Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
SSs and CMs are found in abundance in Italy, this is why it is so easy to findsuch opportunity targets and this is why Marotta easily finds them.
But half of our roster already consisted of CMs and SSs, since calciopoli we are spending the biggest part of our transfer budget on the CMs and SSs.

This is imo a weakness and a proof of incompetence. It is not like Marotta puts the money spend for their salary and transfer fee from his pocket, it is not like he generated this ammount from sales and youngster contract deals.
He is allocating the ammounts we were suppossed to commit on other positions, on them, just because he is unable to find players for those positions and it is easy to sign those opportunity targets.

So this is why the credit for such signing holds little substance.
Overpay, or pay/offer what others cant, for an easily obtainable target, is not quite an achievement.
And without a very good coach, to compensate for this unbalance and take the maximum from players being played out of position, chances are that we would have ranked 7th again...[/QUOTE]


So you are basically saying that the likes of Vucinic, Vidal, Pirlo, Lichtsteiner, Asamoah, Barzagli, etc.....................really aren't any good, then. That is what you are trying to tell us.
No, not the CMs and SSs,as i said those are very easy to find, but most of the other players Marotta has brought were...meh.
And even the great ones lose efficiency if you only have only one kind of players and lack what you really need.
We had some striking weakness, since the Secco days, like the LB, LM, RM, RB and finisher.
Ever since Marotta arrived with us, he tried many options, like Motta, Pepe, Matri, Giacherini, MArtinej, Zeglier,Elia,Toni, Borriello, Bendter etc and most of them convinced like the Juve starter we needed,
bar the best transfer he has ever done, Licht, which was an outstanding transfer and ended the ItalJuve era!!

We gave him many excuses, not having money, being 7th away from Europe and titles, being bossed by the influent Milano based teams, being ordered by the board to favor Italian champions etc
But now, as we win, his job becomes easier. There are no more excuses left.
Even since we were desperately and openly admitted searhing for a finisher, he was been failing to deliver.
I dont understand why a Juventino, would favor Marotta's incompetence, over the needs of our beloved team.
If Marotta cant do anything better than Zeglier, Peluso, Borriello and Bendter, then why not find someone who can??
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
No, not the CMs and SSs,as i said those are very easy to find, but most of the other players Marotta has brought were...meh.
And even the great ones lose efficiency if you only have only one kind of players and lack what you really need.
We had some striking weakness, since the Secco days, like the LB, LM, RM, RB and finisher.
Ever since Marotta arrived with us, he tried many options, like Motta, Pepe, Matri, Giacherini, MArtinej, Zeglier,Elia,Toni, Borriello, Bendter etc and most of them convinced like the Juve starter we needed,
bar the best transfer he has ever done, Licht, which was an outstanding transfer and ended the ItalJuve era!!

We gave him many excuses, not having money, being 7th away from Europe and titles, being bossed by the influent Milano based teams, being ordered by the board to favor Italian champions etc
But now, as we win, his job becomes easier. There are no more excuses left.
Even since we were desperately and openly admitted searhing for a finisher, he was been failing to deliver.
I dont understand why a Juventino, would favor Marotta's incompetence, over the needs of our beloved team.
If Marotta cant do anything better than Zeglier, Peluso, Borriello and Bendter, then why not find someone who can??


Such as.................................................................go ahead, I'm waiting. And heaven help you if you mention the usual retreads such as Marino, Sabatini,and Prade.


And Licht is the best transfer he's ever done. Wow. Pirlo and Vidal say Hello
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
Hey, here's a question.


This team has had a historic 18 months of football.


If it all goes to holy hell these next 4 months, who gets the blame?
 

napoleonic

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2010
4,129
It's amazing sometimes when I read the "yeah buts, yeah buts" on this forum, but whenever I watch TV, or listen to Satellite radio, that whenever the name Juventus comes up, they marvel at what this club has accomplished in the past 2 1/2 seasons, and they bring up the fact that they have built this type of squad without a blank checkbook a la Man City, or PSG. This is still a work in progress. The best of this squad have yet to be seen. It's really startling when you see where this squad was at the end of the 2009-2010 season, and where they are now.
true, below PSG, shitty and co; but still more than madrid, united and bayern... and we're supposed to be marveled with that? don't make it so that we looked like some small poor club that achieved all this from a miracle.




Hey, uhmmm, when Juve were 2 points ahead of last year's pace in early december, and having topped one of the hardest groups in CL, who was the head coach during that time?
another stupid argument

many well managed companies in this world achieved better annually while the owner, ceo, a bunch of board members on vacation a whole year (an exaggeration, but you get my point); it's the result of a working system.

I said it before, it's the work from the entire coaching team.
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
true, below PSG, shitty and co; but still more than madrid, united and bayern... and we're supposed to be marveled with that? don't make it so that we looked like some small poor club that achieved all this from a miracle.









another stupid argument

many well managed companies in this world achieved better annually while the owner, ceo, a bunch of board members on vacation a whole year (an exaggeration, but you get my point); it's the result of a working system.

I said it before, it's the work from the entire coaching team.

Really. It's a stupid argument when people want to claim that Conte is the overwhelming reason why Juve have been so successful, yet they finished 2 points ahead of last year's pace and topped their CL group while he was suspended?


And in regard to your graph, please remind me when Real, United, and Bayern were demoted to the 2nd division, and had to clean up the mess of a totally incompetent sproting director? Please tell me when they had to do that. Also, Please tell me when those three teams had a whole bunch of their star players defect, including the 2006 Ballon D'or winner, might I add, in one single season, without the means to economically replace them.


You say that Juve is a well managed company. So.........................................who is an integral part of that management system?
 
May 22, 2007
37,256
true, below PSG, shitty and co; but still more than madrid, united and bayern... and we're supposed to be marveled with that? don't make it so that we looked like some small poor club that achieved all this from a miracle.

How much do Madrid, United and Bayern pay each year in salary? See if you have a graph for that.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Such as.................................................................go ahead, I'm waiting. And heaven help you if you mention the usual retreads such as Marino, Sabatini,and Prade.
And Licht is the best transfer he's ever done. Wow. Pirlo and Vidal say Hello
There may better player, but NOT better transfers!!
CMs can be found in abundance, but we already had 25mil CMs, what we could never land was a RB of Licht's quality, it took a whole more than a decade to find one!
(i never rated Zebina)
Considering the difficulty level and the needs of our team, as well as the outcome, i firmly believe that this is Marotta's best transfer!

Without that meaning that i dont rate the other two as better players!

For the same reason, i would rate as a better transfer the acquisition of Llorente now, than the acquisition of yet another CM this summer...

As for LBs, if there is a lack of Italian options, i dont see the reason why not making an exception, just for this place and only as long as there is no other Italian quality solution, with a foreigner...
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,789
There may better player, but NOT better transfers!!
CMs can be found in abundance, but we already had 25mil CMs, what we could never land was a RB of Licht's quality, it took a whole more than a decade to find one!
(i never rated Zebina)
Considering the difficulty level and the needs of our team, as well as the outcome, i firmly believe that this is Marotta's best transfer!

Without that meaning that i dont rate the other two as better players!

For the same reason, i would rate as a better transfer the acquisition of Llorente now, than the acquisition of yet another CM this summer...

You didn't answer my question, which quite honestly is not surprising.

Whom would you select as the DS of Juventus, since you are convinced that they can do better
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Hey, here's a question.


This team has had a historic 18 months of football.


If it all goes to holy hell these next 4 months, who gets the blame?
It depends on the reason.

If its personal performance, the players, team performance, the coach, lack of option due to faulty strategical decision (like accidentation of Barza after Chiellini and the dessolution of our defence, or our SSs failing to perform on the finisher role) the general director...
 

napoleonic

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2010
4,129
Really. It's a stupid argument when people want to claim that Conte is the overwhelming reason why Juve have been so successful, yet they finished 2 points ahead of last year's pace and topped their CL group while he was suspended?

You say that Juve is a well managed company. So.........................................who is an integral part of that management system?
because like in a company, some departments will be the more essential part than others.

coaching team in football team is quite the same thing as the marketing division in a company; it's the spearhead, the most important thing; while transfer department perhaps like the one who provided the office (I'm not very good at english, sorry, can't really explain it lol).

but of course, you can have world class office but your marketing team sucks, that company isn't going to do well, blablabla... unless you never heard anything about economy and business, you should've known that.

and why you keep mentioning conte banned? true, in football is quite an important thing, but these only matches ban; sorry but I agree with some pricks from opposition who complained that conte only banned from matches, it's true, that to destroy juve conte needed to be banned from training too, I'd add that they need to ban the entire coaching team for that.

and also like in a company, the head of marketing doesn't need to be present in all selling activities, doesn't he?

And in regard to your graph, please remind me when Real, United, and Bayern were demoted to the 2nd division, and had to clean up the mess of a totally incompetent sproting director? Please tell me when they had to do that. Also, Please tell me when those three teams had a whole bunch of their star players defect, including the 2006 Ballon D'or winner, might I add, in one single season, without the means to economically replace them.
irrelevant, we did ranked 2nd and 3rd after repromoted, with a better coach than ranieri (and more fair referees), we could've WON already at that time. ---> my point here, we ended 7th more because of incompetent coaching team than incompetent secco! at very least we should've ended 3rd with year 09- early 11 squad.
 

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