[GER] Bundesliga 2015/2016 (21 Viewers)

[bastos80]

We're playing against Mainz today. Expect the following line-up:

---------- Lewy --------------
Ribéry --------- Götze ------ Coman
-------- Thiago - Vidal ---------------
Alaba - Benatia - Kimmich - Rafinha
-------------- Neuer ------------------

Ulreich - Müller, Robben, Costa, Bernat, Rode, Tasci

 

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[zizinho]

We're playing against Mainz today. Expect the following line-up:

---------- Lewy --------------
Ribéry --------- Götze ------ Coman
-------- Thiago - Vidal ---------------
Alaba - Benatia - Kimmich - Rafinha
-------------- Neuer ------------------

Ulreich - Müller, Robben, Costa, Bernat, Rode, Tasci

is this the first time Gotze plays AM in a 4-2-3-1 since joining Bayern?

 

[bastos80]

is this the first time Gotze plays AM in a 4-2-3-1 since joining Bayern?

No, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[JuveJay]

Do Bayern have a CF other than Lewandowski?

 

[bastos80]

Do Bayern have a CF other than Lewandowski?

Müller and Götze can sort of play there, but Lewandowski is never injured anyways.

 

[zizinho]

No, wouldn't be the first time.

i never saw Pep play 4-2-3-1 while at Bayern as far as i remember. i saw Gotze play in a 4-1-4-1 and 3-6-1 or whatever the hell that formation is supposed to be where he fields players randomly and out of position

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Müller and Götze can sort of play there, but Lewandowski is never injured anyways.

Muller is fine there too, he actually does a good job, but i wouldnt want playing him out of position for a longer period if Lewandowski gets injured. if i was at Bayern id still get a true CF, some young one preferably.

 

[bastos80]

i never saw Pep play 4-2-3-1 while at Bayern as far as i remember. i saw Gotze play in a 4-1-4-1 and 3-6-1 or whatever the hell that formation is supposed to be where he fields players randomly and out of position

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Muller is fine there too, he actually does a good job, but i wouldnt want playing him out of position for a longer period if Lewandowski gets injured. if i was at Bayern id still get a true CF, some young one preferably.

It's hard to tell what formation Pep is exactly playing most of the time but Götze has played more games as an attacking mid than on the wing.
We have several players that can play numerous positions. Fielding players randomly out of position is just not true.

As for another CF, he'd just be on the bench all the time because Lewandowski basically plays every match so we might aswell spend our money elsewhere.

 

[zizinho]

It's hard to tell what formation Pep is exactly playing most of the time but Götze has played more games as an attacking mid than on the wing.
We have several players that can play numerous positions. Fielding players randomly out of position is just non-sense.

As for another CF, he'd just be on the bench all the time because Lewandowski basically plays every match so we might aswell spend our money elsewhere.

its not nonsense, moving Lahm to DM gotta be the biggest crap a coach did in recent years. also Alaba at CB. they were like the best fullbacks in the world under Heynckes.

Lewandowski plays all the time because there is no CF to replace him from time to time. some young CF that can also play on the wing (so he is also able to get minutes with Lewandowski on the pitch) is what id get. when everyone is healthy, there is not much your team needs anyway

 

[JuveJay]

I suppose the benefit of having a second team means on the occasion there is an injury crisis you can promote someone older than about 19 to the first team for a game or two.

 

[DAiDEViL]

its not nonsense, moving Lahm to DM gotta be the biggest crap a coach did in recent years. also Alaba at CB. they were like the best fullbacks in the world under Heynckes.

Lewandowski plays all the time because there is no CF to replace him from time to time. some young CF that can also play on the wing (so he is also able to get minutes with Lewandowski on the pitch) is what id get. when everyone is healthy, there is not much your team needs anyway

 

[Ocelot]

its not nonsense, moving Lahm to DM gotta be the biggest crap a coach did in recent years. also Alaba at CB. they were like the best fullbacks in the world under Heynckes.

Lewandowski plays all the time because there is no CF to replace him from time to time. some young CF that can also play on the wing (so he is also able to get minutes with Lewandowski on the pitch) is what id get. when everyone is healthy, there is not much your team needs anyway

But what if Müller & Götze at CF are much better than some random young guy?

Bayern knows what they're doing, unfortunately.

 

[bastos80]

I suppose the benefit of having a second team means on the occasion there is an injury crisis you can promote someone older than about 19 to the first team for a game or two.

That benefit only works when your second team's players are actually good enough to help your first team. I'd rather play with Müller in case of an injury.

its not nonsense, moving Lahm to DM gotta be the biggest crap a coach did in recent years. also Alaba at CB. they were like the best fullbacks in the world under Heynckes.

Lewandowski plays all the time because there is no CF to replace him from time to time. some young CF that can also play on the wing (so he is also able to get minutes with Lewandowski on the pitch) is what id get. when everyone is healthy, there is not much your team needs anyway

I suppose you'd actually have to know a bit more about our team to make that judgement.
Lahm was moved to midfield in 13/14 because we had a lot of injury problems in central mid. Schweinsteiger, Martínez, Thiago basically all had more or less bad injuries in that year. That was even more the case for Javi and Thiago the year after. Lahm getting older and losing his pace (it's quite shocking how much he has lost of it by now) and also not being the world class defender he was anymore, plus being the best suited player from the rest of the team there, it was the only logical decision. Now that we've actually have good options in midfield, Lahm is starting the game as a RB, supporting the midfield when we have the ball and defending the right wing when we don't. I guess you have heard of the fact that most teams systems differ when the possession of the ball changes.
As for Alaba, basically the same problem. Right now we have 3 injured center backs, 1 just came back (Benatia). At the start of the season, Badstuber was injured, Benatia too and Martínez just came back from a injury that completely destroyed his knee. Of course we had to be cautious. Left us with only Boateng as the reliable center back. Left us with Alaba as the player best suited for that job.
Again, when Martínez and Boateng where fit, Alaba played as a left back. Lahm and Alaba, two players, same story.
"Under Heynckes" is easy to say when the conditions were totally different.

Lewandowski plays all the time because he can. He's probably the fittest player I've ever seen. Guess that's the effect when your wife is a fitness freak and Karate fighter.
We're most likely going to get a new winger anyways. Heck, even Robben could play CF. Already did that against BVB in the cup final.

 

[zizinho]

But what if Müller & Götze at CF are much better than some random young guy?

Bayern knows what they're doing, unfortunately.

yeah obviously. all im saying is, in case of an injury of Lewandowski, id rather have a true CF there instead of moving Muller out of position. Gotze i would never play there. such a waste for him and the team wont be as deadly with a natural CF. that the guy could play other position(s) would mean he wouldnt depend on Lewandowski to get a cameo appereance here and there, but could be used together with him.

also, they obviously didnt knew what they were doing when they got Pep . and that 6 months too early, when instead of extending Heynckes contract after a historic season, or atleast finding a coach with the same philosophy, they got stuck with the one that transformed them into Barcelonas and Madrids trashing can

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That benefit only works when your second team's players are actually good enough to help your first team. I'd rather play with Müller in case of an injury.



I suppose you'd actually have to know a bit more about our team to make that judgement.
Lahm was moved to midfield in 13/14 because we had a lot of injury problems in central mid. Schweinsteiger, Martínez, Thiago basically all had more or less bad injuries in that year. That was even more the case for Javi and Thiago the year after. Lahm getting older and losing his pace (it's quite shocking how much he has lost of it by now) and also not being the world class defender he was anymore, plus being the best suited player from the rest of the team there, it was the only logical decision. Now that we've actually have good options in midfield, Lahm is starting the game as a RB, supporting the midfield when we have the ball and defending the right wing when we don't. I guess you have heard of the fact that most teams systems differ when the possession of the ball changes.
As for Alaba, basically the same problem. Right now we have 3 injured center backs, 1 just came back (Benatia). At the start of the season, Badstuber was injured, Benatia too and Martínez just came back from a injury that completely destroyed his knee. Of course we had to be cautious. Left us with only Boateng as the reliable center back. Left us with Alaba as the player best suited for that job.
Again, when Martínez and Boateng where fit, Alaba played as a left back. Lahm and Alaba, two players, same story.
"Under Heynckes" is easy to say when the conditions were totally different.

Lewandowski plays all the time because he can. He's probably the fittest player I've ever seen. Guess that's the effect when your wife is a fitness freak and Karate fighter.
We're most likely going to get a new winger anyways. Heck, even Robben could play CF. Already did that against BVB in the cup final.

-Lahm was moved to midfield in preseason. Pep in one of his 1st interviews basically said that he will try him out there. why ffs? because hes an idiot obviously.
-Alaba was turned into a CB when you had a lot more healthy options than you have right now. i saw CBs on the bench when was starting at CB. why was that again? oh yes, they got a cetain spanish guy that had to play fullback

 

[bastos80]

Müller doesn't have a position. We played with him in Lewy's position and with Götze in Müller's position relatively often and it worked out very well.

You know Heynckes retired, right? He would've done one more year if they didn't find a adequat succesor to him, which we did.
What's Heynckes' philosophy exactly? Counter attacking football, right?

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-Lahm was moved to midfield in preseason. Pep in one of his 1st interviews basically said that he will try him out there. why ffs? because hes an idiot obviously.
-Alaba was turned into a CB when you had a lot more healthy options than you have right now. i saw CBs on the bench when was starting at CB. why was that again? oh yes, they got a cetain spanish guy that had to play fullback

Yeah, he tried him out there, so ? That's what pre season is there for. He didn't start in midfield in competitive games until we had our injury problems. And even when he did play there, he was great. Tactical flexibility seems to be a bad thing for you...Talking about "Barca's and Madrid's trashing can". Isn't it ironic that Lahm played RB when we got beat 4-0?
Alaba started playing CB last season.
1) When Benatia came back from an injury he had when he was still at Roma and didn't get to full fitness.
2) When Dante was the Dante we know today
3) Badstuber just came back from a ~2 year long injury spell
4) And guess what, even Boateng needs a rest some day
Also, when we had other CB options Alaba usually played the left defender in a 3 at the back formation, the position that comes his desired CDM position the closest. But I guess because you play 3 at the back it always has to be 3 center backs
"Turned" into a CB is also quite funny. He didn't turn Alaba into anything. Alaba has always been the flexible beast he id. Pep's lucky he has a player like him that gives him so many tactical options.
That "spanish guy" deserved his starting spot last season because he was extremely consistent. But i guess it's better to be polemic and accuse Pep of prefering spaniards just for the sake of it.

 

[zizinho]

Müller doesn't have a position. We played with him in Lewy's position and with Götze in Müller's position relatively often and it worked out very well.

You know Heynckes retired, right? He would've done one more year if they didn't find a adequat succesor to him, which we did.
What's Heynckes' philosophy exactly? Counter attacking football, right?

it works if the team youre playing is much inferior to yours. try that vs us next game, lets see how it goes

he retired after yu got Pep. he would have stayed otherwise. for how long? i dont know, maybe a year, maybe more. but im sure he wouldnt get humiliated by Real at home.

 

[bastos80]

it works if the team youre playing is much inferior to yours. try that vs us next game, lets see how it goes

I'm sure it would work much better with a striker of a quality that low which makes him willing to sit on the bench behind iron-man himself.
Glad you have such good connections to Jupp Heynckes, knowing things that range far beyond what he has actually said to the media.

 

[LiquidPLP]

it works if the team youre playing is much inferior to yours. try that vs us next game, lets see how it goes

he retired after yu got Pep. he would have stayed otherwise. for how long? i dont know, maybe a year, maybe more. but im sure he wouldnt get humiliated by Real at home.

You always prefer Muller over some bench CF I guess. The German is a freak, you can deploy him as CM/AM/SS/CF or even as a winger and you always get something from him. Playing him as CF makes sense, the guy is clinical and moves very well in the box.

How I wish Berardi turned out to be our Muller they're somewhat similar but yeah for now it's a pipe dream.

 

[zizinho]

Yeah, he tried him out there, so ? That's what pre season is there for. He didn't start in midfield in competitive games until we had our injury problems. And even when he did play there, he was great. Tactical flexibility seems to be a bad thing for you...Talking about "Barca's and Madrid's trashing can". Isn't it ironic that Lahm played RB when we got beat 4-0?
Alaba started playing CB last season.
1) When Benatia came back from an injury he had when he was still at Roma and didn't get to full fitness.
2) When Dante was the Dante we know today
3) Badstuber just came back from a ~2 year long injury spell
4) And guess what, even Boateng needs a rest some day
Also, when we had other CB options Alaba usually played the left defender in a 3 at the back formation, the position that comes his desired CDM position the closest. But I guess because you play 3 at the back it always has to be 3 center backs
"Turned" into a CB is also quite funny. He didn't turn Alaba into anything. Alaba has always been the flexible beast he was. Pep's lucky he has a player like him that gives him so many tactical options.
That "spanish guy" deserved his starting spot last season because he was extremely consistent. But i guess it's better to be polemic and accuse Pep of prefering spaniards just for the sake of it.

Lahm started playing DM whithin the 1st few weeks of his 1st seasons. who was injured back then except for Martinez? Kroos, Schweinsteinger were still available... also, whos decision was it to not get proper CM backups and have Lahm as an option there instead. Martinez was injured early in the summer, there was plenty of time to do so.
im sure Alaba prefers playing CM, or taking all the set pieces or shooting whenever there is an opening. doesent mean he should do it. hes a WC LB, the best in the world actually, and he shouldnt be moved out of position to fit in an inferior player. Bernat as backup for Alaba is fine, but not as starter over him at his position this much

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I'm sure it would work much better with a striker of a quality that low which makes him willing to sit on the bench behind iron-man himself.
Glad you have such good connections to Jupp Heynckes, knowing things that range far beyond what he has actually said to the media.

a "young uprising striker (that can preferably play on the wing or other positions to be able to play with Lewandwoski too and not just instead of him 10-15 games a season)" - doesent mean hes a striker of quality that low that makes him want to sit on the bench. hed obviously get playing time, not as much as he would if he was a starter, but still good amount of minutes. Muller is good there as i said already, but i would prefer a real CF and keep Muller to play with him. i like him more when he has another striker to play with, rather than him being that lone striker. right now, when Lewandowki is out you have to move Muller at CF, which wont get you the best out of him. or play Gotze there which wont work against any half decent defensive team

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oh and me and Yupp are great friends actually. his wife and my father went to school together. i visit him very often and he tells me stuff like that. he also planned to have Pep his assistant for a season, teach him a thing or two about how he destroyed the team Pep himslef built, and then retire. but Pep ddint want it that way for some reason...

 

[bastos80]

Lahm played the first 6 competitive games as a right back. Thiago got injured after matchday 3. Lahm started playing in midfield then with Kroos and Schweinsteiger. When Thiago and Javi came back, Schweinsteiger got injured and Lahm was playing so good in midfield, he kept him there. Sadly Javi suffered from another injury and also was sick during the time of the semi-finals, he never really was fit, same as Schweini and Thiago. Lahm was the only consistently available player. About you asking why we didn't get a replacement for Martínez, I don't know, but he got injured 2 weeks before the window closed, not really "early". Probably was hard to find a replacement that did better than Rafinha/Lahm.
Again, Alaba wasn't moved out of position for Bernat, he was moved there because the circumstances forced him to.
I doubt you've been following Bayern as closely as I do. Looking at the team sheet doesn't always tell the truth. I'm not arrogating to know everything that happened during the last 3 years at Juve and why your coaches made each decision, so please don't do it either. Have a little respect for Guardiola. I'm not a huge fan of him myself but his decisions make sense when you take everything into consideration.

I doubt a "young uprising striker (that can preferably play on the wing or other positions to be able to play with Lewandwoski too and not just instead of him 10-15 games a season)" would do better than Müller who is basically just that, except the "uprising". Götze too.

 

[zizinho]

You always prefer Muller over some bench CF I guess. The German is a freak, you can deploy him as CM/AM/SS/CF or even as a winger and you always get something from him. Playing him as CF makes sense, the guy is clinical and moves very well in the box.

How I wish Berardi turned out to be our Muller they're somewhat similar but yeah for now it's a pipe dream.

Muller is a beast, i love him. but i prefer him with a CF rather than without one where he is supposed to be that CF

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Lahm played the first 6 competitive games as a right back. Thiago got injured after matchday 3. Lahm started playing in midfield then with Kroos and Schweinsteiger. When Thiago and Javi came back, Schweinsteiger got injured and Lahm was playing so good in midfield, he kept him there. Sadly Javi suffered from another injury and also was sick during the time of the semi-finals, he never really was fit, same as Schweini and Thiago. Lahm was the only consistently available player. About you asking why we didn't get a replacement for Martínez, I don't know, but he got injured 2 weeks before the window closed, not really "early". Probably was hard to find a replacement that did better than Rafinha/Lahm.
Again, Alaba wasn't moved out of position for Bernat, he was moved there because the circumstances forced him to.
I doubt you've been following Bayern as closely as I do. Looking at the team sheet doesn't always tell the truth. I'm not arrogating to know everything that happened during the last 3 years at Juve and why your coaches made each decision, so please don't do it either. Have a little respect for Guardiola. I'm not a huge fan of him myself but his decisions make sense when you take everything into consideration.

I doubt a "young uprising striker (that can preferably play on the wing or other positions to be able to play with Lewandwoski too and not just instead of him 10-15 games a season)" would do better than Müller who is basically just that, except the "uprising". Götze too.

Ok, lets stop here then.

but as you see that i said in the 1st post i mentioned this, thats what i would do. i prefer having a "real CF" rather than fake nines like Gotze or losing that phisique with moving Muller to CF and adding someone like Gotze instead that CF. even as a sub when Lewandowski is not in form or the game is not going well to change something, it would be good to have one . but oh well...