Gastón Ramírez-AM/LW-Bologna (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cheesio
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Melo is a liability on the field, allways ready to take his next red card.
Not so intelligent eighter, unable to read the game, average passing ability
good at marking,destroying, terrible positioning tho.
he indeed was our best midfielder. thats not neccecarely a good thing, we didnt had a midfield.
loaned out now, good, he can prove himself.
Not so intelligent eighter, unable to read the game, average passing ability
good at marking,destroying, terrible positioning tho.
he indeed was our best midfielder. thats not neccecarely a good thing, we didnt had a midfield.
loaned out now, good, he can prove himself.
What a clever little monkey you are. Congrats, you've produced a silly epigram. You don't actually have anything to say about football though, do you?
I love how you whine about a certain style of argument, and then turn around and use the exact same tactic in another discussion... over and over again.
Well done. How thoughtful.
Melo had 1 red card last year, and 6 yellows. In 36 games, including his sub performance (Coppa, Europa, etc.). Those are hardly excessive numbers for a player in his role.
He may make some mistakes, but all players do. Especially in dysfunctional teams. His positioning may not be outstanding, but it's not like he can't read the game at all. Who cares if he's not a brilliant passer of the ball, that's not his job. His primary job is to protect the defense and to blow shit up. Guess what? He's very effective at that. This team has room for a player with those characteristics.
The fact that you admit that he was our best midfielder, and yet you're still happy to see him go out on loan... well, I don't understand that. That makes no sense to me, especially how poorly this team has performed in the last 2 seasons. We need all the help we can get.
If he does 'prove himself', not that he really needs to, he's gone anyway. Again, this makes little sense. He's not going to want to come back to this team, regardless of how well he plays. If we were going to jettison the player, he should have been sold outright.
Maybe it's because I grew up playing sports like Hockey and American Football, and I like to crack some fucking heads, but I see physicality as a key component of any contact sport - which football/soccer is. It's important to have some intimidating players in the lineup, because they get into the heads of their opponents; they make opponents rush their maneuvers, frustrate them, throw a bit of fear into them, make them leery of waltzing down the middle. They make their presence felt.
Our team lost a ton of steel when Melo and Momo left (although I was all for Momo going, given the injuries and the decline in his play). I'm all for technical football, absolutely, but you can still incorporate a few players who can throw a little bit of fear into the opposition. Melo had above average technical ability for a player in his role, and I thought he was a good asset. Anyway, that's enough time wasted on this subject.
I love how you whine about a certain style of argument, and then turn around and use the exact same tactic in another discussion... over and over again.
Well done. How thoughtful.
Melo had 1 red card last year, and 6 yellows. In 36 games, including his sub performance (Coppa, Europa, etc.). Those are hardly excessive numbers for a player in his role.
He may make some mistakes, but all players do. Especially in dysfunctional teams. His positioning may not be outstanding, but it's not like he can't read the game at all. Who cares if he's not a brilliant passer of the ball, that's not his job. His primary job is to protect the defense and to blow shit up. Guess what? He's very effective at that. This team has room for a player with those characteristics.
The fact that you admit that he was our best midfielder, and yet you're still happy to see him go out on loan... well, I don't understand that. That makes no sense to me, especially how poorly this team has performed in the last 2 seasons. We need all the help we can get.
If he does 'prove himself', not that he really needs to, he's gone anyway. Again, this makes little sense. He's not going to want to come back to this team, regardless of how well he plays. If we were going to jettison the player, he should have been sold outright.
Maybe it's because I grew up playing sports like Hockey and American Football, and I like to crack some fucking heads, but I see physicality as a key component of any contact sport - which football/soccer is. It's important to have some intimidating players in the lineup, because they get into the heads of their opponents; they make opponents rush their maneuvers, frustrate them, throw a bit of fear into them, make them leery of waltzing down the middle. They make their presence felt.
Our team lost a ton of steel when Melo and Momo left (although I was all for Momo going, given the injuries and the decline in his play). I'm all for technical football, absolutely, but you can still incorporate a few players who can throw a little bit of fear into the opposition. Melo had above average technical ability for a player in his role, and I thought he was a good asset. Anyway, that's enough time wasted on this subject.
Well there's a few Melo discussions already. I commented elsewhere.
It's pretty simple though... He didn't have the complete confidence of management and that's that. You think they have to keep players just because fans are in the lounge fapping over them.
As a player, he wasn't a committed DM. Sure he had the ability, but too often out of position, too often trying to dribble 3 players for no-reason... he was unstable and i'm not talking about the cards/fouls. Del Neri had to mummy him ffs. That **** doesn't bring serenity to a team. Of course he looks great when we're under-seige and he can look like the big dog busting heads... so what.
And these are just external observations.
Last week Conte talked about his senior players and how important they are in transmitting his ideas to the team. Obviously he didn't see Melo as a positive.
As for the business side, that's a different issue.
It's pretty simple though... He didn't have the complete confidence of management and that's that. You think they have to keep players just because fans are in the lounge fapping over them.
As a player, he wasn't a committed DM. Sure he had the ability, but too often out of position, too often trying to dribble 3 players for no-reason... he was unstable and i'm not talking about the cards/fouls. Del Neri had to mummy him ffs. That **** doesn't bring serenity to a team. Of course he looks great when we're under-seige and he can look like the big dog busting heads... so what.
And these are just external observations.
Last week Conte talked about his senior players and how important they are in transmitting his ideas to the team. Obviously he didn't see Melo as a positive.
As for the business side, that's a different issue.
Alright, I guess I have a little more time for this argument. 
Our management has continually lost confidence is useful players - over and over again. It's become a painful trend for the fans, and, for my money, the rot at this club has run much deeper than the players when one looks at the total picture. In most occasions where people question the players' attitudes, there is often a logical reason why everything isn't copacetic. That reason has often been our management's lack of vision, and the lack of continuity; this has been a terribly unstable, disorganized environment, and too often players are told to expect one thing,and it seems like something different occurs.
Our management has been very proud, and they have allowed some of that pride to occasionally cloud their judgment in player transactions. That part about pride is just my opinion obviously, and I won't go further into that right now.
The reason why Melo would try to dribble 3 players (rarely, but he did), was because we had a bunch of stiffs operating around him. They didn't consistently show for the ball, and allow him to make nice short passes, which he does very well. Or he'd get a shitty pass from one of our terrible fullbacks (or Chiello, or another mid), and have to try to maneuver past another player, and another because there was no time, and often nobody open to receive a pass. Options have been slim. The movement on our team has been terrible for YEARS.
Delneri had a good relationship with the player. He helped restore his confidence after a DISASTROUS season in which Melo was terrible, and got shredded by the fan base; a lot of the criticism he received was well deserved. That said, one can find quite a few examples, in quite a few sports, of players - many of championship caliber - who need a little extra loving from their coach. It happens all the time. Guess what? That's part of player management, and it's a fundamental part of coaching. Helping restore Melo's confidence was one of the best things Delneri did in his job at Juventus, not that management cared to build on one of the few positives from last season. Bottom line, coaches have to know what buttons to push in order to get players to perform. Let's hope like hell that Conte pushes some buttons.
If Melo's attitude was totally unacceptable, but he still has quality, it's silly to loan him to a Turkish club that's having financial issues (as far as I understand) and open up the possibility of completely spoiling the investment. Liverpool and Alberto Aquilani anyone? He hadn't even really been playing very well for Liverpool before we loaned him. (Edit - this is not a great example, because Aquilani was also so injury prone).
Melo's not a senior player, really - at least I don't consider him as such. He was there for two years, and played under 3 different coaches, in 4 or 5 different formations. Naturally when you have players like Alex, Pirlo, and Buffon, experienced champions of the highest order, they're going to be VERY good at transmitting his ideas. I'm extremely confident that those are the guys leading this process. They're beyond ultra-competent in that capacity, they have tons of experience, and when those guys speak, you can bet your ass the others listen. To a lesser extent, there's also Chiellini to help the defense; he's not a leader of the aforementioned caliber, but he's a leader nonetheless.
Football is a business; one can never lose sight of that. How much money have we wasted with knee jerk sales, constant upheaval in our management, and the like? I can't separate the two in this instance, because the worst part about all of this is the uncertainty of the loan. If we had some decent cash in hand from Melo's sale, we could put it to good use right now - because we still need significant upgrades. Third place isn't just going to be handed to us, and we desperately need to restore that CL cash flow.
Our management has continually lost confidence is useful players - over and over again. It's become a painful trend for the fans, and, for my money, the rot at this club has run much deeper than the players when one looks at the total picture. In most occasions where people question the players' attitudes, there is often a logical reason why everything isn't copacetic. That reason has often been our management's lack of vision, and the lack of continuity; this has been a terribly unstable, disorganized environment, and too often players are told to expect one thing,and it seems like something different occurs.
Our management has been very proud, and they have allowed some of that pride to occasionally cloud their judgment in player transactions. That part about pride is just my opinion obviously, and I won't go further into that right now.
The reason why Melo would try to dribble 3 players (rarely, but he did), was because we had a bunch of stiffs operating around him. They didn't consistently show for the ball, and allow him to make nice short passes, which he does very well. Or he'd get a shitty pass from one of our terrible fullbacks (or Chiello, or another mid), and have to try to maneuver past another player, and another because there was no time, and often nobody open to receive a pass. Options have been slim. The movement on our team has been terrible for YEARS.
Delneri had a good relationship with the player. He helped restore his confidence after a DISASTROUS season in which Melo was terrible, and got shredded by the fan base; a lot of the criticism he received was well deserved. That said, one can find quite a few examples, in quite a few sports, of players - many of championship caliber - who need a little extra loving from their coach. It happens all the time. Guess what? That's part of player management, and it's a fundamental part of coaching. Helping restore Melo's confidence was one of the best things Delneri did in his job at Juventus, not that management cared to build on one of the few positives from last season. Bottom line, coaches have to know what buttons to push in order to get players to perform. Let's hope like hell that Conte pushes some buttons.
If Melo's attitude was totally unacceptable, but he still has quality, it's silly to loan him to a Turkish club that's having financial issues (as far as I understand) and open up the possibility of completely spoiling the investment. Liverpool and Alberto Aquilani anyone? He hadn't even really been playing very well for Liverpool before we loaned him. (Edit - this is not a great example, because Aquilani was also so injury prone).
Melo's not a senior player, really - at least I don't consider him as such. He was there for two years, and played under 3 different coaches, in 4 or 5 different formations. Naturally when you have players like Alex, Pirlo, and Buffon, experienced champions of the highest order, they're going to be VERY good at transmitting his ideas. I'm extremely confident that those are the guys leading this process. They're beyond ultra-competent in that capacity, they have tons of experience, and when those guys speak, you can bet your ass the others listen. To a lesser extent, there's also Chiellini to help the defense; he's not a leader of the aforementioned caliber, but he's a leader nonetheless.
Football is a business; one can never lose sight of that. How much money have we wasted with knee jerk sales, constant upheaval in our management, and the like? I can't separate the two in this instance, because the worst part about all of this is the uncertainty of the loan. If we had some decent cash in hand from Melo's sale, we could put it to good use right now - because we still need significant upgrades. Third place isn't just going to be handed to us, and we desperately need to restore that CL cash flow.
He is good at destroying, and i wouldnt have sold him.
thing is, he has a poor intelligence and positioning, no leadership.
we never had the midfield last year, even with melo, because he is bad in buildup play
at brazil, where he is surrounded by top quality technique, its not a problem, they need a destroyer like that
but for conte's systhem, you need more intelligence and skill in the middel, even the destroyer
thing is, he has a poor intelligence and positioning, no leadership.
we never had the midfield last year, even with melo, because he is bad in buildup play
at brazil, where he is surrounded by top quality technique, its not a problem, they need a destroyer like that
but for conte's systhem, you need more intelligence and skill in the middel, even the destroyer
Yeah, I apologized about the off topic earlier, but then got a little carried away with the discussion. Should have walked away from it.
Still, it's not like we're getting Ramirez anyway, and it's not like I cluttered up an active thread. We're all over 'loaning' the great Giaccherini.
I used no tactic there, Rollie. I thought it was a witty post and liked it. So shut it.
The 'tactic', Hustini, is telling people who support a player that many condemn, that they're simply on a bandwagon, or in this case, they're in a cult - just like everybody does to you with a player like Marchisio. People often do this without engaging in a reasonable discussion about specific scenarios. Like saying "Marchisio is a ghost", out of hand. It's flippant and can be annoying for those who are trying to discuss the player, and his attributes.
I see you cry all day about the way Claudio is treated. I wouldn't have commented on that cult remark, but it came directly after mine, and I thought you were taking a shot at me - which I obviously didn't like. Btw, I'll say whatever the hell I want to, it wasn't vulgar, I was merely pointing out the fact that I thought you were being a hypocrite.
Still, it's not like we're getting Ramirez anyway, and it's not like I cluttered up an active thread. We're all over 'loaning' the great Giaccherini.
I used no tactic there, Rollie. I thought it was a witty post and liked it. So shut it.
I see you cry all day about the way Claudio is treated. I wouldn't have commented on that cult remark, but it came directly after mine, and I thought you were taking a shot at me - which I obviously didn't like. Btw, I'll say whatever the hell I want to, it wasn't vulgar, I was merely pointing out the fact that I thought you were being a hypocrite.
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