Giuseppe Marotta (183 Viewers)

[zizinho]

No, actually you're the one defending something you know deep down was wrong. A 15M offer for Draxler is insulting for a player like Draxler, yet you had no problems making yourself looking like an idiot fapping for Zaza, a nobody, a player we bought for 18M to be our fifth choice striker. Even guys who are not labelled as a Beppe hater like me found his offer to Schalke comical. I have no business to talk to with guys who'd defend Beppe even he'll $#@! their mother, so don't bother continuing this discussion, because I won't.

was 9M for Tevez insulting? i wonder if you were going full retard around that time saying that Beppe is embarrassing the club and such, probably yes considering how clueless your are when it comes down to negotiations and transfers.

 

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[PedroFlu]

Marotta is right on Draxler, he's not worth more than 15M + bonus. Definitely not.

He overpayed for Dybala but he had to. Some opportunities you can't miss, he's a young talented SS who was willing to come to Juve while he developed playing at Serie A. We had to overpay because of Inter and Milan.

What I don't agree is with deciding to sell Vidal, and also to do it without getting the right price for him. And also paying 18M for Zaza, that's nuts in my book, specially seeing how the squad is built now.

Right now we have a very good team with a 4 men defense + Marchisio, Sturaro/Asamoah/Khedira and Pogba already flying around. I'm good with these guys + Pereyra as an AM, specially on Europe.

I really want to see a partnership of Morata + Dybala upfront, it can definitely be lethal, specially in Europe, countering with a very quick midfield and Pereyra behind. Mandzukic definitely has value, but I'd rather have Morata's talent and playstyle. Mandzukic is a great option for Serie A and specific matchups, but my dream partnership is Pereyra - Dybala - Morata. That's why Zaza keeps looking highly overpaid and unnecessary, since he's somewhat redundant to what we already have with Mandzukic, who is better than him at what they specifically do.

If the adequate midfielder isn't available, just stay put.

Also Siqueira for 2 + 7/9 with the OPTION to buy looks good to me.

 

[Hust]

So stop the blabbing.

whenever you try to insult Beppe without a reason, ill be there to point out your nonsense

u guys

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He will obviously look at Draxler with one eye but lurk around with that other.

I can see us going for a midfielder in last days of Mercato when some clubs will be looking to offload players from their books.

That's actually a great point. I wonder if that is what the maestro is waiting on.

 

[Ocelot]

Stop saying that Zaza cost 18 million, you can't look at that transaction in isolation. We got 7.5 million for half of him last year (too much), and it's intertwined with the Berardi deal as well.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

whatever we paid for zaza it was too much

 

[Klin]

Stop saying that Zaza cost 18 million, you can't look at that transaction in isolation. We got 7.5 million for half of him last year (too much), and it's intertwined with the Berardi deal as well.

Is this confirmed?

And it doesn't matter if we bought him for 10M or 18M, 15M for Draxler was an insulting offer, no two ways about it.

 

[zizinho]

Is this confirmed?

And it doesn't matter if we bought him for 10M or 18M, 15M for Draxler was an insulting offer, no two ways about it.

15M for Draxler was NOT an insulting offer.

 

[Hust]

technically is was 15m plus bonuses

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Stop saying that Zaza cost 18 million, you can't look at that transaction in isolation. We got 7.5 million for half of him last year (too much), and it's intertwined with the Berardi deal as well.

I don't know why you try. You will never see Pedroflu or Badass admit it.

 

[zizinho]

technically is was 15m plus bonuses

yeah. considering his injury problems, it was the right thing to try to make a good amount of the payments in bonuses related to number of performances. we shouldnt go higher than 25M + 7-8M bonuses for him

I don't know why you try. You will never see Pedroflu or Badass admit it.

or Klin

 

[Hust]

yeah. considering his injury problems, it was the right thing to try to make a good amount of the payments in bonuses related to number of performances. we shouldnt go higher than 25M + 7-8M bonuses for him



or Klin

Imagine a 30m buy and got injured in preaseason

 

[zizinho]

Imagine a 30m buy and got injured in preaseason

those same people who are saying 15M is an insulting offer would be camping in this thread making insults to the Great Man for paying 30M for a cripple.

 

[JuveJay]

 

[PedroFlu]

Stop saying that Zaza cost 18 million, you can't look at that transaction in isolation. We got 7.5 million for half of him last year (too much), and it's intertwined with the Berardi deal as well.

I've being in eternal discussions about it.

Zaza was a player fully owned by Sassuolo last year.

Previous business with him were awesome.

Jun 2012 - Zaza is fully owned by Sampdoria. Loaned out to Ascoli in Serie B.

Jun 2013 - Zaza had 1 yr contract left with Sampdoria. Sampdoria sells him to Juve, his full rights, for 3.5M (+ paying 2M for landing 1/2 Gabbiadini for 5.5M)

Jun 2013 - Juve, after buying full Zaza for 3.5M, sells 1/2 to Sassuolo for 2.5M.

Jun 2014 - Sassuolo buys the other half for 7.5M.

Jun 2015 - Juve pays 18M for him.

So basically we bought him for 3.5M, got 10M for Sassuolo 1 yr later. 6.5M profit. Buys him for 18M. 11.5M total cost.

The thing is that the operations are set apart. We weren't obliged to buy Zaza this year. We had done brillant previous deals regarding him, making a profit of 6.5M in just one year.

But then we took the bad decision of paying 18M for him this year. We could just let him at Sassuolo for another year, he was a Sassuolo player and they obviously wanted to keep the guy - this was stated many times.

So, 2013-2014 - excellent business regarding Zaza.

2015 - bad business regarding Zaza.

What proves the fact it was separate operations?

Because his full rights were valued 15M last year and 18M this year. They paid 7.5M for half a year ago. So basically, if last year we said: buy him now, we'll buy him back next year. Then we paid 3M to loan the guy out to Sassuolo. Doesn't make much sense.

Berardi's influence on the deal may be on the price, but not in the decision to take Zaza back. I actually like him as prospect CF rotation Italian player, but we had other positions to reinforce before the 4th or 5th striker of the squad.

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15M for Draxler was NOT an insulting offer.

I agree. Definitely not. He's not worth more than 15M + bonus at this point. If they consider it insulting, great. Don't raise the offer, don't do the deal.

 

[Klin]

Imagine a 30m buy and got injured in preaseason

So let me get this straight. We shouldn't buy him for 30M because of his injury history and that would fuck us?

But buying a player like him for 15M won't? What do we do if he gets injured, and that's a very big probability?

If you have serious health concerns over a player before making an investment on him, don't go for him in the first place. 15M or 30M, if he gets injured in pre-season, it would still fuck us pretty badly because we'll start the season without a proper AM. Those 15M woud be insignificant.

This is not a player who will have Padoin's role. This player is being bought to start.

 

[Hust]

So let me get this straight. We shouldn't buy him for 30M because of his injury history and that would fuck us?

But buying a player like him for 15M won't? What do we do if he gets injured, and that's a very big probability?

If you have serious health concerns over a player before making an investment on him, don't go for him in the first place. 15M or 30M, if he gets injured in pre-season, it would still fuck us pretty badly because we'll start the season without a proper AM. Those 15M woud be insignificant.

This is not a player who will have Padoin's role. This player is being bought to start.

i didn't say he wouldn't. point of my post was to draw attention to what the reactions would have been.

 

[PedroFlu]

The difference in point of views about these operations - selling Vidal and buying Zaza - is that some feel that Marotta had to sell Vidal to Bayern, he had no other option. So despite no wanting to see Vidal leave (and nobody did), Marotta could do nothing about it.

The same way, we were obliged to buy Zaza, because of Berardi. Nothing Marotta could do about it.

Come on, Marotta took both decisions. It's his judgement. He decided to sell Vidal for 37M + 3M and to buy Zaza this summer for 18M. Maybe if he knew he would have to sell Vidal and have a position in the midfield to fill in, he wouldn't have bought Zaza. That's another story.

But Marotta is accountable for every decision he makes, the good and the bad. These both decisions so far are bad to me. Khedira's signing was OK, Ogbonna's sale excellent, Dybala's signing good or very good, Mandzukic good or very good.

He takes decisions all the time, separate operations can be judged, and criticism on specific deals shouldn't be mislead to a bad mercato overall. But selling Vidal is an absolutely vital decision, the way it happened, and it just doesn't look good, specially considering the fact that Marotta doesn't have a replacement and didn't have one before selling the guy.

 

[zizinho]

I've being in eternal discussions about it.

Zaza was a player fully owned by Sassuolo last year.

Previous business with him were awesome.

Jun 2012 - Zaza is fully owned by Sampdoria. Loaned out to Ascoli in Serie B.

Jun 2013 - Zaza had 1 yr contract left with Sampdoria. Sampdoria sells him to Juve, his full rights, for 3.5M (+ paying 2M for landing 1/2 Gabbiadini for 5.5M)

Jun 2013 - Juve, after buying full Zaza for 3.5M, sells 1/2 to Sassuolo for 2.5M.

Jun 2014 - Sassuolo buys the other half for 7.5M.

Jun 2015 - Juve pays 18M for him.

So basically we bought him for 3.5M, got 10M for Sassuolo 1 yr later. 6.5M profit. Buys him for 18M. 11.5M total cost.

The thing is that the operations are set apart. We weren't obliged to buy Zaza this year. We had done brillant previous deals regarding him, making a profit of 6.5M in just one year.

But then we took the bad decision of paying 18M for him this year. We could just let him at Sassuolo for another year, he was a Sassuolo player and they obviously wanted to keep the guy - this was stated many times.

So, 2013-2014 - excellent business regarding Zaza.

2015 - bad business regarding Zaza.

What proves the fact it was separate operations?

Because his full rights were valued 15M last year and 18M this year. They paid 7.5M for half a year ago. So basically, if last year we said: buy him now, we'll buy him back next year. Then we paid 3M to loan the guy out to Sassuolo. Doesn't make much sense.

Berardi's influence on the deal may be on the price, but not in the decision to take Zaza back. I actually like him as prospect CF rotation Italian player, but we had other positions to reinforce before the 4th or 5th striker of the squad.

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I agree. Definitely not. He's not worth more than 15M + bonus at this point. If they consider it insulting, great. Don't raise the offer, don't do the deal.

what you decide to ignore about Zaza is that the previous transactions are all connected to us buying him right now. Sassuolo would never pay us 7.5M for his half if they werent sure we would buy him the coming summer. basically, it was a way for us to balance the books (or whatever), last summer when we didnt reach CL KO stages and didnt earn the CL money that was planned ahead in the budget for that year. we already had 5 strikers at that time and Zaza was not needed, so we decided to sell him to them with a guarantee that we will buy him this summer. if we sold him last summer for 4M or 5M, the price this summer would be lower but it would also have a less positive effect economically on our last years budget.

about Draxler, i think he is worth around 30M tbh, maybe a bit more than that. Schalke is ofcourse asking for more than that since they dont really are in a hurry to sell. his injury is a bit of a problem, thats probably the reason why we are trying to deal with bonuses, but if they after our 1st offer come out and say they dont want to negotiate anymore, then we have no business with them.

 

[Klin]

i didn't say he wouldn't. point of my post was to draw attention to what the reactions would have been.

Oh, you were fishing for reactions. Of course.

 

[Hust]

Oh, you were fishing for reactions. Of course.

You realize how similar we are, right?

 

[zizinho]

So let me get this straight. We shouldn't buy him for 30M because of his injury history and that would $#@! us?

But buying a player like him for 15M won't? What do we do if he gets injured, and that's a very big probability?

If you have serious health concerns over a player before making an investment on him, don't go for him in the first place. 15M or 30M, if he gets injured in pre-season, it would still $#@! us pretty badly because we'll start the season without a proper AM. Those 15M woud be insignificant.

This is not a player who will have Padoin's role. This player is being bought to start.

Draxler would have been an investment for the future, same as Dybala. if such a 30M investment gets injured often, it will 1. not give you the option to use him in games, which is bad since you paid 30M for him, and 2. more importantly, he wont reach the potential he could have if he stayed healthy and we wont be able to develop him with the rest of the team so he wont reach the necessary level of quality and chemistry with the rest of the team to justify the 30M price tag in the future. thats why there is a big difference in paying 30M for him and 15M + bonuses on number of performances. but i wouldnt expect you to understand that, because if you did, what else would you have to moan about.