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Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
52,533
Our current trouble stems from the inability of those who created this 2020-21 squad to predict how will this team perform.
Indeed, this fiasco is a consequence of many decisions over the last 4-5 years, but the last two nails in the coffin were put this summer when we went after Pirlo and Arthur/McKennie. I'm not sure which of the two was a bigger mistake, because they are connected. Even another coach would have failed with this squad. Not this royally, but failed nonetheless. And even with a better midfield, Pirlo would have failed. Though, no Pirlo or Pirlo+better midfield would have at least guaranteed top 4.

But I'd still go for the midfield selection as the greatest mistake. And this is where the Arthur purchase can be described as disastrous. The guys in charge didn't predict that with Rabiot, Bentancur, and Ramsey we needed to buy two different kinds of midfielders (or of much better quality), or, which is worse imo, they thought Arthur is the guy to complement Rabiot and co. and make things work in midfield. That was a huge miss. McKennie himself is not a terrible buy, but it is in the context.

tl/dr all our troubles are 99% fault of the management. So it's a question of whether we will trust the management to fix the mess they single-handedly created, or we should simply change these guys with new folks.
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
5,610
Our current trouble stems from the inability of those who created this 2020-21 squad to predict how will this team perform.
Indeed, this fiasco is a consequence of many decisions over the last 4-5 years, but the last two nails in the coffin were put this summer when we went after Pirlo and Arthur/McKennie. I'm not sure which of the two was a bigger mistake, because they are connected. Even another coach would have failed with this squad. Not this royally, but failed nonetheless. And even with a better midfield, Pirlo would have failed. Though, no Pirlo or Pirlo+better midfield would have at least guaranteed top 4.

But I'd still go for the midfield selection as the greatest mistake. And this is where the Arthur purchase can be described as disastrous. The guys in charge didn't predict that with Rabiot, Bentancur, and Ramsey we needed to buy two different kinds of midfielders (or of much better quality), or, which is worse imo, they thought Arthur is the guy to complement Rabiot and co. and make things work in midfield. That was a huge miss. McKennie himself is not a terrible buy, but it is in the context.

tl/dr all our troubles are 99% fault of the management. So it's a question of whether we will trust the management to fix the mess they single-handedly created, or we should simply change these guys with new folks.
Pool won the PL with 99 points and CL the season prior with a central midfield of Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Milner. Skills wise, that's as limited midfield as any, Fabinho and Henderson are okayish passers, but none of them is really a playmaker, yet Klopp made it work.

We (and Pirlo as well) are just stuck in old Italian football realities that every team needs to have a regista controlling the tempo of the game and spraying beautiful long balls all over the pitch, there are alternatives to that style of football. Our midfield is below standard (probably 3rd-4th best in Italy based on your preferences), but our coach is Serie C level, clearly the most bizarre and costly mistake we've had not just last summer, but probably the last decade or so.
 

fredrik

Senior Member
Aug 7, 2011
7,234
Pool won the PL with 99 points and CL the season prior with a central midfield of Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum and Milner. Skills wise, that's as limited midfield as any, Fabinho and Henderson are okayish passers, but none of them is really a playmaker, yet Klopp made it work.

We (and Pirlo as well) are just stuck in old Italian football realities that every team needs to have a regista controlling the tempo of the game and spraying beautiful long balls all over the pitch, there are alternatives to that style of football. Our midfield is below standard (probably 3rd-4th best in Italy based on your preferences), but our coach is Serie C level, clearly the most bizarre and costly mistake we've had not just last summer, but probably the last decade or so.
That liverpool midfield had stamina, grit, will and determination our players could only dream of. We have sizzy players with some horrid passing and decitionmaking. Agree that pirlo is serie c level. Spending a full season and not even now understands that players needs to know what the fuck they are supposed to do. There is no plan or system or organization.
 

Jäger

Senior Member
May 2, 2021
1,529
Well Nedved need to go too in that case then. My only shred of respect for this guy is for standing up against Nedved + Agnelli by demanding Pirlo's sacking
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
5,610
That liverpool midfield had stamina, grit, will and determination our players could only dream of. We have sizzy players with some horrid passing and decitionmaking. Agree that pirlo is serie c level. Spending a full season and not even now understands that players needs to know what the fuck they are supposed to do. There is no plan or system or organization.
stamina, grit, will and determination are all impacted by what the coach brings to the table, f.e. Inter before and after Conte. put Rabiot, Bentancur, McKennie and Arthur under Conte's regime and he'll either brake them or make them. Ramsey would be better off to not go to the training session at all though :D
 

fredrik

Senior Member
Aug 7, 2011
7,234
stamina, grit, will and determination are all impacted by what the coach brings to the table, f.e. Inter before and after Conte. put Rabiot, Bentancur, McKennie and Arthur under Conte's regime and he'll either brake them or make them. Ramsey would be better off to not go to the training session at all though :D
Somewhat agree, but i think these characteristic players have or dont. Our mids will never have it, even with conte. He would bench them all, exept macdonald
 

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