Gym and fitness (32 Viewers)

[Pegi]

That 70% training pretty much applies for anything in a long run. If you're doing power training, it's around 70-80% of RM you're using but never really doing going for the failure, unless you're peaking. Then if you're doing basic hypetrofy training for a muscle, it's around 60-85% of your RM but you can do the complete sets. If you were training for marathon, you really can't train by doing full marathon's once every other day, because you have limited recovering capacity and that's the single most important thing when it comes to training and that really determines the way and how often you should train.

 

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[pavluska]

that’s pretty much how I train. I only max like once every couple of months. Lift everyday to 70%, I rotate and switch exercises pretty frequently. Should be said I lift to supplement my running.

It does make sense mathematically... assuming last reps at 70% = last reps at 100%.



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That 70% training pretty much applies for anything in a long run. If you're doing power training, it's around 70-80% of RM you're using but never really doing going for the failure, unless you're peaking. Then if you're doing basic hypetrofy training for a muscle, it's around 60-85% of your RM but you can do the complete sets. If you were training for marathon, you really can't train by doing full marathon's once every other day, because you have limited recovering capacity and that's the single most important thing when it comes to training and that really determines the way and how often you should train.

What's RM?

 

[JuveJay]

Rep max.

 

[Pegi]

That 70% training is fine, but if you're a starting weighlifter or having any intentions to go on gym, i wouldn't exactly stop the set at 7 if you could do 10. You can easily leave 1 rep hanging there, but 1 wouldn't leave 3. Those starting strength programs are just fine for any newcomers, just because adding weight is probably the best way to get the beginner gains. When your body starts to slowly refuse getting stronger with those basic straight sets of 8-12 reps, then it's time add the volume, add the frequency and make different programs in order to keep improving, to give new stimulus for your muscles because adding more weight doesn't work anymore. It could be that your first 2 years are all about eating properly and then adding more weight weekly, should never go ahead and copy some pro bodybuilder program with 25 sets for back, 25 sets for arms etc and start from that, because you can easily get gains by doing less. Those pro programs are for those guys who have trained multiple years, even +10 and their strenght levels are already there, their recovery capacity is higher and they don't really get anything from straight sets anymore etc. You could have a guy who has never been at gym + never really been involved on any physical activity and he goes there first time, he can do 10 squats with his bodyweight and he will definitely get enough stimulus for his muscles to realize that something's wrong, we need to adapt and they're doing it by growing. Other scenario is that you copied that program from the internet, went ahead and did all those sets, reps etc and you still got that stimulus, but it doesn't make them grow any faster so it's all waste to do more, even less would have been enough.

Another thing is that central nervous system which is something that doesn't get sore, but there's a limit for it as well. Any badly slept night, any lifting, over training, working, stress or any activity in general affects on it. Basically there's a Sympathetic nervous system(SNS) which is like a fight/flight mode and then the opposite for that is parasymphatic nervous system(PNS) which is like a complete opposite to that, like a rest n digest and the more you're in that SNS mode aka the fight/flight mode, the higher is the risk of going beyond of what you're capable of. So for example you're father of 3 and you're doing physical work and doing night shifts while lacking sleep but you would still like to hit the gym for 5x a week and do heavy lifting even it's just 70%, there's higher risk to have somekind of side effects after a while. So it doesn't exactly work like by doing "just" 70% everytime or in a long run, you need to take the whole package into the consideration and still, the recovery is the key and you only can do so much.

 

[Post Ironic]

CNS adaptation happens, it’s just slow. But if you are willing to take the years required to adapt, and the growing pains along the way, you can definitely train the CNS to handle far more workload.

Much easier of course if you have the schedule and support elements available to elite athletes, but it’s possible for most with time and dedication.

Also, you can definitely work into the 85-95% 1RM range, especially if training in the power sports and the Olympic lifts. Heavy singles, doubles, and triples are absolutely essential for training these in a way that maximizes strength and power gains.

 

[Pegi]

CNS adaptation happens, it’s just slow. But if you are willing to take the years required to adapt, and the growing pains along the way, you can definitely train the CNS to handle far more workload.

Much easier of course if you have the schedule and support elements available to elite athletes, but it’s possible for most with time and dedication.

Also, you can definitely work into the 85-95% 1RM range, especially if training in the power sports and the Olympic lifts. Heavy singles, doubles, and triples are absolutely essential for training these in a way that maximizes strength and power gains.

Of course it does but in same note, if you have higher maximium recovery value and you're way stronger compared to beginner, it also puts your body in a whole different situation as far it comes to workloads, weights and stuff so therefore, it doesn't matter if it adapts, it still needs to have to have those "rest" weeks more often than beginners just because how much more damage it takes from the higher workloads and bigger weights. It ain't a system that has somewhat unlimited capacities, the more you can do and lift, the more it effects on the CNS and therefore, 20kg squat ain't the same as 300kg squat, whether you're a beginner or an elite powerlifter and whether you have trained 2 weeks or 20 years, it takes its toll regardless.

You can definitely work around 85-95% but the whole program is built around the volume and around 70-80% range where those 85-95% 1RM weights are being used occasionally, mostly when peaking.

Anyways, i don't want to take this too far from the guys who are here to seek help, tips or anything. If anybody needs some sort of assistance or guide for what to do, im sure me or someone else is willing to help out the fellow Juve fans. Im sure there's enough bodybuilding forums for that broscience stuff.

 

[Post Ironic]

Recovery is certainly important and the average gym-goer can’t recover like a fully supported elite level athlete. They have access to support staff on every level and nothing to focus on beside training. Everything else is taken care of for them.

But the CNS adaptation that happens for athletes in strength and power sports certainly is huge for the training volume they do. The Bulgarian weightlifting team in the 80s (supported by steroids of course, but so was everyone else with far less effective results) trained 6 days/week close to year round, 3 workouts/day M-W-F, 2 workouts/day Tues-Thurs-Sat. And almost exclusively lifted in the 85% 1RM and higher range. Their entire premise was based on increasing slowly to that volume as young athletes reached maturity and having CNS adaptation allow for those training volumes.

Same with the Chinese weightlifting team that is so dominant now. They do a lot more ancillary and support exercises in higher reps, but they work almost exclusively in the 1-3 rep range (85%-100%competition 1RM) for squats/pulls/deadlifts/O lifts several days a week. Most of these guys have lifted their heaviest in training as opposed to comps. Lu Xiaojun, Tien Tao, etc.

Of course, the low rep range means the actual tonnage lifted and volume is nowhere near a bodybuilder, so that helps a lot. But to develop maximal/near maximal strength and power requires training frequently in that range, even more so when one doesn’t want those strength/power gains to be accompanied by weight gains.

 

[Post Ironic]

@JCK

Are you still training the O. lifts? How goes it?

 

[JCK]

@JCK

Are you still training the O. lifts? How goes it?

No I stopped that a year or so ago. The only lifting I do nowadays is dead lift @50%, squats @70% and bench press at my capacity which is very low.

I mostly work with the kettlebell if I am not running or cycling.

 

[Arcticdaly]

Pussys juice or get out.

 

[pavluska]

vs


Wich is reel?

 

[campionesidd]

vs


Wich is reel?

For the first approach, How do you know what you're actual strength is if you're only going at 70% all the time?
I'm not a buff dude, but I've seen way better results with my strength and physique when I pushed myself.

 

[Pegi]

It's all about recovery and it's all personal. You do the absolute most what you're capable of to recover, simple as that. If you could do all the reps with 100%, doing every single rep til the absolute last, three times a day, 7 days a week and you could recover from it, wouldn't you do so to get the best results? Yes you would. Also, it comes down to time so let's say if you were to train at 70%, then you're basically fully recovered within 24 hours, you would need to train again, then same again after another 24 hours and so on. You would need to basically live at the gym, do all the stuff for every muscle group, maybe even split it to 2 different sessions etc. and you still need to do it every single day and it would require alot of time with all the travelling, preparing, warm ups etc. That time is actually quite important in here, if you could hit the gym 3-4x a week and let's say you got that 45mins to do all the necessary stuff, i'd say i wouldn't personally leave any reps hanging just because i wouldn't need to recover for the next day or even day after tomorrow.

It comes down to recovery, time and goals.

 

[campionesidd]

It's all about recovery and it's all personal. You do the absolute most what you're capable of to recover, simple as that. If you could do all the reps with 100%, doing every single rep til the absolute last, three times a day, 7 days a week and you could recover from it, wouldn't you do so to get the best results? Yes you would. Also, it comes down to time so let's say if you were to train at 70%, then you're basically fully recovered within 24 hours, you would need to train again, then same again after another 24 hours and so on. You would need to basically live at the gym, do all the stuff for every muscle group, maybe even split it to 2 different sessions etc. and you still need to do it every single day and it would require alot of time with all the travelling, preparing, warm ups etc. That time is actually quite important in here, if you could hit the gym 3-4x a week and let's say you got that 45mins to do all the necessary stuff, i'd say i wouldn't personally leave any reps hanging just because i wouldn't need to recover for the next day or even day after tomorrow.

It comes down to recovery, time and goals.

Also 10 reps at 70% is not equal to 7 reps at 100%. The latter is way harder (impossible, even).
Just because you do 1000 reps at very low intensity doesn't mean that its better than doing 500 reps at high intensity.

 

[JCK]

Also 10 reps at 70% is not equal to 7 reps at 100%. The latter is way harder (impossible, even).
Just because you do 1000 reps at very low intensity doesn't mean that its better than doing 500 reps at high intensity.

It depends if you want to build strength or stamina. In the end it's all individual and dependent on what one wants to achieve.

 

[pavluska]

Just to clarify, it's not about weights. Weight is constant.

It's about training to failure (less volume per week) vs not training to failure (more volume per week).

Question is if the last reps when you're training to failure are better in terms of gainz compared to any other rep.

If all reps are equal, the volume argument does make sense.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

When it comes to daily protein intake, does it matter when you get the protein?

For example, if you need 150kg of protein, does it make a difference if you consume that within say an 8 hour period over 2-3 meals or over a 16 hour period over 3-4 meals?

Can you have too much protein at one time, where some of it won't be absorbed and used by the body but instead be discarded?

 

[pavluska]

When it comes to daily protein intake, does it matter when you get the protein?

For example, if you need 150kg of protein, does it make a difference if you consume that within say an 8 hour period over 2-3 meals or over a 16 hour period over 3-4 meals?

Can you have too much protein at one time, where some of it won't be absorbed and used by the body but instead be discarded?

Doesn't matter when you take your protein according to studies. Anytime within 24 hrs.

Protein immediately after working out e.g. is broscience apparently.

 

[j0ker]

When it comes to daily protein intake, does it matter when you get the protein?

For example, if you need 150kg of protein, does it make a difference if you consume that within say an 8 hour period over 2-3 meals or over a 16 hour period over 3-4 meals?

Can you have too much protein at one time, where some of it won't be absorbed and used by the body but instead be discarded?

I don't think it matters if it's over 8 or 16 hours, but prettty much all studies I have read said it's best to spread it over 4 meals with 20-25 grams at each.

"It is therefore a relatively simple and elegant solution to consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day – if indeed the primary goal is to build muscle. Using the upper CI daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal. This tactic would apply what is currently known to maximize acute anabolic responses as well as chronic anabolic adaptations."

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Doesn't matter when you take your protein according to studies. Anytime within 24 hrs.

Protein immediately after working out e.g. is broscience apparently.

I don't think it matters if it's over 8 or 16 hours, but prettty much all studies I have read said it's best to spread it over 4 meals with 20-25 grams at each.

"It is therefore a relatively simple and elegant solution to consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day – if indeed the primary goal is to build muscle. Using the upper CI daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal. This tactic would apply what is currently known to maximize acute anabolic responses as well as chronic anabolic adaptations."

A lot of conflicting info out there.