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,827
    According to a Kuwaiti newspaper, resistance movements like Hamas and Hezbollah are waiting to see what the European countries and Australia will do against Israel because of using their passports in the assassinations. The newspaper revealed that the assassination of Emad Meghenieh in Damascus was implemented by Mossad with passports from Belgium, Holland and Denmark.

    If the European countries will remain silent and will not do anything against Israel, these countries will be looked at as countries that supported and contributed in the assassinations. Anybody from these countries will be a target in the Middle East because he will be looked at as a probable Mossad agent.

    Moreover, the resistance movements may react on these assassinations in these European countries because such countries that do not respect the lives of other people do not deserve to have their citizens respected.

    Here is the article from the Kuwaiti newspaper in Arabic:
    http://www.alraimedia.com/Alrai/Article.aspx?id=187768
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    117,020
    Ow, how pleasant. Yes lets count everyone as a Mossad agent even though they most likely disagree with Israeli tactics if they are in the Middle East in the first place.

    Mossad is an international terrorist group and the United States should pull its troops out of Iraq and send them to Israel.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,112
    Indeed it doesn't make sense.

    But i don't think Hamas really mean that, i guess they're just trying to influence said nations to take some form of action against Israel.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,831
    Israelis rush to join Mossad after Mahmoud al-Mabhouh killing


    Would you be prepared to cross-dress? And kill a guest in an adjacent hotel room? If the answer to these questions is a resounding “yes”, and you can also act, enjoy luxury international travel with a twist and can carry off a convincing Irish or Australian accent, then the job could be yours.

    The Israeli spy agency Mossad may be the target of international reproach since it allegedly killed the Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel this month, but at home emerging details of the operation have generated Mossad mania.

    It has never been more popular in Israel, with stores selling out of Mossad memorabilia and its official website reporting a soaring number of visitors interested in applying to become agents. “Mossad has been restored to its glory days,” said Ilan Mizrahi, a former deputy director of the agency, which is located in the affluent beach town of Herzliya, north of Tel Aviv.

    Israel has neither confirmed nor denied its involvement in Mr al-Mabhouh’s death — despite increasingly confident announcements by Dubai police that they have linked Mossad to the killing. Of the 28 suspects named, 11 share identities with Israelis who hold dual citizenship.

    Governments across the world are lambasting Israel for what it considers a sloppy job done by agents who were caught on CCTV and may have left behind DNA. In Israel, the operation is being touted as a job well done. Israelis are discussing the killing with a wink, a nod, and pride in the agency, offically known as the Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations.

    Opticians have reported a rise in sales of the horn-rimmed glasses in the style worn by 14 of the 26 suspects, T-shirts with Mossad logos are selling out at stores and the agency has experienced a flood of applicants.

    Although no new jobs have been posted for half a year, a new statement on the Mossad website reads: “You have an opportunity to create a new reality where you can play the leading role. If you possess intelligence and sophistication, you can make a difference and fulfil a national mission. If you can engage, charm and influence people — you may have the qualities we are looking for.”

    Elad, 21, had been dreaming of joining Mossad for years, but filed an application this week, the news site Ynet reported. “I ran to a computer and applied for a job,” Elad told Ynet. “I’ve always had a dream to work for the Mossad. It’s obvious why – it’s exciting, dangerous and special. Nobody really knows what people do there, and now I suddenly understand how it works. It’s cool. I hope they accept me. I think I have all the required skills.”

    The Mossad website says that candidates must hold an academic degree and good command of at least two languages. Preference is given to people with experience abroad and an ability to begin work immediately.

    If the reports by Dubai police are correct, the assassination and surveillance team of nearly 30 agents so far exposed would represent a sizeable number of Mossad agents who would no longer be able to engage in covert espionage.

    Photographs of the alleged assassins have been published across the world and studied by a number of governments.

    An inquiry by Haaretz newspaper announced this week that the photographs were doctored so that the agents could not be identified. Details such as eye colour or contours of the nose and lips were altered slightly to make it difficult for facial recognition software to identify the individuals, Haaretz said.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7043239.ece
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,870
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #5,833
    Spanish children urge Israeli envoy to 'stop murdering Palestinians'


    Israeli Embassy in Madrid receives hundreds of letters of protest from local pupils. 'Why does Israel murder Palestinians?' one letter notes. Foreign Ministry protests phenomenon

    The Foreign Ministry's Deputy Director of European Affairs Naor Gilon protested via telephone to Spanish Ambassador to Israel Alvaro Iranzo the delivery of letters written by Spanish school children to Israel's Ambassador in Madrid, Rafael Shotz.

    Israel's Embassy in Madrid has recently been receiving children's letters expressing protest of Israel's conduct towards the Palestinians. The Foreign Ministry is concerned that the students who wrote the letters were being instigated by their teachers. One letter directed at the ambassador noted, "How many Palestinians have you murdered today?"

    Another read, "Mr. Ambassador you should think about not killing the Palestinian children and elderly. I don't know if it doesn't bother you, having to murder people. You should leave Palestine."

    During Gilon's conversation with the Spanish envoy the latter stressed that the Spanish education system was not responsible for the phenomenon and that no instruction to write such letters had been issued. Gilon, nevertheless, expressed Israel's wish that the practice be halted immediately.

    Since Operation Cast Lead, Europe has seen a growing number of attacks on Israel, its officials and institutions. This also includes what is referred to locally as "the new anti-Semitism," which in essence culminates in anti-Zionist and anti-Israel attitudes.

    European Jews have also faced an increasing number of attacks. Israel's PR outlay is trying to fight the phenomenon, but with little success.

    The embassy in Madrid also received letters from human rights organization Amnesty International urging Israel to lift the Gaza blockade and address such issues as the water shortage suffered by Gazans.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3855879,00.html
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    117,020
    "Spanish children are anti-semites and their deaths are a tragedy but they used themselves as human shields. They are responsible for their own deaths, we, Israel, are not. Yes, even if we killed them."

    - IDF Spokeswoman
     

    The Curr

    Senior Member
    Feb 3, 2007
    33,703
    Israel abort raid after details go on Facebook


    An Israeli gunner has posted details of an impending West Bank raid on his Facebook page, leading to the mission being aborted, the army and media reports said on Wednesday.

    The soldier from an artillery unit updated his page on the social networking site, saying 'on Wednesday we are cleaning Qatanna, and on Thursday, God willing, going home,' army radio reported.

    Other soldiers in the unit, who saw the posting, alerted their officers and the planned raid on Qatanna, a village near the Palestinian city of Ramallah, was called off, the army said in a statement.


    'The division commander decided to cancel the operation out of concern that the information had reached hostile groups and would harm IDF (Israeli military) forces,' the statement said.

    The soldier's page contained details of his unit and the exact time and location of the planned sweep. The army said soldiers are barred from posting any sensitive information on the Internet.

    The Israeli army frequently carries out raids in the occupied West Bank, detaining suspected Palestinian militants.

    The army apparently did not 'like' the post.
    The soldier was 'sentenced to 10 days' imprisonment, his combat certificate revoked, and he was removed from his battalion and from all combat postings,' the statement said.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0303/israel.html
     

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