Farsopoli(Calciopoli) (19 Viewers)

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PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
16,931
serfaraaz said:
L'Opinione: Sentenze a rischio annullamento?

Secondo Alberto Antinori le sentenze della Caf siano state fatte non in perfetta sintonia con la Costituzione Italiana e con lo Statuto della Figc. Cosa che, secondo lui, potrebbe portare il Tar ad annullarle.


Il processo penale è regolato dal principio del contraddittorio nella formazione della prova. La legge ne assicura la ragionevole durata. Così recita, tra l’altro, l’art.111 della nostra Costituzione.

Ciò che di questo processo salta agli occhi è soprattutto

a) la fretta (imposta da scadenze europee) che non ha consentito l’organizzazione della difesa;
b) la non ammissione di prove e testi a difesa;
c) le conclusioni dell’accusa formulate prima di aver ascoltato gli imputati.

Il diritto alla difesa viene palesemente violato non solo secondo l’art.111 della Costituzione, ma anche secondo l’art. 30, comma 2 dello Statuto della Figc che recita: “le norme relative all’ordinamento della Giustizia sportiva devono garantire il diritto di difesa”. Sempre secondo lo stesso Statuto, l’art.37 comma 5 e 6, le liste testimoniali della difesa possono essere ridotte ma non soppresse e il Procuratore Federale (comma 9)deve formulare le proprie richieste al termine del dibattimento.

Ma, direte voi, che difesa vuoi organizzare e che prove e testimoni vuoi produrre, tanto era tutto già scritto! Forse, un po’ di ragione ce l’avete. I nostri inquisitori non hanno fatto una bella figura quando la Gazzetta dello Sport ha pubblicato pari pari le sentenze ben prima che queste fossero di pubblico dominio, rispondendo così alla domanda di Ruperto che credeva di fare una battuta spiritosa: “Dite che le sentenze sono già scritte. Diteci anche dove, così le andiamo a leggere pure noi!”. Guido Rossi aveva garantito trasparenza assoluta, ma Ruperto (checché ne dica l’interessato e nonostante i 110 libri da lui curati) non è neanche riuscito a garantire la riservatezza almeno fino alla sentenza. E così viene anche sconfessato il presidente della Juventus che, in tv, aveva imputato il ritardo nella lettura della sentenza all’intervento di qualcuno sulla commissione giudicante.

Ora, visti i punti a), b) e c), non si vede come il Tar possa confermare quanto disposto dalla Giustizia sportiva. Di conseguenza, non solo queste sentenze saranno annullate, ma ci sarà da fronteggiare le inevitabili azioni di megarisarcimento danni a carico della Figc. Per questo è auspicabile che il Processo d’Appello della Giustizia sportiva prenda in considerazione quanto non ammesso dal primo grado, riducendo drasticamente i danni per le società coinvolte cosicché, chissà , si potrebbe anche arrivare ad un compromesso.

Nel frattempo l’Avv. Giuseppe Benedetto, Giudice Federale per il settore giovanile preannuncia a Guido Rossi di voler lasciare il suo incarico: "Il metodo usato nel e col processo mi induce a urlare: il diritto è un’altra cosa! Trovatevi un altro giudice
I know how it feels when it comes to reading these, so heres the google translation for the illiterate :D

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The Opinion: Sentences to risk cancellation? According to Alberto Antinori the sentences of the Caf have been made not in perfect tuning with the Italian Constitution and the Charter of the Figc. What that, second it, could carry the Tar to cancel them. The criminal trial è regulated from the principle of the conflicting one in the formation of the test. The law of it assures the reasonable duration. Così recites, between l’altro, l’art.111 of our Constitution. Cià ² that of this process it jumps above all to the è eyes to) the haste (it sets up from European expirations) that l’organizzazione of the defense has not concurred; b) not the admission of tests and witnesses to defense; c) the conclusions dell’accusa formulated before having listened charge to it to you. The right to the defense comes evidently violato not only second l’art.111 of the Constitution, but also second l’art. 30, codicil 2 of the Charter of the Figc that it recites: “le relative norms all’ordinamento of the sport Justice must guarantee the right of difesa†. Always second the same Charter, l’art.37 codicil 5 and 6, the lists testifies them of the defense can be reduced but presses and the Federal Proxy (codicil 9) does not have to formulate the own demands to the term of the debate. But, you will say, that defended you want to organize and that tests and witnesses you want to produce, a lot all già you were written! Perhaps, a po’ of reason ce l’avete. Our inquisitori have not made a beautiful figure when the Gazette of the Sport has published equal par the sentences very before that these were of public dominion, answering così to the question of Ruperto that it believed to make one battered spiritosa: “Dite that the sentences già are written. You say to us also where, così we to them go to also read! †. Guido Rossi had guaranteed absolute transparency, but Ruperto (checché says some l’interessato and although the 110 books from he cure) successful è to you neanche not to at least guarantee the confidentiality until the sentence. And così it comes also sconfessato the president of the Juventus that, in tv, had chargeed the delay in the reading of the sentence all’intervento of someone on the judging commission. Hour, approvals the points to), b) and c), do not look at as the Tar can confirm how much deciding from the sport Justice. Consequently, not only these sentences will be cancelled, but us sarà to face the unavoidable actions of megarisarcimento you damn to cargo of the Figc. For this favorable è that the Process d’Appello of the sport Justice drastically takes in consideration how much admitted from the first degree, not reducing the been involved damages for the società cosicché, chissÃ, could also be arrived to a compromise. Meantime l’Avv. Giuseppe Benedict, Federal Judge for the juvenile field preannounces to Guido Rossi of wanting to leave its assignment: “The method used in and with the process induces to me urlare: the straight è un’altra what! You find an other judge .

Interesting stuff, BTW whose Alberto Altinori?
 

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Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
Today's appeal has only re-inforced my belief that there is something serious fishy going on behind the scene.

I find it utterly disgusting that Milan could find themselves playing in Champions League next season.
Although I hate nothing more than a conspiracy theory, there are too many material to ignore about it. Obviously the fact that UEFA extended their deadline for the Italian registration is a clear evidence that the court pretty much decided upon re-instating Milan to the Champions League in the first place, and my guess is that this was the intention all the long from the very first initial verdict.
By the time we know it, I bet you Galliani will be re-instated as some kind of board member for Milan, and Berlusconi will say how he belives in that bold faggot and what good guy he is.

The issue is not about whether we are wrong or not. But whether we have given the fair trial in the court. As I have mentioned in the prior posts the initial sentences did not correspond to the responsibility and the roles played by the various parties leading upto the whole scandal with the fans and shareholder's bearing unjustified proportion of penalties.
And this whole thing about Juve cheated more so that Juve should get more severe penalty is absolute bullshit.
If anyone wants to come up with that argument then they better prepare on what basis they measured severity of guilty and more importantly on what they basis does the sentences correspond to the severity of the guilt as judged by the court.
I am adamant that such basis does not exist and the sentenced were handed in a ad hoc way. And if one cannot come up with the standards used, then I cannot accept this trial to be fair in anyway what so ever
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
16,931
Jun-hide said:
Today's appeal has only re-inforced my belief that there is something serious fishy going on behind the scene.

I find it utterly disgusting that Milan could find themselves playing in Champions League next season.
Although I hate nothing more than a conspiracy theory, there are too many material to ignore about it. Obviously the fact that UEFA extended their deadline for the Italian registration is a clear evidence that the court pretty much decided upon re-instating Milan to the Champions League in the first place, and my guess is that this was the intention all the long from the very first initial verdict.
By the time we know it, I bet you Galliani will be re-instated as some kind of board member for Milan, and Berlusconi will say how he belives in that bold faggot and what good guy he is.

The issue is not about whether we are wrong or not. But whether we have given the fair trial in the court. As I have mentioned in the prior posts the initial sentences did not correspond to the responsibility and the roles played by the various parties leading upto the whole scandal with the fans and shareholder's bearing unjustified proportion of penalties.
And this whole thing about Juve cheated more so that Juve should get more severe penalty is absolute bullshit.
If anyone wants to come up with that argument then they better prepare on what basis they measured severity of guilty and more importantly on what they basis does the sentences correspond to the severity of the guilt as judged by the court.
I am adamant that such basis does not exist and the sentenced were handed in a ad hoc way. And if one cannot come up with the standards used, then I cannot accept this trial to be fair in anyway what so ever
Good post :agree: + rep
 

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,065
Max said:
I think the 17 point penalty and the stripping of the two Scudetti are both fair for Juventus because, let's face it, they plain cheated. Don't be in denial and say they don't deserve it, or say it's not fair to have the second Scudetto taken away. When you win the Scudetto, you get cash boosts as a reward and from sponsors. This cash is used to update the team (Vieira, etc...), and it helps the team (minutely, but surely). It's very just in my own honest opinion.

However, the other three teams should deem themselves lucky for receiving such a break. They are just as guilty.
Its not that we don't deserve it! Its that all teams need to be treated fairly! Which is obviously not the case...this an outrage tbh!

I don't care if Juve is in B or even C as long as all the wrongdoers get punished equally and in proportion of their crime. But only one team out of 11 involved gets punished is just a conspiracy. Fuck Burlasconi e Morratti!
 

PhRoZeN

Livin with Mediocre
Mar 29, 2006
16,931
serfaraaz said:
but as i said before berlusconi might have even bribed the judge of tar to get buffon or ibra
Lets hope this time Moggi is one step ahead :D Even tho it may not mean much to him, its the least he could do.
 

giovanotti

ONE MAN ARMY
Aug 13, 2004
13,725
Jun-hide said:
Today's appeal has only re-inforced my belief that there is something serious fishy going on behind the scene.

I find it utterly disgusting that Milan could find themselves playing in Champions League next season.
Although I hate nothing more than a conspiracy theory, there are too many material to ignore about it. Obviously the fact that UEFA extended their deadline for the Italian registration is a clear evidence that the court pretty much decided upon re-instating Milan to the Champions League in the first place, and my guess is that this was the intention all the long from the very first initial verdict.
By the time we know it, I bet you Galliani will be re-instated as some kind of board member for Milan, and Berlusconi will say how he belives in that bold faggot and what good guy he is.

The issue is not about whether we are wrong or not. But whether we have given the fair trial in the court. As I have mentioned in the prior posts the initial sentences did not correspond to the responsibility and the roles played by the various parties leading upto the whole scandal with the fans and shareholder's bearing unjustified proportion of penalties.
And this whole thing about Juve cheated more so that Juve should get more severe penalty is absolute bullshit.
If anyone wants to come up with that argument then they better prepare on what basis they measured severity of guilty and more importantly on what they basis does the sentences correspond to the severity of the guilt as judged by the court.
I am adamant that such basis does not exist and the sentenced were handed in a ad hoc way. And if one cannot come up with the standards used, then I cannot accept this trial to be fair in anyway what so ever
And another + Rep.
 

serfaraaz

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,912
jun hide u have to accept the Sentence even though unjustice haS happen against juve but we have to accept that we dont have moratti or berlusconi to fill judgeS pockets with money
 

mnementh

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2005
2,122
PhRoZeN said:
So if we continue this appeal, this could go on forever and incidently this would mean serie A and B cannot kick start till possibly october or more. .
no, you're assuming that the league has to be stopped until the league is over. If there's no formal injunction from some supreme italian court to stop the leauge, the FIGC is under no obligation to postpone the league. The european comp will go as usual with the italians that will be submitted now, unless FIGC announces differently. No one will wait for juve, they'll have to quickly settlle the appeal I believe.

It doesn't matter really. The whole thing is fucked up. Few years from now, there will be another scandal and probably it will be Milan or someone else in the center and things will be reshuffled again. I think Juve supporters should feel proud that the only way Juve suffered is because of this process.... one can't beat Juve on the pitch.

Every empire falls and the good ones resurrect themselves
.

It's nice to know that Juve as an empire is not falling because of pure crappiness of the team. For example , Milan fell already twice once because of scandal (80's) and once because of crappiness. So the Juve empire fell for now... like I said, every empire falls once in a while. It's really not that big of a deal as it's obvious it's only temporary. The wheel is round.
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
serfaraaz said:
jun hide u have to accept the Sentence even though unjustice haS happen against juve but we have to accept that we dont have moratti or berlusconi to fill judgeS pockets with money
Well I guess that is the fact of life. Rich people, powerful people gets things they want. That is the rule of world whether it is in America, Asia, Africa or Europe.
Now I would not go as far as Berlusconi and Moratti bribed the judges (I bet you that half of the Italian prosecutors would be :drool: over the prospect & Berlusconi is no fool) and I honestly believe the latter is a great man. Moratti isnt your everyday winner but he has shown to be a compassionate and caring man - the man of higher moral standards than Moggi, Berlusconi, Sensi, and I just cannot imagine Moratti cheating his way through - if he did he sure was bad at it.:D :biggrin: .
Regardless of what went through, I just want those judges to be man, and get off the court and talk to the fans, shareholders face to face on TV without technical languages how they determined the severity of and the penalties correspond to the guilt.
 

Oggy

and the Cockroaches
Dec 27, 2005
7,514
Here is what I red on the Cafejuventus.com :

Cobolli Gigli, Juventus president has just announced two very important things:

1. The club will not accept the 'calciopoli' verdict and they are going to take the matter to the court of justice.

2. Juventus have not signed Fabio Cannavaro away yet, and techinically he still is a Juventus player, even though he already did his own contract with Real Madrid.

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Also I've red somwhere that 2004/2005 scudetto will be stripped, and 2005/2006 scudetto will not be assigned.

I agree no matter what we must continue to appeal, at least to get an equal punishment with Lazio, Fiorentina and Milan.
 
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