Formula One 2013 (19 Viewers)

Ragazza

Calciopoli Director
Jul 22, 2013
5,060
massafelipe
From 2014 i will no longer be driving for Ferrari. I would like to thank the team for all the victories and incredible moments experienced together. Thank you also to my wife and all of my family, to my fans and all my Sponsors. From each one of you I have always received a great support! Right now I want to push as hard as possible with Ferrari for the remaining 7 races. For next year, I want to find a team that can give me a competitive car to win many more races and challenge for the Championship which remains my greatest objective! Thank you all. Felipe



Even though he hasn't been that great for us the past few seasons, I still thank him for all the years he spent at Ferrari. Best of luck to him in the future.

Now bring on Kimi :)
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
F1....


If the current trend continue's, the "1" is gonna represent both the #cillinders and displacement of it.

And give it 2 years and they'll cancel turbo's again.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
I was born in a decade, where Group C was the topdog, and formula 1 nearly as interesting.

Those were the days...

Every selfrespecting manufactor had a car in Group C, a raceclass nearly without limits, apart from "no fan cars" and "not over 4.5 bar turbo (wtf)
Seeing Sauber C9's brutally accelerate to 400km/h on a bumby le sarthe, on those tires...

And formula one, 1200hp in a car with less downforce then monika lewinski. A time when a driver needed to be brave, and the car didnt matter as much like today.
Most of all a time with Senna


And what do we got now ? Oh soon a V6 1.6liter turbo, that sounds PATHETIC. Cars have TO MUCH downforce, and far to low power, making it a race of constructers, where the drivers dont nearly matter like they used to.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,035
I was born in a decade, where Group C was the topdog, and formula 1 nearly as interesting.

Those were the days...

Every selfrespecting manufactor had a car in Group C, a raceclass nearly without limits, apart from "no fan cars" and "not over 4.5 bar turbo (wtf)
Seeing Sauber C9's brutally accelerate to 400km/h on a bumby le sarthe, on those tires...

And formula one, 1200hp in a car with less downforce then monika lewinski. A time when a driver needed to be brave, and the car didnt matter as much like today.
Most of all a time with Senna


And what do we got now ? Oh soon a V6 1.6liter turbo, that sounds PATHETIC. Cars have TO MUCH downforce, and far to low power, making it a race of constructers, where the drivers dont nearly matter like they used to.
this is the most retarded argument i've heard. keeps praising the senna era and he died racing :sergio:

cars nowadays are better and would beat all the past ones even with a fraction of the power. it's called progress, look it up.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
this is the most retarded argument i've heard. keeps praising the senna era and he died racing :sergio:

cars nowadays are better and would beat all the past ones even with a fraction of the power. it's called progress, look it up.
You dont know much about senna i take.
Watch the top gear tribute, it gives an excellent perspective on exactly how he was so damn good.



As for the cars, eighter your logical fallacy is strawman, or you actually didnt understood it.
I'll try explain :

In the 80ties, Group C cars had the highest downforce ever seen in racing. They had nearly unrestricted engines. Just needed to last 24h
Formula 1 was extreme in a diffrent way, since the cars had the disadvantage of open top and wheels, but only needed to last ~90minutes in a race.

Back then, Group C was much faster thanks to ground tunnel effect, wich gave them the massive downforce they needed to "reliably" boost up engines to 400km/h
Formula one had nearly no downforce in comparison, yet put simularly big engines in the cars.


THE biggest issue of that time was not the engine. In fact, the fastest formula 1 car in a straight line ever build, the 2004 BAR Honda, has a simular power to weight ratio then the 89'-91' group C cars who managed 400km/h on worse road (le sarthe main straight original 6 kilometer section)

It was downforce, and grip.

Downforce wasent a problem for group C. They had ground tunnel effect. They could brake from high 300's speed to 0 in astonishing times.
Their BIG problem was suspension, tires, constant downforce.

You see, ground effects are better the faster you go. Just like the tires and brakes of a modern F1 are better at certain speeds, its why they take diffrent racing lines to go faster around a corner compared to any other motorspord.

Suspension however, was pretty bad and cars lost quite a bit of power in corners. The tires were pretty bad and slowed cornering down, where the constant downforce would have partially solved this.

Formula ones were even worse, as they had all those issues, no cover over the tire, and nearly no ground effects.

This is why you see those 80ties/early 90ties 1k HP F1's "dance" around, as they constantly lost traction.


Since 1991, engines were more restricted by the year, but massive progress with constant downforce, suspension and tires were made.
Even with the restrictions on those , innovation kept beating restriction untill 2004.

The 2004 bar honda is the fastest formula 1 in a straight line ever build.
The 2004 ferrari is the fastest car around the track ever build

Ever since, F1 were slower.


Current day, tires have massive grip, suspension is rocksolid, and the downforce is immense with hardly any ground effects.

Is their engine beter?

The fastest F1 ever made, was the 2004 Bar honda.
The fastest group C racer was the Sauber C9 (the peugeot doesnt count)

The Bar Honda, on salt flats, reached a simular top speed as the Sauber C9, with simular power to weight ratio.

Thing is, the Sauber did that on a bumpy 6 km le sarthre straight
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,035
the current cars are putting down incredibly impressive times even with all the limitations. they can't even refuel anymore and look how easily they dealt with it. Formula 1 isn't just about going fast. Car companies invest in it in order to research and develop new technologies. like you said, incredible suspensions. with them, you don't need as much power to go around the circuit. if it was about just going the fastest, they would make it about that. but it's not. there's a good reasons limitations are set.
 

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,499
To much down force has killed F1, cars behind can not overtake because the car in front is giving off dirty air due to the way it flows around the car in front it disrupts the chasing cars downforce and tires. That is not racing imo and F1 need to change that.
 

ZoSo

TSUUUUUUU
Jul 11, 2011
41,646
The best Formula 1s were the V10s in the 2000s

- - - Updated - - -

omg that sound wtffffffffffffffffff :sergio: :howler:



:inter:

:cry:

back to this pls

 

ZoSo

TSUUUUUUU
Jul 11, 2011
41,646
I was born in a decade, where Group C was the topdog, and formula 1 nearly as interesting.

Those were the days...

Every selfrespecting manufactor had a car in Group C, a raceclass nearly without limits, apart from "no fan cars" and "not over 4.5 bar turbo (wtf)
Seeing Sauber C9's brutally accelerate to 400km/h on a bumby le sarthe, on those tires...

And formula one, 1200hp in a car with less downforce then monika lewinski. A time when a driver needed to be brave, and the car didnt matter as much like today.
Most of all a time with Senna


And what do we got now ? Oh soon a V6 1.6liter turbo, that sounds PATHETIC. Cars have TO MUCH downforce, and far to low power, making it a race of constructers, where the drivers dont nearly matter like they used to.
coughjimclarkcough
coughschumachercough

etc
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
the current cars are putting down incredibly impressive times even with all the limitations. they can't even refuel anymore and look how easily they dealt with it. Formula 1 isn't just about going fast. Car companies invest in it in order to research and develop new technologies. like you said, incredible suspensions. with them, you don't need as much power to go around the circuit. if it was about just going the fastest, they would make it about that. but it's not. there's a good reasons limitations are set.
See, what you say, is exactly what changed.

In the 80ties, Group C was only about making a car that lasted 24h and did as many laps as possible in that time
Formula 1, was just the fastest possible car you can make that is open top, open wheels, and lasts a 90 minute race

It was all about speed.


Nowadays, its not about the speed anymore. Like you said, its about R&D.
Wich is why sadly the 1.6l V6 turbo makes a ton of sense, since petrol engines should move to smaller cilinders but turbocharged.



For me its a sad change, as the incredibly competitive Group C, 80/90 Formula 1 and Brit GP was so damn good to watch.
The only good "limitation" in my book were the massively improved safety measures in the car, making drivers do a crash like Senna but escape with minor bruises

- - - Updated - - -

coughjimclarkcough
coughschumachercough

etc
Wel, thats a double edge sword.

One one side, Ferrari was absolute shit before schumacher, and had been for quite a while now. They trew a shitload more cash against it, wich is not fair competition itself.
Schumacher however, had a massive contribution that dwarfs other racers. Like Senna, he had an excellent feeling for the grip, and how the car should respond to it.
But much better then any driver ever did, he managed to tune his settings, and directing the way the r&d team were looking in such way, that him combined with Brown, managed to build a car that was SO much better then the others.

But tbh, it wasent quite the competitive "oh look we got 6 cars going for the win" that Group C used to be :(
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Have you heard the sound clip that i think BMW released ?


The sound was pathetic tbh.


Kinetics and turbo boosts, could give it some spectacle. But i doubt the boost pressure will be significant. (is it known ?)
 

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