Cronios wanted a proven CF/ST, but as we all have utterly being trolled by Marotta, we have subconsciously lowered our standard; atthis rate, anything that's better than matri/quaq/boriello/bendtner is acceptable.
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Giuseppe Marotta (96 Viewers)
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So, lets just look at it season by season.
2010: Quagliarella, Matri, Krasic, Aquilani (the supposed best young player in the world according to Buffon), and Pepe. All either failures or essentially deep bench players. What did we say? Marotta is building a good base, this takes time.
2011: Pirlo, Vidal, Lichtsteiner, Vucinic, Giaccherini, Estigarribia, Elia. Some good, some bad, some ugly. Pirlo was already established and a no brainer, Vidal was great in Germany and wanted to come to Juventus a la Diego. The others were mediocre.
2012: Pogba, Asamoah, Giovinco, Lucio, Bendtner, Peluso. First two are very good, and I will give credit for the Pogba signing as he was highly touted, but the others are either easy singings or simply blah.
Looking over this list, there seems to be more turnover than established players, even established BENCH players. Obviously, we haven't signed a true quality striker (although we might sign an essentially retired Drogba, which is fantastic, because this means Marotta is MLS-proven), so I'm not sure where exactly he can be excused from this market fact.
Perhaps it's just me, but his list of signings is not very impressive at all and I don't really see why folks here love him so much. But at least he didn't sign Jewseppi from Jersey, that is probably his best decision.
2010: Quagliarella, Matri, Krasic, Aquilani (the supposed best young player in the world according to Buffon), and Pepe. All either failures or essentially deep bench players. What did we say? Marotta is building a good base, this takes time.
2011: Pirlo, Vidal, Lichtsteiner, Vucinic, Giaccherini, Estigarribia, Elia. Some good, some bad, some ugly. Pirlo was already established and a no brainer, Vidal was great in Germany and wanted to come to Juventus a la Diego. The others were mediocre.
2012: Pogba, Asamoah, Giovinco, Lucio, Bendtner, Peluso. First two are very good, and I will give credit for the Pogba signing as he was highly touted, but the others are either easy singings or simply blah.
Looking over this list, there seems to be more turnover than established players, even established BENCH players. Obviously, we haven't signed a true quality striker (although we might sign an essentially retired Drogba, which is fantastic, because this means Marotta is MLS-proven), so I'm not sure where exactly he can be excused from this market fact.
Perhaps it's just me, but his list of signings is not very impressive at all and I don't really see why folks here love him so much. But at least he didn't sign Jewseppi from Jersey, that is probably his best decision.
I don't consider Bonucci all that great. I was wrong about Barzagli, but that's just one player.
Obviously the strike force you listed is not up to par, otherwise we wouldn't have to discuss them.
Despite the players you listed, the majority of the players signed are either not up to par or no longer at the club, which is a very strange predicament since Marotta has only been here for a few seasons. That cannot be considered a good track record in any realm of management whatsoever, even the hotel industry.
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Building a base of players is perfectly fine, but not when you have to offload them a year later.
Obviously the strike force you listed is not up to par, otherwise we wouldn't have to discuss them.
Despite the players you listed, the majority of the players signed are either not up to par or no longer at the club, which is a very strange predicament since Marotta has only been here for a few seasons. That cannot be considered a good track record in any realm of management whatsoever, even the hotel industry.
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Building a base of players is perfectly fine, but not when you have to offload them a year later.
excuse me ? quag was fantastic before injury, krasic started very good, and then del neri failed to get around teams tripplemarking him
Barzagli in januari ? Pepe his performances season after ?
Pirlo was NOT a no brainer, many tought he was finished.
Lichtsteiner mediocre ? what utter bullshit is this ? did you even watch the chelsea game, or so many others ?
Vucinic, our most important forward ?
this i can agree on, tho peluso does what he came for
Perhaps it's just me, but his list of signings is not very impressive at all and I don't really see why folks here love him so much. But at least he didn't sign Jewseppi from Jersey, that is probably his best decision.[/QUOTE]
team that beat the record points in a calenderyear, topped toughest CL group, without their coach on the sidelines :
buffon, bonucci, barzagli, chiellini, asamoah, lichtsteiner, pirlo, vidal, marchisio, vucinic, quagliarella
8 signings by marotta
Yeah, those obviously are all bench players
Barzagli in januari ? Pepe his performances season after ?
Pirlo was NOT a no brainer, many tought he was finished.
Lichtsteiner mediocre ? what utter bullshit is this ? did you even watch the chelsea game, or so many others ?
Vucinic, our most important forward ?
this i can agree on, tho peluso does what he came for
Perhaps it's just me, but his list of signings is not very impressive at all and I don't really see why folks here love him so much. But at least he didn't sign Jewseppi from Jersey, that is probably his best decision.[/QUOTE]
team that beat the record points in a calenderyear, topped toughest CL group, without their coach on the sidelines :
buffon, bonucci, barzagli, chiellini, asamoah, lichtsteiner, pirlo, vidal, marchisio, vucinic, quagliarella
8 signings by marotta
Yeah, those obviously are all bench players
I disagree about Bonucci, he is a great defender and as of now and I wouldn't trade him for any other CB (ok maybe only Thiago Silva). We arguably have the best defense in europe and a large part of that is thanks to Marotta.
Well, I would say it is up to par, considering our success so far. It may have trouble in the latter CL stages, but that remains to be seen.
I don't see what the problem is with that considering we have a pretty strong squad right now that looks like it can be together for quite a few years.
From players signed 2011-12 onwards (besides returned loans), only 3 players signed have left. Pazienza, Elia & Lucio. Our base isn't going anywhere. This just goes to show that the 2010-11 (beginning of 11-12) period was an anomaly in terms of players leaving, as now not many players will be leaving in the near future.
Well, I would say it is up to par, considering our success so far. It may have trouble in the latter CL stages, but that remains to be seen.
I don't see what the problem is with that considering we have a pretty strong squad right now that looks like it can be together for quite a few years.
From players signed 2011-12 onwards (besides returned loans), only 3 players signed have left. Pazienza, Elia & Lucio. Our base isn't going anywhere. This just goes to show that the 2010-11 (beginning of 11-12) period was an anomaly in terms of players leaving, as now not many players will be leaving in the near future.
Quag is now only a bench player as far as we are concerned. Krasic is obviously a goner, so his start doesn't really count. Pepe is, in my view, an overrated player on this forum and never should have been brought in.
Lichtsteiner is actually one of my favorite players on the side.
Both Quag and Vucinic are considered bench players as we would not be discussing the likes of Drogba and Llorente if they were suitable. Every single poster here knows we need better strikers, so that isn't argument, especially on this board of "give them time" optimism.
And again, the amount of turnover from recent signings is still far too high and needs to be addressed. Our investment prospectus does need some tweaking, which means signing younger and more risky talents, not players like Pepe and Giaccherini whom we already know will not provide us much return on our investment.
Lichtsteiner is actually one of my favorite players on the side.
Both Quag and Vucinic are considered bench players as we would not be discussing the likes of Drogba and Llorente if they were suitable. Every single poster here knows we need better strikers, so that isn't argument, especially on this board of "give them time" optimism.
And again, the amount of turnover from recent signings is still far too high and needs to be addressed. Our investment prospectus does need some tweaking, which means signing younger and more risky talents, not players like Pepe and Giaccherini whom we already know will not provide us much return on our investment.
But we still want to replace a lot of those players. Marotta loves the loan plus option to buy calls, which is fine, but he's still wasting time on players who eventually find themselves at another club. Time is money, so essentially this is a waste of money.
Just by judging some of these players before and after their Juve careers, I personally believe Conte deserves the credit for the success. Call me an ass or whatever, but it's completely obvious to me that we have a great manager on our hands that is making do with what we have, which needs to be far better. Barzagli was never this good with Palermo, and neither was Bonucci under anyone else. So the credit goes to Conte in that regard.
Hell, Barzagli failed in Germany.
Just by judging some of these players before and after their Juve careers, I personally believe Conte deserves the credit for the success. Call me an ass or whatever, but it's completely obvious to me that we have a great manager on our hands that is making do with what we have, which needs to be far better. Barzagli was never this good with Palermo, and neither was Bonucci under anyone else. So the credit goes to Conte in that regard.
Hell, Barzagli failed in Germany.
Yes andy, but you must look at the entire thing
quag, indeed is a bench player. But back then we couldnt get anything else, and he delivered back then.
Krasic was bought for del neri. he didnt manage to fix the marking on him. for conte, he didnt fit so had to be sold. its rather onfortunate.
Pepe, was a vital balance player in the 4-3-3, i think you underrate him a bit
Vucinic, i'm not quite sure. We would probably field him with drogba or Llorente. Its just stupid how much diffrence he can make.
but lets also not forget the notion that we had problems landing anything better due to financial restrictions.
Like right now, we must achieve break even, and this likely means there isnt really much money left for a player like jovetic/sanchez/suarez.
Vucinic+Llorente, will do so much for us
While the turnover indeed is high, you must consider the rise in value just about any of the signings he made, that is a frequent starter. i think once the building was done, and we switched more to talents like pogba, we have gotten some nice young prospects in the team.
quag, indeed is a bench player. But back then we couldnt get anything else, and he delivered back then.
Krasic was bought for del neri. he didnt manage to fix the marking on him. for conte, he didnt fit so had to be sold. its rather onfortunate.
Pepe, was a vital balance player in the 4-3-3, i think you underrate him a bit
Vucinic, i'm not quite sure. We would probably field him with drogba or Llorente. Its just stupid how much diffrence he can make.
but lets also not forget the notion that we had problems landing anything better due to financial restrictions.
Like right now, we must achieve break even, and this likely means there isnt really much money left for a player like jovetic/sanchez/suarez.
Vucinic+Llorente, will do so much for us
While the turnover indeed is high, you must consider the rise in value just about any of the signings he made, that is a frequent starter. i think once the building was done, and we switched more to talents like pogba, we have gotten some nice young prospects in the team.
I consider him a bench player because at least 50% of this forum wants him benched. When you have so much volatility in what fans prefer for a striking force, you know you need better, more consistent forwards. And I don't even mind Vucinic, he's better than Matri ever was.
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I am looking at the whole thing, that is my point. I'm looking at all the signings from the standpoint of squad classification. The "building a base" phase should be over by now, but apparently it is not considering the turnover in the squad and even management. I know it's not an exact science, but we need to be wiser with decisions on players we know will not provide us with much quality.
If you look at a club like Man United, their senior squad turnover has always been quite low. But this is because Turd Ferguson is a much more careful and talented player developer and football brain. This is what we should be striving to become, guiding young players along into the first team. It's the opposite of the 90's.
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I am looking at the whole thing, that is my point. I'm looking at all the signings from the standpoint of squad classification. The "building a base" phase should be over by now, but apparently it is not considering the turnover in the squad and even management. I know it's not an exact science, but we need to be wiser with decisions on players we know will not provide us with much quality.
If you look at a club like Man United, their senior squad turnover has always been quite low. But this is because Turd Ferguson is a much more careful and talented player developer and football brain. This is what we should be striving to become, guiding young players along into the first team. It's the opposite of the 90's.
Hindsight is always 20/20. To expect Marotta to make the right call everytime is ridiculous, considering even Moggi made bad transfers from time to time. Yes, he has made a few flop transfers, (Martinez, Elia, Motta) but look at our squad now and what it has achieved. For anyone to say the negatives outweight the positives of what Marotta has done... they must obviously be out of their mind.
Who will we replace? We really only need 2-3 players brought in, if that. I don't think anyone needs replacing, as one of our fowards could be moved to the bench.
Conte wasn't even around when Bonucci was signed. Bonucci wasn't good beforehand because he was a youth prospect and he has now turned into a great CB in only a couple of years. Just think of how much his long passing has improved.
But he still signed Barzagli, someone else might not have taken the gamble and he turned out to be one of the best CBs in Europe. Likewise with Pirlo, many thought he was past it and I'm sure many would not have taken the ~€3m/y gamble on him. These are not flukes either. I doubt Marotta would think Barzagli was going to be this good but for sure he was certain after enough evalution that he would be a solid defender here. And to sign that for only €300k is a steal.
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I didn't realise what Juventuz wants decides whether the players play or not. The fact is, he is NOT a bench player and is our most important foward.
Who will we replace? We really only need 2-3 players brought in, if that. I don't think anyone needs replacing, as one of our fowards could be moved to the bench.
Conte wasn't even around when Bonucci was signed. Bonucci wasn't good beforehand because he was a youth prospect and he has now turned into a great CB in only a couple of years. Just think of how much his long passing has improved.
But he still signed Barzagli, someone else might not have taken the gamble and he turned out to be one of the best CBs in Europe. Likewise with Pirlo, many thought he was past it and I'm sure many would not have taken the ~€3m/y gamble on him. These are not flukes either. I doubt Marotta would think Barzagli was going to be this good but for sure he was certain after enough evalution that he would be a solid defender here. And to sign that for only €300k is a steal.
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I didn't realise what Juventuz wants decides whether the players play or not. The fact is, he is NOT a bench player and is our most important foward.
I can understand people always want more for the team they support, but really, it does boggle the mind that one would still complain and say the negatives outweigh the positives (lol) at this point in our clubs history.
We still have a long road ahead of us and there still is obvious room for improvement in certain areas, but we are definitely on the right track in the grand scheme of things. There is clearly a good understanding between management and coach at the moment. Marotta has done a very good job for us not just on the field, but also financially too. He's made mistakes, but which SD doesn't? His good and useful signings easily outweigh his bad signings.
The signs for this clubs future are VERY promising. Our management and coach are all on the same page and that is the most important thing of all.
We still have a long road ahead of us and there still is obvious room for improvement in certain areas, but we are definitely on the right track in the grand scheme of things. There is clearly a good understanding between management and coach at the moment. Marotta has done a very good job for us not just on the field, but also financially too. He's made mistakes, but which SD doesn't? His good and useful signings easily outweigh his bad signings.
The signs for this clubs future are VERY promising. Our management and coach are all on the same page and that is the most important thing of all.