Euro 2016 General Discussion Thread (9 Viewers)

Euro 2016 Outright Winner?

  • France

  • Spain

  • Germany

  • England

  • Belgium

  • Portugal

  • Italy

  • Croatia

  • Austria

  • Poland

  • Switzerland

  • Russia

  • Turkey

  • Ukraine

  • Wales

  • Sweden

  • Ireland

  • Iceland

  • Czech Republic

  • Romania

  • Slovakia

  • Northern Ireland

  • Albania

  • Hungary


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Jul 1, 2010
26,336
I see Conte using the "we hit the post 4 times, the players were tired having played only 3 days ago, Malta defended all game" - so what's Croatia excuse then? They played a few days ago too and destroyed Azerbaijan without breaking a sweat.
"Don't forget where we are coming from, we've been eliminated in the group stages in the last two world cups."
 

mukumsplau

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2008
4,434
"Pirlo was man-marked in the last game, but he is accustomed to that. It’s unfortunate that teams take that approach, as it’s damaging to football. I always tell my players that beautiful football leads to victories. We work for an attacking philosophy.”
lol

saw bits of the game...really nasty stuff...since Conte took over i lost my zeal for the Azzurri
 
Mar 3, 2014
3,865
After watching the game, unfortunately I agree with most of you who are saying Conte's Italy will lack creativity. The thing as we all know about Conte is that he plays a very structured, rigid type of game. He has openly admitted that since he lacked creativity in his playing days, he has put that system in order to help players like him thrive, and have predictable movements. I'd say the issue is with both the 3-5-2 and the players he selects.

As an example, we don't have to look any further than Juventus today, which lacks any sort of attacking creativity in the final third. You compare that to Roma, which is the polar opposite of Juve when it comes to creativity. The attack has no focal point, and can break down rigid defenses unlike Juve which can get stumped by a truly effective parked bus. We saw the same thing in the the game today:

-Endless crosses into the box, a tactic characteristic of Moyes' Manchested United.
-Countless long passes into the box, hoping that the strikers can win the aerial battle and create a chance.

Ultimately, we dominated the game, but came out with few chances.

Who sucked:
-Immobile (got in the way of Pelle)
-Florenzi (isn't international quality)
-Bonucci (self explanatory)

Who impressed:
-Pelle: He was awesome. Held up play, dished the ball effectively, unfortunately, Immobile was often invasive, which is not surprising considering they're both prima puntas.
-Verratti: He was the only player who created.
-Giovinco: When he came on, he added another dimension to the attack. Unfortunately, he lacks finishing ability.


The problems that I see with Conte's approach are as follow:

1) The 3-5-2
I have no issue with 3 at the back, but unfortunately, Conte's 3-5-2 is by definition a creative blackhole. You have:
- 3 centrebacks, one in Bonucci who is supposed to provide more service.
- 2 Wingbacks who play straight north-south and do not provide adequate attacking width other than the predictable cross.
- 3 midfielders, all 'centrocampista', with one deep lying playmaker.
- 2 strikers.

You have literally NO CREATIVITY in the final third. All the creativity comes through the deep lying playmaker, and if long passes aren't working you're screwed.
If we're married to having 3 in the back, I think its imperative to include at least one role for one of the 'fantasisti', something that modern calcio significantly lacks. A 3-4-1-2 or a 3-4-2-1 would be much more effective. Better yet, a 4-3-3 would likely be the most effective.

2) His selection of personnel:
STRIKER
a) Immobile is a good finisher, but that is it, and often he got in the way of Graziano Pelle. He really shouldn't start.
b) Graziano Pelle was excellent, and he SHOULD be our striker. Any preconceived notions of the player based off his Serie A career are wrong. He is a menace in the air, a deadly finisher, can shoot from range, and an above average passer (He is everything Llorente should be). I've watched every Southampton game this year, and he's the real deal. Unfortunately, with a prima punta, you still need to give him service. He won't screw up chances, and he will be clinical, but that still doesn't mean you can get away with an offensive blackhole for every player playing in a more advanced position than Pirlo.
MIDFIELD
- In the midfield, you have two workhorses and one regista. The workhorses unfortunately act like strikers a lot of the time, and don't do much in the terms of creation. Conte has said only one midfielder will have the free-role meaning only one of De Rossi, Pirlo, and Verratti will play.
There are a few problems here:
-If you look at many other teams, at least 2 of the midfielders can create (Modric/Rakitic anybody?, Iniesta/Xavi, Kroos/Ozil). Florenzi and Marchisio will not cut it, period.
-De Rossi can play multiple roles and should ALWAYS play.
I think the midfield needs to have at least two positions available for players who are creative and can provide key passes.

DEFENSE:
Wingbacks: Candreva is a good player, but he is not being used effectively in that role. For his to run from touchline to touchline just to cross the ball is underutilizing him. Pascal is slow and isn't effective at anything other than crossing.
Centerbacks: I'd like to see a four man defense, but at centerback there aren't really issues in terms of player selection. We're playing our best defenders, even if they are embarrassing compared to our historical quality.


- - - Updated - - -

Isn't this typical Azzurri play tho? If anything, Prandelli was the one that changed stuff.
The big difference is that we have no more creativity from players like Totti or Del Piero. Those guys made things tick in the final third.
 

Catenaccio

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2002
2,903
Didn't see the game, don't care, so long as we get the 3 points. Qualifying should be relatively straight forward. History shows that a team's performances in qualifying bears almost no relation to how they ultimately perform in the tournament.

Just glad international break is over, we got 6 points, and now looking forward to watch Juve again.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,017
After watching the game, unfortunately I agree with most of you who are saying Conte's Italy will lack creativity. The thing as we all know about Conte is that he plays a very structured, rigid type of game. He has openly admitted that since he lacked creativity in his playing days, he has put that system in order to help players like him thrive, and have predictable movements. I'd say the issue is with both the 3-5-2 and the players he selects.

As an example, we don't have to look any further than Juventus today, which lacks any sort of attacking creativity in the final third. You compare that to Roma, which is the polar opposite of Juve when it comes to creativity. The attack has no focal point, and can break down rigid defenses unlike Juve which can get stumped by a truly effective parked bus. We saw the same thing in the the game today:

-Endless crosses into the box, a tactic characteristic of Moyes' Manchested United.
-Countless long passes into the box, hoping that the strikers can win the aerial battle and create a chance.

Ultimately, we dominated the game, but came out with few chances.

Who sucked:
-Immobile (got in the way of Pelle)
-Florenzi (isn't international quality)
-Bonucci (self explanatory)

Who impressed:
-Pelle: He was awesome. Held up play, dished the ball effectively, unfortunately, Immobile was often invasive, which is not surprising considering they're both prima puntas.
-Verratti: He was the only player who created.
-Giovinco: When he came on, he added another dimension to the attack. Unfortunately, he lacks finishing ability.


The problems that I see with Conte's approach are as follow:

1) The 3-5-2
I have no issue with 3 at the back, but unfortunately, Conte's 3-5-2 is by definition a creative blackhole. You have:
- 3 centrebacks, one in Bonucci who is supposed to provide more service.
- 2 Wingbacks who play straight north-south and do not provide adequate attacking width other than the predictable cross.
- 3 midfielders, all 'centrocampista', with one deep lying playmaker.
- 2 strikers.

You have literally NO CREATIVITY in the final third. All the creativity comes through the deep lying playmaker, and if long passes aren't working you're screwed.
If we're married to having 3 in the back, I think its imperative to include at least one role for one of the 'fantasisti', something that modern calcio significantly lacks. A 3-4-1-2 or a 3-4-2-1 would be much more effective. Better yet, a 4-3-3 would likely be the most effective.

2) His selection of personnel:
STRIKER
a) Immobile is a good finisher, but that is it, and often he got in the way of Graziano Pelle. He really shouldn't start.
b) Graziano Pelle was excellent, and he SHOULD be our striker. Any preconceived notions of the player based off his Serie A career are wrong. He is a menace in the air, a deadly finisher, can shoot from range, and an above average passer (He is everything Llorente should be). I've watched every Southampton game this year, and he's the real deal. Unfortunately, with a prima punta, you still need to give him service. He won't screw up chances, and he will be clinical, but that still doesn't mean you can get away with an offensive blackhole for every player playing in a more advanced position than Pirlo.
MIDFIELD
- In the midfield, you have two workhorses and one regista. The workhorses unfortunately act like strikers a lot of the time, and don't do much in the terms of creation. Conte has said only one midfielder will have the free-role meaning only one of De Rossi, Pirlo, and Verratti will play.
There are a few problems here:
-If you look at many other teams, at least 2 of the midfielders can create (Modric/Rakitic anybody?, Iniesta/Xavi, Kroos/Ozil). Florenzi and Marchisio will not cut it, period.
-De Rossi can play multiple roles and should ALWAYS play.
I think the midfield needs to have at least two positions available for players who are creative and can provide key passes.

DEFENSE:
Wingbacks: Candreva is a good player, but he is not being used effectively in that role. For his to run from touchline to touchline just to cross the ball is underutilizing him. Pascal is slow and isn't effective at anything other than crossing.
Centerbacks: I'd like to see a four man defense, but at centerback there aren't really issues in terms of player selection. We're playing our best defenders, even if they are embarrassing compared to our historical quality.

- - - Updated - - -



The big difference is that we have no more creativity from players like Totti or Del Piero. Those guys made things tick in the final third.
I agree with your analysis :tup:

Was just comparing results wise but you're right, Conte's teams are boring as hell.
 

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