Felipe Melo (100 Viewers)
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Redundant as in we are getting no where in arguing this ...
No, they are not competing for a spot. As other have said Melo is a DM, Marchisio is a CM. Although they may seem the same to you they are to totally different positions. Busquets does not compete with Xavi. There wages play no role in what position they play..
You can't see "Albeit in different roles" then continue to slaughter away at Marchisio. Different roles = different tasks. You know this. I know this. Even Del Neri knows this. And I agree it's hard to be objective in regard to there impacts. And no I did not compare goals to yellow cards. And I did use stats in a proper way. To show that marchisio isn't as invisible as he seems.
By whom? I try to be subjective with players. I rate Marchisio as a fairly decent player who had potential. Melo as a great DM , not world class though. Vidal can replace him..
I never lambasted Aquilani, but for the amount of time he played CM he damn near matched Marchisio playing LM . What does this show me? Either one was good or the other was preferred to by the coach. Once again Marchisio played as a CM a lot less than Aqua-man. Unfair to compare the man that played in his natural position to the one who had to get accustomed to a new position.
Like I stated..passing the ball horizontally will do that. I bet pazienza had a nice passing rate. But so does xavi..does that mean pazienza = xavi? Going forward Marchisio keeps the ball better. Saying this from personal experience don't have the stats to back it
And the same for Del Piero..Ibra..Eto'o...Iniesta..Messi
shall I go on?
My bad
No, he switched play to krasic, then krasic took the ball down and usually passed to aqua man or ran at his defender. never did I see him give krasic a ball to run unto. Ironically, it was Sissoko that gave krasic the best pass of the season imo (against lazio)
I play the sport. From my experience (I play CM). When the team is in possession it's quite easy to get space to look up and switch to the opposite Fullback/Winger since everything is ball side. Switching flank..is not the same as going from defense to attack. Want to see going from Defense to attack go look at Xabi Alonso
but to each his own
Where are the people who want the wingers that can defend?
Melo should be able to go forward, I know plenty of DM's who can and have previously listed them.
Better than standing around? no? And no I didn't spout any of that "Spirit" shit. Just stated that Marchisio puts in his share of defensive work..
We'll never know. I'd say Melo did his job admirably in most cases and provided a very much felt defensive contribution. In my opinion, not having a class (true) left winger held us back a lot more, and as such, if Marchisio hadn't been aimlessly taking up space on the field, we could have earned a lot more points. Can't really hate him for that, though, as management screwed the transfer policy that summer, and its more their failing than his (Marchisio's).
Your confusing him with pepe...
And yes we do need a true LW.
Debatable.
Damn, right yes.
What level do you think Melo is on? We weren't 2nd come winter because of him. Know that. Marchisio isn't the same type of player so why expect the same impact?
No comment.
No, they are not competing for a spot. As other have said Melo is a DM, Marchisio is a CM. Although they may seem the same to you they are to totally different positions. Busquets does not compete with Xavi. There wages play no role in what position they play..
You can't see "Albeit in different roles" then continue to slaughter away at Marchisio. Different roles = different tasks. You know this. I know this. Even Del Neri knows this. And I agree it's hard to be objective in regard to there impacts. And no I did not compare goals to yellow cards. And I did use stats in a proper way. To show that marchisio isn't as invisible as he seems.
By whom? I try to be subjective with players. I rate Marchisio as a fairly decent player who had potential. Melo as a great DM , not world class though. Vidal can replace him..
I never lambasted Aquilani, but for the amount of time he played CM he damn near matched Marchisio playing LM . What does this show me? Either one was good or the other was preferred to by the coach. Once again Marchisio played as a CM a lot less than Aqua-man. Unfair to compare the man that played in his natural position to the one who had to get accustomed to a new position.
Like I stated..passing the ball horizontally will do that. I bet pazienza had a nice passing rate. But so does xavi..does that mean pazienza = xavi? Going forward Marchisio keeps the ball better. Saying this from personal experience don't have the stats to back it
And the same for Del Piero..Ibra..Eto'o...Iniesta..Messi
shall I go on?
My bad
No, he switched play to krasic, then krasic took the ball down and usually passed to aqua man or ran at his defender. never did I see him give krasic a ball to run unto. Ironically, it was Sissoko that gave krasic the best pass of the season imo (against lazio)
I play the sport. From my experience (I play CM). When the team is in possession it's quite easy to get space to look up and switch to the opposite Fullback/Winger since everything is ball side. Switching flank..is not the same as going from defense to attack. Want to see going from Defense to attack go look at Xabi Alonso
but to each his ownWhere are the people who want the wingers that can defend?
Melo should be able to go forward, I know plenty of DM's who can and have previously listed them.Better than standing around? no? And no I didn't spout any of that "Spirit" shit. Just stated that Marchisio puts in his share of defensive work..
We'll never know. I'd say Melo did his job admirably in most cases and provided a very much felt defensive contribution. In my opinion, not having a class (true) left winger held us back a lot more, and as such, if Marchisio hadn't been aimlessly taking up space on the field, we could have earned a lot more points. Can't really hate him for that, though, as management screwed the transfer policy that summer, and its more their failing than his (Marchisio's).
Your confusing him with pepe...
And yes we do need a true LW.
Debatable.
Damn, right yes.
What level do you think Melo is on? We weren't 2nd come winter because of him. Know that. Marchisio isn't the same type of player so why expect the same impact?
No comment.
This sort of discussion/back and forth is part and parcel of virtually every forum on the net. Hardly redundant, man.
4-4-2.
2 central positions.
They very much were in competition for a spot, regardless of the specific role they were there to play... in that same spot.
Saying otherwise is like saying Marchisio didn't later become competition to Pepe for the spot in the wider role because one is a CM while one is a natural winger.
Continuing on, if it weren't for Lanzafame, Martinez, and to a lesser extent, Pepe, basically playing themselves out of contention, there would have been no place for Marchisio to migrate. Oh, on top of that, Del Neri being more cowardly than Ranieri and thinking he needed to "protect" the flank against the likes of Bari and any other shit team we faced after the initial Inter experiment.
This can't really be argued.
Wages, contracts, all that, combined with the area of the field they play, make them very comparable.
Of course the comparison is viable, even with a caveat of "albeit in different roles", I've already explained why. I don't feel that I "slaughtered Marchisio" whilst making my point; which still stands by the way.
Yes, we're in agreement!
I didn't single you out as doing as much, and in the original post, I think I clarified what I was saying pretty carefully.
You initially said Marchisio is underrated. Point blank. I responded in kind, saying it's equally possible that one could call him overrated. I thought this was pretty straightforward?
By the way, I think you mean "objective."
Anyway, judging by what you've just written above, it seems we're on the same page about how we rate Marchisio and Melo. It might come across as if I really dislike the guy (the former), but I don't. If you look back at my more serious posts in this same thread (the search function seems to be limited to posts made after the server switch, though), you'll find that I've maintained he's a pretty good player, with good technical ability in most respects, that just happens to have serious problems with respect to consistency at a high level, as well as imposing himself upon a game. I don't rate him as a "leader" at all, however, and most of my "anti-Marchisio"-tinged posts are usually in response to his throng of squealing cheerleaders blabbering incessantly.
Melo can be replaced, sure. Is it in our best interests to rid ourselves of a well-functioning part of the team, though? I don't think so. We've got bigger problems to address.
By that same token, can Marchisio be replaced? Absolutely. We'd probably be able to make a tidy profit, too, without a loss in quality.
Never said you specifically did so.
Let's actually get serious for a minute here. This "Marchisio couldn't express himself properly because he was out wide" business has been out of control for quite some time now as the sure-fire, go-to excuse for the player. Did he really play that out of position? Was he shoehorned into the role of a Krasic or Pepe there? No. In essence, he was doing bloody well the same thing he'd be doing in the center... just slightly removed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you trying to insinuate that Melo's pass rating is disguised by sideways and back passes?
That's like, I can't even stress this enough, Marchisio's absolute specialty. I mean, hah, that's his thing. What he's damn well known for.
Exactly my point. Hence your original point about a stray Melo backheel irked me.
Indeed!
Well, we're at an impasse here. I don't have the interest to peruse youtube for a Melo passing compilation or whatever, but I've seen him quite frequently send diagonal balls towards the opposition corner that Krasic has chased down.
Yes, Sissoko's one "Hollywood pass" of his career.
I didn't say switching flanks was the same as switching from defense to attack. I wasn't sure in what sense you were using the term, hence I asked, and then followed up with the more important one (defense into attack). The fact remains, in this aspect, the supposedly offensively-inferior Melo is better than Marchisio. Not just a little better. Much better. The stats are there for you to read, if you haven't done so yet.
but to each his own
Yes.
I don't get your comment about wingers...
Again, the thing is, Melo absolutely, positvely does contribute to forward play.
Is the implication here that Melo stands around? Regardless, my point was that I don't care for people praising one guy (Marchisio) for "his effort" just for a lack of other praiseworthy, more tangible qualities. It's pathetic.
Confusing Melo? Marchisio? I don't follow you here...
I thought what I said was pretty clear?
That is, Melo's contribution was more of a plus than Marchisio's (lack thereof) in terms of positioning on the table. Swapping Melo out wouldn't have earned us much ground, I don't think, but swapping Marchisio out with a class winger? We definitely would have been higher than seventh spot.
I invite you to start a poll, in that case. Sissoko's been dreadful for two years now. I mean, okay, you could debate that in theory, but only in the sense that you could debate anything in the world. Seems an exercise in futility, in my opinion.
Yes.
Again, I thought that part was fairly clear?
I rate Melo as a very good DM that has some very nice technical ability to boot.
The first half of the season, the Melo/Aquilani partnership was really clicking, and I reckon, was a noteworthy factor in why we were doing pretty well. Up until the break.
People talk up Marchisio "in the center", right? So, he should be able to step in, right?
Feel free to comment!
Anyway, that's my last "big response". It takes way too long, and formatting it all in one go in a one inch high space is a real pain.
I've said my piece.
Agree, disagree, whatever, laf...
4-4-2.
2 central positions.
They very much were in competition for a spot, regardless of the specific role they were there to play... in that same spot.
Saying otherwise is like saying Marchisio didn't later become competition to Pepe for the spot in the wider role because one is a CM while one is a natural winger.
Continuing on, if it weren't for Lanzafame, Martinez, and to a lesser extent, Pepe, basically playing themselves out of contention, there would have been no place for Marchisio to migrate. Oh, on top of that, Del Neri being more cowardly than Ranieri and thinking he needed to "protect" the flank against the likes of Bari and any other shit team we faced after the initial Inter experiment.
This can't really be argued.
Wages, contracts, all that, combined with the area of the field they play, make them very comparable.
Of course the comparison is viable, even with a caveat of "albeit in different roles", I've already explained why. I don't feel that I "slaughtered Marchisio" whilst making my point; which still stands by the way.
Yes, we're in agreement!
I didn't single you out as doing as much, and in the original post, I think I clarified what I was saying pretty carefully.
You initially said Marchisio is underrated. Point blank. I responded in kind, saying it's equally possible that one could call him overrated. I thought this was pretty straightforward?
By the way, I think you mean "objective."
Anyway, judging by what you've just written above, it seems we're on the same page about how we rate Marchisio and Melo. It might come across as if I really dislike the guy (the former), but I don't. If you look back at my more serious posts in this same thread (the search function seems to be limited to posts made after the server switch, though), you'll find that I've maintained he's a pretty good player, with good technical ability in most respects, that just happens to have serious problems with respect to consistency at a high level, as well as imposing himself upon a game. I don't rate him as a "leader" at all, however, and most of my "anti-Marchisio"-tinged posts are usually in response to his throng of squealing cheerleaders blabbering incessantly.
Melo can be replaced, sure. Is it in our best interests to rid ourselves of a well-functioning part of the team, though? I don't think so. We've got bigger problems to address.
By that same token, can Marchisio be replaced? Absolutely. We'd probably be able to make a tidy profit, too, without a loss in quality.
Never said you specifically did so.
Let's actually get serious for a minute here. This "Marchisio couldn't express himself properly because he was out wide" business has been out of control for quite some time now as the sure-fire, go-to excuse for the player. Did he really play that out of position? Was he shoehorned into the role of a Krasic or Pepe there? No. In essence, he was doing bloody well the same thing he'd be doing in the center... just slightly removed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Are you trying to insinuate that Melo's pass rating is disguised by sideways and back passes?
That's like, I can't even stress this enough, Marchisio's absolute specialty. I mean, hah, that's his thing. What he's damn well known for.
Exactly my point. Hence your original point about a stray Melo backheel irked me.
Indeed!
Well, we're at an impasse here. I don't have the interest to peruse youtube for a Melo passing compilation or whatever, but I've seen him quite frequently send diagonal balls towards the opposition corner that Krasic has chased down.
Yes, Sissoko's one "Hollywood pass" of his career.
I didn't say switching flanks was the same as switching from defense to attack. I wasn't sure in what sense you were using the term, hence I asked, and then followed up with the more important one (defense into attack). The fact remains, in this aspect, the supposedly offensively-inferior Melo is better than Marchisio. Not just a little better. Much better. The stats are there for you to read, if you haven't done so yet.
but to each his own
Where are the people who want the wingers that can defend? Melo should be able to go forward, I know plenty of DM's who can and have previously listed them.
Melo should be able to go forward, I know plenty of DM's who can and have previously listed them.
Again, the thing is, Melo absolutely, positvely does contribute to forward play.
Is the implication here that Melo stands around? Regardless, my point was that I don't care for people praising one guy (Marchisio) for "his effort" just for a lack of other praiseworthy, more tangible qualities. It's pathetic.
Confusing Melo? Marchisio? I don't follow you here...
I thought what I said was pretty clear?
That is, Melo's contribution was more of a plus than Marchisio's (lack thereof) in terms of positioning on the table. Swapping Melo out wouldn't have earned us much ground, I don't think, but swapping Marchisio out with a class winger? We definitely would have been higher than seventh spot.
I invite you to start a poll, in that case. Sissoko's been dreadful for two years now. I mean, okay, you could debate that in theory, but only in the sense that you could debate anything in the world. Seems an exercise in futility, in my opinion.
Yes.
Again, I thought that part was fairly clear?
I rate Melo as a very good DM that has some very nice technical ability to boot.
The first half of the season, the Melo/Aquilani partnership was really clicking, and I reckon, was a noteworthy factor in why we were doing pretty well. Up until the break.
People talk up Marchisio "in the center", right? So, he should be able to step in, right?
Feel free to comment!
Anyway, that's my last "big response". It takes way too long, and formatting it all in one go in a one inch high space is a real pain.
I've said my piece.
Agree, disagree, whatever, laf...
Good discussion lads.
This forum would be a much better place if we got more thought provoking convo's like that. Great read.
This forum would be a much better place if we got more thought provoking convo's like that. Great read.
I'm sure Iaquinta is very useful for himself in all the time he gets off for inury doing this: 
(I know it was a mistake)
Iaq was terrible for Lippi in WC 2010...only useful in 2006.
(I know it was a mistake)Iaq was terrible for Lippi in WC 2010...only useful in 2006.
