Federico Chiesa (48 Viewers)

[Knowah]

The more I read this thread the more I dont understand some of you...

You make a big fuss over a very simple situation:

Chiesa wants more money to extend, Juve dont want to pay him more money since they dont believe he has earn it and the coach its not convinced he can work in his system enogh to pay him the money he wants.

THATS IT!!!

Chiesa probably thougth that he would get more offers from EPL clubs and now he finds himself in the "reality" that no clubs are willing to pay him what he demands... reality check!

Now if Chiesa comes and say "Listen, I thought better about the situation and I want to renew accepting a reduction in salary" probably the club and the coach could be convinced to give him the oportunity to "prove himself"... but thats only if he accepts the pay cut... if not... then he must find a team that wants him or stay in the stands for a year.

Its a VERY simple situation, I dont get why some of you dont get it or maybe is that you dont want to understand it.

This was so clear from the moment we entered the summer transfer window and there wasn't a renewal for him.

Chiesa thought the entire world thought of him as a star. He saw Juventus' renewal offer and scoffed saying "I'm a star" so he took a risk and went to Euros without an extension (its a risk because if his blows out his acl or something at the Euros on the last year of his deal he's not SNIFFING 3m wages on his next contract) and risking it all at the Euros didn't work. He looked ineffective. Chiesa's risk failed. He came back to camp and Juventus wasn't talking to him. We already made our point clear. Chiesa won't get a raise with how he's performed recently.

Chiesa pushed for a transfer elsewhere, thinking people still think he's a star and he'll get offers from everywhere. And... it didn't materialize. Nobody thinks he's a superstar. Nobody wants to pay him superstar wages.

This is where we are now.

Chiesa realizing he's not perceived as a superstar and won't get superstar wages. And Juventus not willing to even talk to somebody who fucked with them by not extending or renewing before Euros and ignored what Juventus sees as a fair offer given his recent performances.

I don't see how Juventus has done anything wrong here (they've done a lot wrong this offseason, don't get me wrong). Chiesa has delayed and overrated himself and has caused this mess. He's on the transfer market because he wants superstar pay. He's been frozen out (not completely like other players, leading me to believe he can come to terms with Juventus again) and it's his fault.

 

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[DanielSz]

This was so clear from the moment we entered the summer transfer window and there wasn't a renewal for him.

Chiesa thought the entire world thought of him as a star. He saw Juventus' renewal offer and scoffed saying "I'm a star" so he took a risk and went to Euros without an extension (its a risk because if his blows out his acl or something at the Euros on the last year of his deal he's not SNIFFING 3m wages on his next contract) and risking it all at the Euros didn't work. He looked ineffective. Chiesa's risk failed. He came back to camp and Juventus wasn't talking to him. We already made our point clear. Chiesa won't get a raise with how he's performed recently.

Chiesa pushed for a transfer elsewhere, thinking people still think he's a star and he'll get offers from everywhere. And... it didn't materialize. Nobody thinks he's a superstar. Nobody wants to pay him superstar wages.

This is where we are now.

Chiesa realizing he's not perceived as a superstar and won't get superstar wages. And Juventus not willing to even talk to somebody who fucked with them by not extending or renewing before Euros and ignored what Juventus sees as a fair offer given his recent performances.

I don't see how Juventus has done anything wrong here (they've done a lot wrong this offseason, don't get me wrong). Chiesa has delayed and overrated himself and has caused this mess. He's on the transfer market because he wants superstar pay. He's been frozen out (not completely like other players, leading me to believe he can come to terms with Juventus again) and it's his fault.

he got a dose of reality lol. The question if you’re management is do you re-engage with him and his agent? Because he has now established he doesn’t prioritize Juve and will bounce the moment a so called bigger club comes for him. I go back and forth on whether they should, because Juve could still use him. He’s not like the other deadwood on the roster. But I also want players that want to be here.

- - - Updated - - -

Chiesa affair: Enrico, Federico's father, has taken charge of the situation because he believes that a season out of the squad for his son would be counterproductive, since the player needs to find continuity after his injury.
Giuntoli had problems with Ramadani in the past due to the Koulibaly situation. Enrico Chiesa also thinks that there were some errors of judgment by the agents in the relationship with the Juve club.
At the moment Chiesa continues to be on the market but the player either finds a solution that satisfies everyone or a mediation to mend the rift with Juventus cannot be ruled out.
Another possible scenario is a change of agent by Chiesa.

 

[Espectro]

he got a dose of reality lol. The question if you’re management is do you re-engage with him and his agent? Because he has now established he doesn’t prioritize Juve and will bounce the moment a so called bigger club comes for him. I go back and forth on whether they should, because Juve could still use him. He’s not like the other deadwood on the roster. But I also want players that want to be here.

If Chiesa (of his father in at his behalf) comes to say "Ok, I was wrong" AND acepts a pay cut, then I can see the management and the coach giving him the chance to prove himself.

 

[Knowah]

he got a dose of reality lol. The question if you’re management is do you re-engage with him and his agent? Because he has now established he doesn’t prioritize Juve and will bounce the moment a so called bigger club comes for him. I go back and forth on whether they should, because Juve could still use him. He’s not like the other deadwood on the roster. But I also want players that want to be here.

- - - Updated - - -

Chiesa affair: Enrico, Federico's father, has taken charge of the situation because he believes that a season out of the squad for his son would be counterproductive, since the player needs to find continuity after his injury.
Giuntoli had problems with Ramadani in the past due to the Koulibaly situation. Enrico Chiesa also thinks that there were some errors of judgment by the agents in the relationship with the Juve club.
At the moment Chiesa continues to be on the market but the player either finds a solution that satisfies everyone or a mediation to mend the rift with Juventus cannot be ruled out.
Another possible scenario is a change of agent by Chiesa.

Hell yes you negotiate with him. Chiesa in Motta's system I think is the dynamic winger we need. I think the cold shoulder Juventus and Motta have given is NOT about him not fitting the system at all. I think its the disrespect he (or his agent, more on that in a moment) have shown basically since March. Juventus tabled a fair offer for what Chiesa has been recently.

But that's the crux. I think the initial Juventus offer was probably barely talked about between the two parties.

This is the agent's fault probably more so than Chiesa. They saw "10m wages" in their daydreams and what their agent cut would be and its easy to risk another person's future. I hope the rumors Chiesa's father is stepping up to intercede are true. This is what Chiesa needs.

He can still play for that star pay. But he won't play for it this year or next year or the year after probably. I think a 2 year extension makes a lot of sense for both parties. Sign for two more years and show us, show everybody that you're back to being the dynamic player you were before the injury. And you'll still be under 30 at that point and could get one more deal.

- - - Updated - - -

Compared to A LOT of transfers and stuff going on this summer, I think Juventus and Giuntoli have actually played this exactly as they should.

And exactly opposite of Paratici. If Paratici was negotiating with the Chiesa reps, we would have announcement of an extension for five years, 10m net wages.

And in three years if Chiesa is struggling or NOT the superstar, fans here and everywhere would be complaining about this extension signed in summer of 2024.

 

[Lion]

imo chiesa can be smart about this.

extend for another year/two with similar salary but insert a fairly low release clause like 40-45m. that way after a year of good performances he can force a transfer. his agent could make it a sweeter deal by getting a percentage of the transfer fee back like a bonus to chiesa. so then he can recoup on "missed" increase in salary by getting a big cheque back.

if it works out and he is the star he wants to be then he won't need to leave to get salary he wants. i am sure juve will give him a big fat cheque if he can prove injuries and bad form is behind him

 

[Knowah]

imo chiesa can be smart about this.

extend for another year/two with similar salary but insert a fairly low release clause like 40-45m. that way after a year of good performances he can force a transfer. his agent could make it a sweeter deal by getting a percentage of the transfer fee back like a bonus to chiesa. so then he can recoup on "missed" increase in salary by getting a big cheque back.

if it works out and he is the star he wants to be then he won't need to leave to get salary he wants. i am sure juve will give him a big fat cheque if he can prove injuries and bad form is behind him

I think this is the right play for Chiesa.

Does his agent? Does the agent matter anymore if Chiesa's father is stepping in?

 

[Espectro]

imo chiesa can be smart about this.

extend for another year/two with similar salary but insert a fairly low release clause like 40-45m. that way after a year of good performances he can force a transfer. his agent could make it a sweeter deal by getting a percentage of the transfer fee back like a bonus to chiesa. so then he can recoup on "missed" increase in salary by getting a big cheque back.

if it works out and he is the star he wants to be then he won't need to leave to get salary he wants. i am sure juve will give him a big fat cheque if he can prove injuries and bad form is behind him

Why would Juventus accept to pay him a similar salary AND insert a release clause of 40M? that only benefits Chiesa

 

[DanielSz]

I think offering him the same salary he was making would be a favor. Hasn’t done anything to earn it and was plotting his exit. Pay cut or get out.

 

[Knowah]

Why would Juventus accept to pay him a similar salary AND insert a release clause of 40M? that only benefits Chiesa

Because we can't sell him for 40m now. How is that not a release clause over his current market value?

If 40m was his market value, he'd be sold already for market value. It's not his market because the market hasn't purchased him at that price. The market hasn't purchased him at 25m and the rumor is we dropped his price to 15m.

 

[Espectro]

Because we can't sell him for 40m now. How is that not a release clause over his current market value?

If 40m was his market value, he'd be sold already for market value. It's not his market because the market hasn't purchased him at that price. The market hasn't purchased him at 25m and the rumor is we dropped his price to 15m.

What if he doesnt have a good year, then we are at the same problem once again...that kind of deal only benefits Chiesa.

If you want to put a release clause then the salary Chiesa must accept has to be significantly slow to what he erans now.

 

[Lion]

i was just suggesting similar salary.

there are other options like performance based bonuses based on goals + assists for example. or even higher bonsues than usual for finishing top 2 in league and advancements in CL

i think these would be easier to negotiate than a fixed salary and juventus more likely to agree to give him for example 2m bonus fee for scoring 15 goals minumum and another 1m for club finishing top two in league vs giving him 3m flat increase in salary.

but from perspective of chiesa it's amore risky move because what if motta sucks (likely) and club struggles while he performing well? then he is missing on earning money.

 

[Espectro]

i was just suggesting similar salary.

there are other options like performance based bonuses based on goals + assists for example. or even higher bonsues than usual for finishing top 2 in league and advancements in CL

i think these would be easier to negotiate than a fixed salary and juventus more likely to agree to give him for example 2m bonus fee for scoring 15 goals minumum and another 1m for club finishing top two in league vs giving him 3m flat increase in salary.

but from perspective of chiesa it's amore risky move because what if motta sucks (likely) and club struggles while he performing well? then he is missing on earning money.

Now this has makes more sense, I think the club could agree to give him a litle lower fixed salary and pay him good bonus based on his permormance.

 

[Knowah]

What if he doesnt have a good year, then we are at the same problem once again...that kind of deal only benefits Chiesa.

If you want to put a release clause then the salary Chiesa must accept has to be significantly slow to what he erans now.

I mean, if he has a bad year, extending him for 2m wages puts us in a bad position. All we can do is hedge bets.

- Right now, whether he is good or bad, we lose him.
- By extending him with a release clause, if he's good we can get more for him than now (where the market isn't interested in him) and if he's bad we have him at the same wages and two more years (in the hypothetical example where we have the current year and a two year extension) and we can move on from him for 12-15m wages without doing it last minute in a summer window.

I don't see how it doesn't benefit us. The only way it hurts us in your example is if he's absolutely abysmal and in that case any amount we extend him for is a negative for us. If he's the same Chiesa last year, a fall from where we hoped he was and he was before, then its a good extension. We keep the wages the same and have control for two more years.

Where's the lack of benefit for us except in a worst case example where Chiesa is so bad that just extending him was the mistake?

 

[Espectro]

I mean, if he has a bad year, extending him for 2m wages puts us in a bad position. All we can do is hedge bets.

- Right now, whether he is good or bad, we lose him.
- By extending him with a release clause, if he's good we can get more for him than now (where the market isn't interested in him) and if he's bad we have him at the same wages and two more years (in the hypothetical example where we have the current year and a two year extension) and we can move on from him for 12-15m wages without doing it last minute in a summer window.

I don't see how it doesn't benefit us. The only way it hurts us in your example is if he's absolutely abysmal and in that case any amount we extend him for is a negative for us. If he's the same Chiesa last year, a fall from where we hoped he was and he was before, then its a good extension. We keep the wages the same and have control for two more years.

Where's the lack of benefit for us except in a worst case example where Chiesa is so bad that just extending him was the mistake?

The problem in the scenario is "similar wages" .. if by "similar" you mean lower then ok, I could see it happening, but to me Juventus has to stay firm in the posision of not pauing him more or equal to his current wages.

Th solution proposse by @Lion about a lower fixed salary and performance bonus makes more sense, that way of Chiesa wants more money he has to perform and in the worst case scenario (he doesnt perform) the club dont have to pay high wages.

 

[RKid1]

i was just suggesting similar salary.

there are other options like performance based bonuses based on goals + assists for example. or even higher bonsues than usual for finishing top 2 in league and advancements in CL

i think these would be easier to negotiate than a fixed salary and juventus more likely to agree to give him for example 2m bonus fee for scoring 15 goals minumum and another 1m for club finishing top two in league vs giving him 3m flat increase in salary.

but from perspective of chiesa it's amore risky move because what if motta sucks (likely) and club struggles while he performing well? then he is missing on earning money.

I hate the idea of goal/assist related bonuses. Every time he would shoot when he could have passed, or overreacts when a player blows a chance at an assist, the fans will get on him and call him selfish and only caring about stats/money. It would just be a toxic situation. Hell, Ronaldo didnt have those bonuses and was an elite goal scorer, and Juve fans got on him for being too selfish. Imagine the reactions the first or 2nd time Chiesa takes a shot from outside the box and puts it 10 rows into the stands.

At the end of the day, it's clear Juve dont want Chiesa (unless potentially at a lower wage --- we dont even know if they'd want him if he did that). Chiesa needs to decide what is important to him and make a decision soon, whether it's extend, leave, or stay & dare Juve to put him in the stands all season. Be a fucking adult and professional.

Reportedly having "dad" get involved has turned this circus into something that is just embarrassing and makes him look like an amateur.

 

[Lion]

this was just suggestion.

i don't agree he would be selfish but i understand why you would think so. all attacking players have bonuses for scoring or assisting though.

 

[Espectro]

 

[Siamak]

Can anyone let me know How many days are left until the end of Mercato? i guess less than ten days away and even if we sell him we won’t have enough time to replace him, LW/RW spots should have been top priority from the start of Mercato and more essential than other positions. we'll have both of the league and the cl ahead and too late to risk selling him now. At this point keeping him better than loosing him for a low price and put the team in technical critic.

 

[Osman]

Can anyone let me know How many time is left until the end of Mercato? i guess less than ten days away and even if we sell him we won’t have enough time to replace him,

Not much time left with sales that are more tricky to find suitors for. But what made you think less then 10 days? The panic of tuz warped your reality?


Today is 7th August. The window closes 30th August. For sales think it can go on until 2nd or 4th September, depending on overseas leagues you selling to who have longer windows.

 

[Lion]

Not much time left with sales that are more tricky to find suitors for. But what made you think less then 10 days? The panic of tuz warped your reality?


Today is 7th August. The window closes 30th August. For sales think it can go on until 2nd or 4th September, depending on overseas leagues you selling to who have longer windows.

ok but again you guys are ignoring pre season integration

also another thing being ignored is u want to now replace chiesa with a winger on august 27th from porto but now porto says no because it doesn't have time to find a replacement.

there is a domino effect to take into consideration, which you throaters are not.