Sell Higuain for 60M to EPL club and play Dybala as #9 or sell Dybala for 120M to Barcelona and keep Higuain for 2-3 more years with proper wingers?
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Gonzalo Higuaín (35 Viewers)
- Thread starter Marc
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How is it not true?
Oh pardon I didn't check the expiration date.
3 at back was also deemed an old school formation, until pl witnessed the greatness that is Conte, now half the league is running with that.
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We have a left footed Del piero and expect and force him to play like zidane
Oh pardon I didn't check the expiration date.
3 at back was also deemed an old school formation, until pl witnessed the greatness that is Conte, now half the league is running with that.
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We have a left footed Del piero and expect and force him to play like zidane
so what do you expect, 2 strikers waiting around the box to receive service? ofcourse Dybala will have creative duties as the SS, its just that his 1st touch sucks and hes so slow that he struggles to create space for himself and others. guy is a 9 that is forced to play as the SS due to Higgy occupying his space. we should have him as our lone striker, or supported by someone like Mandzukic or Cavani, someone that will create space for him, not take it away. but thats something we should have thought about before spending 90M on Higuain, now its too late
im not saying its outdated, the 4312, my question was implying that we dont have the dominant btb players we had 3 years ago, so 4312 wont cut it. unless you want to start both Khedira and Matuidi at the expense of Cuadrado/Costa/Mandzukic, just to fit in Bernardeschi?
and lol at Conte introducing the 352 to the world, that was a really good one hehehe
im not saying its outdated, the 4312, my question was implying that we dont have the dominant btb players we had 3 years ago, so 4312 wont cut it. unless you want to start both Khedira and Matuidi at the expense of Cuadrado/Costa/Mandzukic, just to fit in Bernardeschi?
and lol at Conte introducing the 352 to the world, that was a really good one hehehe
We have the fullbacks and Marchisio available. Matuidi's workrate means Sandro can push high and on right you would have Dybala to drift wide at times.
Playing him closer to Higuain also would help freeing up one of them at times, as opposed to what we have right now Higuain is constantly isolated by center backs. Dybala also can atleast get a touch in dangerous areas where the opposition don't have the whole team back behind the ball.
He's shown it time and again that he can create space with a single feint or catch both his marker and goalie off guard placing his shots. Problem is when he has to share the majority of driving the team forward or drop deep to bring others into the game.
Costa is still a super sub anyway and Cuad is replaced with Berna in our buildup. Instead of everything going through right side we would have Berna more centrally.
Conte perfected 3 at the back formation
Playing him closer to Higuain also would help freeing up one of them at times, as opposed to what we have right now Higuain is constantly isolated by center backs. Dybala also can atleast get a touch in dangerous areas where the opposition don't have the whole team back behind the ball.
He's shown it time and again that he can create space with a single feint or catch both his marker and goalie off guard placing his shots. Problem is when he has to share the majority of driving the team forward or drop deep to bring others into the game.
Costa is still a super sub anyway and Cuad is replaced with Berna in our buildup. Instead of everything going through right side we would have Berna more centrally.
Conte perfected 3 at the back formation
We have the fullbacks and Marchisio available. Matuidi's workrate means Sandro can push high and on right you would have Dybala to drift wide at times.
Playing him closer to Higuain also would help freeing up one of them at times, as opposed to what we have right now Higuain is constantly isolated by center backs. Dybala also can atleast get a touch in dangerous areas where the opposition don't have the whole team back behind the ball.
He's shown it time and again that he can create space with a single feint or catch both his marker and goalie off guard placing his shots. Problem is when he has to share the majority of driving the team forward or drop deep to bring others into the game.
Costa is still a super sub anyway and Cuad is replaced with Berna in our buildup. Instead of everything going through right side we would have Berna more centrally.
Conte perfected 3 at the back formation
Playing him closer to Higuain also would help freeing up one of them at times, as opposed to what we have right now Higuain is constantly isolated by center backs. Dybala also can atleast get a touch in dangerous areas where the opposition don't have the whole team back behind the ball.
He's shown it time and again that he can create space with a single feint or catch both his marker and goalie off guard placing his shots. Problem is when he has to share the majority of driving the team forward or drop deep to bring others into the game.
Costa is still a super sub anyway and Cuad is replaced with Berna in our buildup. Instead of everything going through right side we would have Berna more centrally.
Conte perfected 3 at the back formation
it wont free up shit. Higuain was the main striker his whole career. when he wasnt (2010-2014 under Mourinho) he was benched. he requires the team to work for him to be effective. he doesent provide enough in other areas to make up for not having service each game, which is why hes invisible if he doesent get created chances for by others. and you want him to do what exactly to create opportunities for Dybala? hes no Mandzukic, he wont work his ass off all over the field and play support striker for Dybala, which is why the partnership was ineffective for 1.5 years now. same reason Aguero-Higgy never worked, even when they had Messi behind them
hes also shown that he cant control the ball when he gets it under pressure time and time again. you bench Higgy for Berna or an extra CM to have Dybala closer to the goal, you dont change the way we play completely
Costa and Cuadrado should rotate at RM, they both have they pros and cons, and give us different things depending on opponent and what we need. id also putting Berna at AM but in the 4231, but that would require benching one of the Argentines
352 was created in 2010 by Mazzari, then Conte took the concept and polished it. got it
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Higuain. with the transfer fee and wages, we could add a top b2b CM. wont happen tho, we love our Gordo Gerardo
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Costa Aubameyang Cuads
Sergej Pjanic Kovacic
so you want to play 2 strikers, just to have Dybala drift right to provide width, and b2b Matuidi to cover for AS who will provide width at the other side? then you have who, Khedira protecting midfield with Pjanic? congrats, you just unbalanced the whole team, benched all 3 of Mandzukic, Cuads and Costa, just for the sake of fielding Berna
it wont free up shit. Higuain was the main striker his whole career. when he wasnt (2010-2014 under Mourinho) he was benched. he requires the team to work for him to be effective. he doesent provide enough in other areas to make up for not having service each game, which is why hes invisible if he doesent get created chances for by others. and you want him to do what exactly to create opportunities for Dybala? hes no Mandzukic, he wont work his ass off all over the field and play support striker for Dybala, which is why the partnership was ineffective for 1.5 years now. same reason Aguero-Higgy never worked, even when they had Messi behind them
hes also shown that he cant control the ball when he gets it under pressure time and time again. you bench Higgy for Berna or an extra CM to have Dybala closer to the goal, you dont change the way we play completely
Costa and Cuadrado should rotate at RM, they both have they pros and cons, and give us different things depending on opponent and what we need. id also putting Berna at AM but in the 4231, but that would require benching one of the Argentines
352 was created in 2010 by Mazzari, then Conte took the concept and polished it. got it
- - - Updated - - -
Higuain. with the transfer fee and wages, we could add a top b2b CM. wont happen tho, we love our Gordo Gerardo
- - - Updated - - -
Costa Aubameyang Cuads
Sergej Pjanic Kovacic
it wont free up shit. Higuain was the main striker his whole career. when he wasnt (2010-2014 under Mourinho) he was benched. he requires the team to work for him to be effective. he doesent provide enough in other areas to make up for not having service each game, which is why hes invisible if he doesent get created chances for by others. and you want him to do what exactly to create opportunities for Dybala? hes no Mandzukic, he wont work his ass off all over the field and play support striker for Dybala, which is why the partnership was ineffective for 1.5 years now. same reason Aguero-Higgy never worked, even when they had Messi behind them
hes also shown that he cant control the ball when he gets it under pressure time and time again. you bench Higgy for Berna or an extra CM to have Dybala closer to the goal, you dont change the way we play completely
Costa and Cuadrado should rotate at RM, they both have they pros and cons, and give us different things depending on opponent and what we need. id also putting Berna at AM but in the 4231, but that would require benching one of the Argentines
352 was created in 2010 by Mazzari, then Conte took the concept and polished it. got it
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Higuain. with the transfer fee and wages, we could add a top b2b CM. wont happen tho, we love our Gordo Gerardo
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Costa Aubameyang Cuads
Sergej Pjanic Kovacic
Higuain will not be asked to do as much as he does at the moment playing his "preferred" lone striker. There's also a difference between playing with the ball in or close to opposition box than in midfield. With the great support our 2 man mid provide when Marchisio or Pjanic are not there.
I know this is turning into another argument you're focussed to win with your "sarcastic" tone, but I'm merely discussing the possibilities, you can be more open to others ideas or discuss in a mature manner next time.
the whole Conte thing was to keep it light
right now, we are very balanced. we defend compact in 2 lines of 4, and create good chances on offense. i dont need to remind you that we had 2 derbies and a key CL game inbetween, and were unlucky to go away with 9 pts in all of them,without conceding a single goal. i dont think we even let a shot on goal happen vs inter and Napoli, maybe 2-3 max. so yes, this team looks like it found its identity and i see no reson to make such drastic changes as dropping key performers and introducing young players that still need to prove themselves (which he will, as Max introduces him slowly to the team, as he has done with every new young guy we bought last 4 summers).
implying Dybala plays in midfield is just so not true. go watch every team in Europe and see their attackers drop deep and collect the ball from time to time. thats literally their job nowadays. people here act like Dybala camps next to Pjanic and plays Xavi role for us, when hes our most advanced player other than Higuain for 90% of the game. no one plays with two 9s except us (maybe Atletico, not sure), they are our star players so its tough to bench either, and they arent compatible to work smoothly together, which is why one sacrifices for the other (mostly Dybala). just one game i wanted to see Mandzu-Berna-Costa/Cuads behind Dybala, and the beginning of the season was the perfect chance as Higuain flat out sucked, but Max never tried it. a shame
im not focused to win shit, youre just wrong. there is no worse formation for us at the moment than the 4312, even 352 is better since it keeps Cuadrado in the game. we dont have superior 2 ways mids that can dominate any midfield, we dont have strikers that are good at providing width, and our only AM (other than Dybala who tries hard to be one) is a unproven kid that spent most of his career playing wide. meanwhile we are supposed to bench a guy who wins duels in our won box, provides aerial threat on offense, can hold the ball as good as anyone and creates space for AS in Mandzukic, our best winger in Cuadrado/a Douglas Costa who is steadily improving in ways Max wants him to play? yeah, not gonna happen.
and i get it, you like Conte
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also, forgot to mention it, we dont even have the midfield depth for it
Pjanic/Marchisio
Khedira/Bentancur Matuidi/Sturaro
Marchisio barely even plays at this point so it will be Bentancur rotating with the starting trio, with Marchisio and Sturaro making cameo appearances from he bench. in the 4312, the midfield has to work so much that it will be impossible for us to sustain our level for an entire season, without burning out eventually
implying Dybala plays in midfield is just so not true. go watch every team in Europe and see their attackers drop deep and collect the ball from time to time. thats literally their job nowadays. people here act like Dybala camps next to Pjanic and plays Xavi role for us, when hes our most advanced player other than Higuain for 90% of the game. no one plays with two 9s except us (maybe Atletico, not sure), they are our star players so its tough to bench either, and they arent compatible to work smoothly together, which is why one sacrifices for the other (mostly Dybala). just one game i wanted to see Mandzu-Berna-Costa/Cuads behind Dybala, and the beginning of the season was the perfect chance as Higuain flat out sucked, but Max never tried it. a shame
im not focused to win shit, youre just wrong. there is no worse formation for us at the moment than the 4312, even 352 is better since it keeps Cuadrado in the game. we dont have superior 2 ways mids that can dominate any midfield, we dont have strikers that are good at providing width, and our only AM (other than Dybala who tries hard to be one) is a unproven kid that spent most of his career playing wide. meanwhile we are supposed to bench a guy who wins duels in our won box, provides aerial threat on offense, can hold the ball as good as anyone and creates space for AS in Mandzukic, our best winger in Cuadrado/a Douglas Costa who is steadily improving in ways Max wants him to play? yeah, not gonna happen.
and i get it, you like Conte
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also, forgot to mention it, we dont even have the midfield depth for it
Pjanic/Marchisio
Khedira/Bentancur Matuidi/Sturaro
Marchisio barely even plays at this point so it will be Bentancur rotating with the starting trio, with Marchisio and Sturaro making cameo appearances from he bench. in the 4312, the midfield has to work so much that it will be impossible for us to sustain our level for an entire season, without burning out eventually
We were unlucky to not win against inter as we were lucky enough to win against napoli by converting our only chance. Besides I don't believe luck played a huge role in inter match as we didn't really test handa besides the deflected cross that land on Mandzu. Draw was the deserved as we spent a half not taking the game to inter and when we did we were not good enough to score.
So looking at that the balance part again mostly comes to when we defend not in our general play.
Fair point regarding getting 7 out of 9 points in a challenging week. Though I don't agree this team has found its identity or best eleven when switching formation and personnels right before inter match suggests otherwise.
It wasn't just a matter of rotation either but knowing our primary formation wouldn't be good enough for that encounter. Which takes us back to if there are alternatives that would get the best out of majority of squad and it's key players and us play effective football again, where we can easily switch gears and not every match even against bottom half look like a grind.
You don't believe we have b2b players to play mid 3 while Max has tried it several times and hinted on using it from the start of season. With Marchisio available I do think we can control the games better that way than relying on hardworking wingers one of them being a make shift forward.
In any case with any formation we will have a few "high profile" players hitting the bench, that is the depth of this team. It's matter of coach's preferred players and whom he decides to mainly utilize and build the team around.
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I don't count Stu, although there will be games he could get minutes once we click with mid three. We will have the other five to rotate.
Besides we can have a fluid front three with two wingers playing off of Mandzu. Funnily enough that is Max's favourite and what he used to do with Balo, el sha, Robinho and Boateng.
Milan had one of their best runs , even though they robbed fiorentina of 4th spot on last day.
I honestly hope Max try it with our squad. At the same time I give you there's no major reason for a change while we more or less are getting the results. I just don't think what we currently have is something we can build upon, considering the grind and general mood of our players not enjoying their football.
So looking at that the balance part again mostly comes to when we defend not in our general play.
Fair point regarding getting 7 out of 9 points in a challenging week. Though I don't agree this team has found its identity or best eleven when switching formation and personnels right before inter match suggests otherwise.
It wasn't just a matter of rotation either but knowing our primary formation wouldn't be good enough for that encounter. Which takes us back to if there are alternatives that would get the best out of majority of squad and it's key players and us play effective football again, where we can easily switch gears and not every match even against bottom half look like a grind.
You don't believe we have b2b players to play mid 3 while Max has tried it several times and hinted on using it from the start of season. With Marchisio available I do think we can control the games better that way than relying on hardworking wingers one of them being a make shift forward.
In any case with any formation we will have a few "high profile" players hitting the bench, that is the depth of this team. It's matter of coach's preferred players and whom he decides to mainly utilize and build the team around.
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I don't count Stu, although there will be games he could get minutes once we click with mid three. We will have the other five to rotate.
Besides we can have a fluid front three with two wingers playing off of Mandzu. Funnily enough that is Max's favourite and what he used to do with Balo, el sha, Robinho and Boateng.
Milan had one of their best runs , even though they robbed fiorentina of 4th spot on last day.
I honestly hope Max try it with our squad. At the same time I give you there's no major reason for a change while we more or less are getting the results. I just don't think what we currently have is something we can build upon, considering the grind and general mood of our players not enjoying their football.
how were we lucky against Napoli when other than the goal, Higuain, Matuidi, Benatia all missed good chances? we had the better chances vs Napoli and won, we had the better chances vs inter and didnt win. on our best 2 chances to score vs inter, Mandzukic 1st had the ball bounce off of him to the GK and then slipped. he also had a very good chance stopped in the 1st half and cleared off the goal line afterwards.
all we did vs inter was put in Mandzukic instead of an underwhelming Dybala, so we had a 442/451 now with Mandzukic defending wide and joining Higuain in attack, otherwise it was the same approach. it was also tactical to counter inters wingers and 3 CMs.
we have Matuidi and Khedira, and while Matuidi covers ground like a maniac and Sami offers movement without the ball, they cant bring the production of Vidal and Pogba on both ends. when we used 3 CMs, like in the "4321" vs Napoli, one (Matuidi) defends wide while we have a winger defend the other side, which leaves Dybala and Higuain upfront. in the 4312 you have Khedira defending wide, which is not a good idea. if we had a 2014-2016 Marchisio, i might agree with you, but we dont. he played 90 minutes only once this season and plays very rarely. so its either Max hates him/loves Khedira/whatever else fans like to speculate about him, or he cant play multiple games at a high level like he used to. he himself said he was surprised he could play 90 minutes, and that was against Benevento lol. Bentancur is still growing so maybe with him in a few years, but right now no.
playing 3 CMs is OK with me if:
-one of them is Matuidi, who covers so much ground and is a LCM/LM for us basically
-Cuadrado plays, or Costa (with a game like vs Napoli)
all we did vs inter was put in Mandzukic instead of an underwhelming Dybala, so we had a 442/451 now with Mandzukic defending wide and joining Higuain in attack, otherwise it was the same approach. it was also tactical to counter inters wingers and 3 CMs.
we have Matuidi and Khedira, and while Matuidi covers ground like a maniac and Sami offers movement without the ball, they cant bring the production of Vidal and Pogba on both ends. when we used 3 CMs, like in the "4321" vs Napoli, one (Matuidi) defends wide while we have a winger defend the other side, which leaves Dybala and Higuain upfront. in the 4312 you have Khedira defending wide, which is not a good idea. if we had a 2014-2016 Marchisio, i might agree with you, but we dont. he played 90 minutes only once this season and plays very rarely. so its either Max hates him/loves Khedira/whatever else fans like to speculate about him, or he cant play multiple games at a high level like he used to. he himself said he was surprised he could play 90 minutes, and that was against Benevento lol. Bentancur is still growing so maybe with him in a few years, but right now no.
playing 3 CMs is OK with me if:
-one of them is Matuidi, who covers so much ground and is a LCM/LM for us basically
-Cuadrado plays, or Costa (with a game like vs Napoli)
I forgot about Reina's fluke save on Matuidi's volley, but you are pushing it with the other two, over hit pass to Higuain where he was on an impossible angle and Benatia skying a volley. In that case Napoli had their fair share of chances. We were lucky to convert our first clear cut chance off a counter and continue the game plan and spend the rest of the match camping in our own box.
Mandzu only scuffed his first shot, the second cross at 100mps hitting his shin, not even Ronaldinho could bring that down.
The Copenhagen match, that's where you could call a team unlucky, our strikers bottling it, although saying the same thing back then was considered an excuse.
I'm not talking about the napoli match btw, yeah Matuidi pretty much played LM in that game. Besides inter, we played a proper mid 3 in a game or two earlier in the season.
I do believe Max favors Khedira, but I didn't know Marchisio said something along those lines. Was it recent or when he first recovered from surgery?
Anyhow, you're basically OK with replacing Mandzu with Matuidi, that's even worse. Could be a one off but Matuidi was dreadful playing that role.
Mandzu only scuffed his first shot, the second cross at 100mps hitting his shin, not even Ronaldinho could bring that down.
The Copenhagen match, that's where you could call a team unlucky, our strikers bottling it, although saying the same thing back then was considered an excuse.
I'm not talking about the napoli match btw, yeah Matuidi pretty much played LM in that game. Besides inter, we played a proper mid 3 in a game or two earlier in the season.
I do believe Max favors Khedira, but I didn't know Marchisio said something along those lines. Was it recent or when he first recovered from surgery?
Anyhow, you're basically OK with replacing Mandzu with Matuidi, that's even worse. Could be a one off but Matuidi was dreadful playing that role.