Is this team stronger than last year (1 Viewer)

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#61
[
QUOTE]++ [ originally posted by Rickenbacker2 ] ++


You're wrong. Bergkamp has had a lot of minor injuries, but who are you to claim that they aren't real?
Every professional player plays with minor injuries, ask the likes of Raul, Henry and Hasselbaink played in the fa cup final without being fit, Raul plays all the time for Real Madrid whetehr full fit or not. Maradona played throut the 90 wc finals while not fit at all, but Bergkamp has missed so many matches with one flimsy excuse after another

Maybe he doesn't take penalties for Arsenal any more because Henry is their established goal scorer, and he gets the preference because of that.
Henry just joined Arsenal 2 seasons ago and Bergkamp stopped playing penalties because he missed against Man united.
And Bergkamp doesn't take free kicks for Holland because he doesn't play for the national team any more. When he did, he often did not take them because he is a lethal finisher, and the Dutch do not usually take shots directly from free kicks, so they need good finishers to be on the end of them.
The dutch do take direct free kicks and the likes of DeBoer, Seedorf always line up to take em, by the way against Italy, Holland had 2 penalties, why didnt he volunteer to take one of them especially when De Boer had missed and he is meant to be the iceman
I am an Arsenal fan, and I will tell you that the "Ice Man" is
someone I would trust to peform under pressure no matter what.
Excuse me if you do follow Arsenal religiously, you will know that when the pressure gets tough Bergkamp gets an injury, ask yourself hom many goals he has scored against Man united or Liverpool


Your example about the world cup is flawed. He didn't have good match because the team was stuctured throughout the tournament so that they relied upon him to both create and score goals. This wore him out and he had very little left
. What a load of crock i am sorry to say, didnt Argentina rely far more on Maradona, and the dutch have far more better players and one of the most creative teams in the world cup or didn't Kluivert score goals or Overmars, Ronnie Deboer and the rest of them create as well. Btw how many goals did he create and score and were Belgium, South Korea, Mexico so tough that they took so much out of him

Bergkamp is tough in a lot of ways, and furhtermore, he is one of the most skilled players of all time.
I thought we were talking about grit not skill, no doubt about his skill, its his grit we are talking about. Besides this is the double standard arguments that frustrate me, when it suits you , you mention skill which i have been talking about all along .

But because Bergkamp is a fave of yours, you are willing to overlook the fact that he is not the grittiest player and calling him an ice-man is about his finishing prowess not that pressure does not get to him because it does. I have not even mentioned his fear of flying which has caused Arsenal dear in Europe as he does not play in away matches
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#62
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I thought we were talking about grit not skill, no doubt about his skill, its his grit we are talking about. Besides this is the double standard arguments that frustrate me, when it suits you , you mention skill which i have been talking about all along .
Weren't you the one who connected skill and grit in another thread?

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
But because Bergkamp is a fave of yours, you are willing to overlook the fact that he is not the grittiest player and calling him an ice-man is about his finishing prowess not that pressure does not get to him because it does. I have not even mentioned his fear of flying which has caused Arsenal dear in Europe as he does not play in away matches

I don't consider Bergkamp to be a great player and to have skill and grit because he is a fave of mine. He is one of my favourite players because he is great, and he does have skill and grit, but above that he has class. Don't slander him.

As for you preying on his fear of flying, that is just wrong. Everyone is afraid of something. His fear is one that is unfortunately and unavoidably public. that doesn't mean that he isn't a gritty footballer.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#63
Well whatever, Bergkamp is a great player, one of my faves but he is a bit precious and everyone who follows football and knows the guy will tell you the same. I said i will take a talented player over a gritty one, you said the opposite. I did not prey on his fear of flying but whether rightly or wrongly, Bergkamp is being paid to play and i for one find the fact that he cannot travel to away matches unacceptable, if he was playing for Juventus, how long do you think they will be able to tolerate it.

If I am not mistaken a few years ago, Holland went to Belarus to play a wc qualifier, Bergkamp did not go, Holland had a penalty, seedorf missed it as Bergkamp would have taken it if he was playing, Holland lost 1-0 and that game ultimately condemned Holland to play off with Ireland republic.
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#64
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Well whatever, Bergkamp is a great player, one of my faves but he is a bit precious and everyone who follows football and knows the guy will tell you the same. I said i will take a talented player over a gritty one, you said the opposite. I did not prey on his fear of flying but whether rightly or wrongly, Bergkamp is being paid to play and i for one find the fact that he cannot travel to away matches unacceptable, if he was playing for Juventus, how long do you think they will be able to tolerate it.
However you like to see it is your problem, but my opinion of Bergkamp is forged from a long following of him. And Arsenal signed Bergkamp with the understanding that he would not beflying anywhere with the team. I don't think that this hurts him or the team that much,

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
If I am not mistaken a few years ago, Holland went to Belarus to play a wc qualifier, Bergkamp did not go, Holland had a penalty, seedorf missed it as Bergkamp would have taken it if he was playing, Holland lost 1-0 and that game ultimately condemned Holland to play off with Ireland republic.
Come on man! Your trying to tell me that Holland lost to Belarus just because Bergkamp wasn't there? That is ridiculous, Holland should beat Belarus no matter what, just because Bergkamp didn't go means nothing.
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#66
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
my my arent we being a bit tetchy, never mind, your view is yours and mine is mine
Not at all mate, I'm trying my best to be good spirited, but you are attacking a man for his fear of flying, and calling him spineless, it agrivates me.
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#67
I didnt want to attack him for his fears but i do think that some of Bergkamps missing of game due to injury are a bit much, btw try speaking to core Arsenal fans the ones that go to highbury and see if they will tell you different
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#68
whatever the case,bergkamp's a gem to have in any squad,i haven't seen that kind of dutch wizardry in any other player playing at present.nothing quite like it,really.besides,arsenal have a wealth of attacking options,eg.wiltord, ljungberg,henry, jeffers,kanu etc. so i don't see why they can't put up with that.another thing to keep in mind is that any club which buys him will have known about the flying thingy,so there's no question about how they should treat him regarding that aspect.
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#69
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++If I am not mistaken a few years ago, Holland went to Belarus to play a wc qualifier, Bergkamp did not go, Holland had a penalty, seedorf missed it as Bergkamp would have taken it if he was playing, Holland lost 1-0 and that game ultimately condemned Holland to play off with Ireland republic.
What are you on about? We have never (repeat: never) played Belarus in the history of football! The first match Holland-Belarus ever is coming up in two weeks for EURO2004 qualification!!
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#70
I cannot believe you said that, Holland played Belarus in qualification for Euro96 and they lost in Belarus and i am pretty sure that Seedorf missed a penalty in that game

Sorry to have to remind you of this:frown:
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#71
You're right! I just found proof! That's weird 'cause the Dutch FA's website stated that we had never played Belarus before...what a mixup!

Here's the schedule for Holland's EURO96 qualification.

Thuis
06-09-1994 Nederland - Belarus 1-0
29-03-1994 Nederland - Malta 4-0
15-11-1994 Nederland - Noorwegen 3-0
16-11-1994 Nederland - Republiek Tsjechië 0-0
14-12-1994 Nederland - Luxemburg 5-0

Uit
07-06-1994 Belarus - Nederland 1-0
07-09-1994 Luxemburg - Nederland 0-4
26-04-1994 Republiek Tsjechië - Nederland 3-1
11-10-1994 Malta - Nederland 0-4
12-10-1994 Noorwegen - Nederland 1-1
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#72
++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++Sorry to have to remind you of this:frown:
No sweat - we miss penalties all the time...can you believe that the Dutch NT has never won a single match through a penalty shoot-out? .....no hope anymore... :sigh: :D
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#73
++ [ originally posted by Paranoia ] ++
whatever the case,bergkamp's a gem to have in any squad,i haven't seen that kind of dutch wizardry in any other player playing at present.nothing quite like it,really.besides,arsenal have a wealth of attacking options,eg.wiltord, ljungberg,henry, jeffers,kanu etc. so i don't see why they can't put up with that.another thing to keep in mind is that any club which buys him will have known about the flying thingy,so there's no question about how they should treat him regarding that aspect.
Exaclty.
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#74
but it's belarus we're talking about,holland should win with penalty or not.


btw i'm beginning to think holland resembles chelsea,so inconsistent,losing to mediocre teams and promising so much but delivering little.
 
Jul 12, 2002
5,666
#75
++ [ originally posted by Paranoia ] ++
btw i'm beginning to think holland resembles chelsea,so inconsistent,losing to mediocre teams and promising so much but delivering little.
Don't be insulting.
 

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