My mum was a champion in making me feel guilty. Really, pure mind games. Works the best imo.
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++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
It doesnt work on everyone tho
It doesnt work on everyone tho
well fred it boils down to childrearing. what is the purpose of adults taking care of a child? what role does discipline play in their lives? what is its purpose? is human parenting the same as for animals?
this is my theory:
the main purpose of parenting is to prepare/train a child for independence. the secondary is to take care of the child as it cannot take care of itself.
one of the ways in which children cant take care of themselves is that they cannot make right decisions, or their instincts and impulses are not controlled properly. this is due to their limited thinking- pre-teenagers cannot think abstract thoughts- their logic and philosophical mental processes are handicapped. so the parents need to make certain decisions for them, and the parents need to help them as their mental ability matures as they grow older.
when a child does not go according to what decision the parent makes/allows, they can be ****ed. to prevent that from happening there must be a way to coerce the child to ignore his own will and do what is expected by the parent. of course this will slowly decrease as the child grows toward adulthood and he does his own thing.
the role of discipline is to make the child do what his parents say and not what he says.
now if you compare this to the law in most countries, they dont just spank you for everything. they put you in jail, or they fine you, or they suspend some of your priveleges, etc.
in the same way, you can make a child do what his parent says by reward-punishment schemes.
spanking works in the same way. in psychology its called reinforcement and punishment.
there are 4 categories-
negative reinforcement: negative means to take away something bad from them to reward them for what they do.
positive reinforcement: give them something good to reward them for what they do.
negative punishment: take something good away from them to punish them for something bad they do
positive punishment: give them something bad to punish them for what they do.
now spanking is positive punishment. starving them is negative punishment. if you get a fine from the police its negative punishment.
all these 4 examples are used to "force" someone to do something. like if you give a child some candy for being nice thats positive reinforcement.
so basically spanking is one of the ways but it is not the only way. sometimes, however spanking is the most effective way- and i think thats what your trying to say.
---------------------------
lol thats all i remember from last years intro to psychology
this is my theory:
the main purpose of parenting is to prepare/train a child for independence. the secondary is to take care of the child as it cannot take care of itself.
one of the ways in which children cant take care of themselves is that they cannot make right decisions, or their instincts and impulses are not controlled properly. this is due to their limited thinking- pre-teenagers cannot think abstract thoughts- their logic and philosophical mental processes are handicapped. so the parents need to make certain decisions for them, and the parents need to help them as their mental ability matures as they grow older.
when a child does not go according to what decision the parent makes/allows, they can be ****ed. to prevent that from happening there must be a way to coerce the child to ignore his own will and do what is expected by the parent. of course this will slowly decrease as the child grows toward adulthood and he does his own thing.
the role of discipline is to make the child do what his parents say and not what he says.
now if you compare this to the law in most countries, they dont just spank you for everything. they put you in jail, or they fine you, or they suspend some of your priveleges, etc.
in the same way, you can make a child do what his parent says by reward-punishment schemes.
spanking works in the same way. in psychology its called reinforcement and punishment.
there are 4 categories-
negative reinforcement: negative means to take away something bad from them to reward them for what they do.
positive reinforcement: give them something good to reward them for what they do.
negative punishment: take something good away from them to punish them for something bad they do
positive punishment: give them something bad to punish them for what they do.
now spanking is positive punishment. starving them is negative punishment. if you get a fine from the police its negative punishment.
all these 4 examples are used to "force" someone to do something. like if you give a child some candy for being nice thats positive reinforcement.
so basically spanking is one of the ways but it is not the only way. sometimes, however spanking is the most effective way- and i think thats what your trying to say.
---------------------------
lol thats all i remember from last years intro to psychology
++ [ originally posted by Josh ] ++
well fred it boils down to childrearing. what is the purpose of adults taking care of a child? what role does discipline play in their lives? what is its purpose? is human parenting the same as for animals?
this is my theory:
the main purpose of parenting is to prepare/train a child for independence. the secondary is to take care of the child as it cannot take care of itself.
one of the ways in which children cant take care of themselves is that they cannot make right decisions, or their instincts and impulses are not controlled properly. this is due to their limited thinking- pre-teenagers cannot think abstract thoughts- their logic and philosophical mental processes are handicapped. so the parents need to make certain decisions for them, and the parents need to help them as their mental ability matures as they grow older.
when a child does not go according to what decision the parent makes/allows, they can be ****ed. to prevent that from happening there must be a way to coerce the child to ignore his own will and do what is expected by the parent. of course this will slowly decrease as the child grows toward adulthood and he does his own thing.
the role of discipline is to make the child do what his parents say and not what he says.
now if you compare this to the law in most countries, they dont just spank you for everything. they put you in jail, or they fine you, or they suspend some of your priveleges, etc.
in the same way, you can make a child do what his parent says by reward-punishment schemes.
spanking works in the same way. in psychology its called reinforcement and punishment.
there are 4 categories-
negative reinforcement: negative means to take away something bad from them to reward them for what they do.
positive reinforcement: give them something good to reward them for what they do.
negative punishment: take something good away from them to punish them for something bad they do
positive punishment: give them something bad to punish them for what they do.
now spanking is positive punishment. starving them is negative punishment. if you get a fine from the police its negative punishment.
all these 4 examples are used to "force" someone to do something. like if you give a child some candy for being nice thats positive reinforcement.
so basically spanking is one of the ways but it is not the only way. sometimes, however spanking is the most effective way- and i think thats what your trying to say.
---------------------------
lol thats all i remember from last years intro to psychology
well fred it boils down to childrearing. what is the purpose of adults taking care of a child? what role does discipline play in their lives? what is its purpose? is human parenting the same as for animals?
this is my theory:
the main purpose of parenting is to prepare/train a child for independence. the secondary is to take care of the child as it cannot take care of itself.
one of the ways in which children cant take care of themselves is that they cannot make right decisions, or their instincts and impulses are not controlled properly. this is due to their limited thinking- pre-teenagers cannot think abstract thoughts- their logic and philosophical mental processes are handicapped. so the parents need to make certain decisions for them, and the parents need to help them as their mental ability matures as they grow older.
when a child does not go according to what decision the parent makes/allows, they can be ****ed. to prevent that from happening there must be a way to coerce the child to ignore his own will and do what is expected by the parent. of course this will slowly decrease as the child grows toward adulthood and he does his own thing.
the role of discipline is to make the child do what his parents say and not what he says.
now if you compare this to the law in most countries, they dont just spank you for everything. they put you in jail, or they fine you, or they suspend some of your priveleges, etc.
in the same way, you can make a child do what his parent says by reward-punishment schemes.
spanking works in the same way. in psychology its called reinforcement and punishment.
there are 4 categories-
negative reinforcement: negative means to take away something bad from them to reward them for what they do.
positive reinforcement: give them something good to reward them for what they do.
negative punishment: take something good away from them to punish them for something bad they do
positive punishment: give them something bad to punish them for what they do.
now spanking is positive punishment. starving them is negative punishment. if you get a fine from the police its negative punishment.
all these 4 examples are used to "force" someone to do something. like if you give a child some candy for being nice thats positive reinforcement.
so basically spanking is one of the ways but it is not the only way. sometimes, however spanking is the most effective way- and i think thats what your trying to say.
---------------------------
lol thats all i remember from last years intro to psychology
I think positive punishment is good only for extreme nessisary cases. Like spanking a kid who disobays and climbs the fence to a swimming pool when he can't swim.
Also, i think this is mostly effective and only should be used for children younger than 13.
I'd also like to add the positive punishment is useless at a later age if the child has been spoiled or left alone when younger.
There is one important thing, that parents often forget, that must be stressed when using positive punishment: AS YOUNG AS THE CHILD MAY BE, THE PARENT MUST EXPLAIN TO THE CHILD WHY HE'S BEING SPANKED (what he did wrong, and why it's wrong).
IMO, positive reinforcement should be the most method used. (check "Seeing dog" example from the text for the reason
...eh Josh )Also, I think the best way to raise a kid so that he/she would be dicaplined is to imbed in him care for himself and make him want to be good instead of raising him to fear your punishment. Otherwise the kid grow up to be the "failure avoiding" type instead of the "success seeking" type.
just my 2 cents...
awesome
very nicely put, both of you
IMO positive reinforcement and penalty (that's what i think it's called, taking away something good) should be the harmless way of raising childern b/c abuse leaves a scar.
example: me and my friend were in the car, he was driving and busting my balls so i couldn't really kick him or anything, and i kinda slaped him in the back of his head (not hard at all and as a joke of course). he got HEATED. b/c his dad used to always do it when he did something wrong as a kid or to put him down (probably both) and i guess it reminds him of that/makes him feel like i'm putting him down.
and something like that makes you hate your parents when you grow up
very nicely put, both of you
IMO positive reinforcement and penalty (that's what i think it's called, taking away something good) should be the harmless way of raising childern b/c abuse leaves a scar.
example: me and my friend were in the car, he was driving and busting my balls so i couldn't really kick him or anything, and i kinda slaped him in the back of his head (not hard at all and as a joke of course). he got HEATED. b/c his dad used to always do it when he did something wrong as a kid or to put him down (probably both) and i guess it reminds him of that/makes him feel like i'm putting him down.
and something like that makes you hate your parents when you grow up
I think it's kind of sad that you've already made a conscious decision to definitely hit your children if they do something wrong.
My parents hardly ever hit me, and AFAIK I'm not a corrupted child because of it. Instead, they rewarded me for good things and took away good things when i misbehaved. I learned all my times tables by 1st grade because my parents bought me a pack of Batman cards every time i learned a set. This isn't spoiling, because it teaches a child that they have to earn good things. When I didn't do my homework or did something else bad, they'd take away my $5 pocket money. It worked pretty well AFAIC
My parents hardly ever hit me, and AFAIK I'm not a corrupted child because of it. Instead, they rewarded me for good things and took away good things when i misbehaved. I learned all my times tables by 1st grade because my parents bought me a pack of Batman cards every time i learned a set. This isn't spoiling, because it teaches a child that they have to earn good things. When I didn't do my homework or did something else bad, they'd take away my $5 pocket money. It worked pretty well AFAIC
