[EU] Champions League 05/06 (14 Viewers)
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Of course the UEFA doesn't fix the draw. It's not in their interest to have a group that consists of Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. That's why they've thought up the seedings system. A group of Milan, FC Thun, Club Brugge and Anderlecht would also be bad for televison ratings. It's actually a very clever system.
I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but I don't look at any massive business (eg UEFA) with a reputation for corruption (eg UEFA (allegedly 
)) and who stand to gain for making something happen, when that something just happens and think, "Oh, that's nice." Especially if I've seen repeated examples.
)) and who stand to gain for making something happen, when that something just happens and think, "Oh, that's nice." Especially if I've seen repeated examples.
Fabiana and John have raised some good points Erik. Most of the big matches talked about over the years have always seemed to come true, including the Liverpool-Juventus matchup of last year 20 years after Heysel. You can figure out the odds of these big matches turning up over the years and I must say we football fans were extremely lucky...
UEFA should buy me some lottery tickets...
UEFA should buy me some lottery tickets...
The odds? The odds are very reasonable because of that whole coefficients and seeding system they've rigged up.
Add to that the facts that UEFA rigged up some extra rules like "teams from the same country should not be paired in the group stages" and shit and the odds, my friend, are of a calibre that makes bookmakers sick in their stomach.
Add to that the facts that UEFA rigged up some extra rules like "teams from the same country should not be paired in the group stages" and shit and the odds, my friend, are of a calibre that makes bookmakers sick in their stomach.
http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200506/story/0,16379,1556247,00.html
Things we ought to know if we're to make sense of this circus Right, there are 32 teams in the this afternoon's draw - apologies, hello, how are you etc. - and they'll be plucked, by one of the usual assortment of elderly men kept in the employ of Uefa, from four groups of eight according to how they rank. The first pot contains Real Madrid, AC Milan, Barcelona, Liverpool, Manchester United, Internazionale, Bayern Munich and Arsenal. How Arsenal are still in that top group continues to befuddle, but never mind. They and United, unlike Chelsea, cannot face holders Liverpool.
Article continues
In the second pot, which may or may not feature balls of a different shade, we find Porto, Juventus, PSV, Lyon, Panathinaikos, Chelsea, Villarreal and Ajax. The third will have the names of Brugge, Anderlecht, Olympiakos, Schalke, Sparta Prague, Lille, Rangers and Werder Bremen tucked away inside those over-sized Kinder Eggs. And the fourth group is made up of Benfica, Rosenborg, Real Betis, Udinese, Fenerbahce, Rapid Vienna, Thun, the mighty Artmedia Bratislava and the Rose and Crown third XI.
"Please, Turner," begins my erstwhile colleague Rob Smyth, "no hilarious quips about United and their easy draws. Rangers, Skonto Riga and Yeovil you say? Ah."
Nonsense, the lot of it "Can anyone out there explain the bizzare workings of Uefa's co-efficients?" asks Adam Taylor, scratching his bonce. "As a myopic United fan, even I'm struggling to justify our seeding above Chelsea or Juventus. Maybe someone out there can shed light on Arsenal's rating, or Inter's for that matter. And why, prey tell, are the mighty Panathinaikos rated one place above Chelsea?" I've a feeling that the rankings, like most of Uefa's decisions [apparently, probably and any other caveat that may prevent legal action], are decided by blindfolding Lennart Johansson after a hefty meal, spinning him round and round, then seeing what he says in between heaves.
Conspiracy theories "Tell Rob Smyth that it's not a hilarious quip that United always get easy draws," snorts Geraint Copp, "it's just your duty as a dedicated journalist. The truth must be known."
A United fan replies "I, for one, would like a tough draw for United," insists Russell George. "Given that we haven't won a two-legged European game for years, it would be better to play a few decent teams first. It's not good preparation playing Slavia Rubbish in the group stages when you have to play Milan in the knockouts. Let Arsenal have the easy draw - they need it more than us." I've just started a slanging match, haven't I?
Uefa works in mysterious ways David Lipman assures me there's a full explanation of Uefa's coefficients here. Unfortunately I was unable to verify that claim for fear of nodding off at a vital hour, so forgive me if it in fact leads you to all sorts of nudie unpleasantness.
An Arsenal fan replies... via a worringly lengthy essay John Bayliss has written in to assure us that Arsenal's continued high ranking is based on nine years of consistent performance, which almost convinced me. His argument was let down only slightly by the assertion that Chelsea's lowly status is down to the fact that they're all 'chavs'.
Let's get down to business Right, [in my finest, over-excited red coat voice] we're just moments away from the draw! Eyes down...
Or not... Ye gads. Not only has Jim Rosenthal somehow landed this gig, but the draw is being delayed by half an hour so that Uefa can make use of some of last season's footage. They're going to pick out their team of the year, highlighting the best goalkeeper, defender, midfielder and forward. Will Jerzy Dudek be moonwalking up to the stage?
More Arsenal v Man United jiggery-pokery "Would Arsenal's consistency in the last nine years be in getting knocked out early every time?" asks Daniel Perry and various others.
Spicing up the Champions League "Surely it can only be a matter of time before Uefa see sense and allow previous winners to enter at the group stage, thus ensuring League One strugglers Nottingham Forest are restored to their rightful place at the top table of European football," Paul Woodall suggests. "I haven't been drinking. Honest."
Those awards Kaka's just collecting his best midfielder award [and looking mightily chuffed he is too], so I fear I may have missed the best goalkeeper award while lost in Jim's tiny little whirlpool eyes. Don't worry, I'm on it. [After consulting with my more attentive colleague Mr Paul Doyle] Petr Cech was named best goalkeeper, and his Chelsea team-mate John Terry has just been named the best defender. Neither bothered making the trip to Monte Carlo today, so the ageing cronies they get to hand out these things has to make do with a besequinned young female escort from the stage.
...and Ronaldinho's just scooped the striker award in a dapper pinstripe suit. We're at very real risk of something meaningful happening soon, just as soon as Uefa dole out the award for most valuable [yawn] player.
Spicing up revisited "Maybe there should be a system whereby if a team that 'always' qualifies for the group stages is so consistently ineffective as Arsenal, then after a number of years of mediocrity they lose their right to qualify for a year, thus giving the fifth/sixth/seventh placed team an opportunity," suggests Graeme Westwood. "Three strikes and you're out, or something like that." The man's got a point, Lennart.
The forehead strikes back Steven Gerrard is in the process of accepting his MVP award. "I'm still in shock to be honest," he says, and you almost believe him. Almost, mind. I think that's the procrastination over.
"Will Jim Rosenthal announce the draw with an 'ah ha ha' after every sentence, a la his doppelganger the Count from Sesame Street?" asks James Houston. "No? Why not?!"
Blah, blah, blah Lennart Johansson has earned his latest gazillion by waddling upstage and announcing a new Champions League logo. I for one am almost faint with excitement.
So... Arsenal get a draw so easy [Ajax, Sparta Prague and Thun] surely even they will make it through; Liverpool and Chelsea meet in group G along with Anderlecht and Real Betis; Manchester United face debutants Villarreal [Diego Forlan back at Old Trafford?], Benfica and Lille; and Rangers complete group H with Inter, Porto and Artmedia. We're on the phone to Guinness World Records right now, confirming that that was the longest draw in history, but if you're still awake, we'll bring you quotes from the relevant parties as they come in.
Manchester United secretary Ken Ramsden looked delighted with the club's lot. "I think the manager will be pleased with that draw," he said. "There's a long way to go yet but there's no reason we should be frightened of anybody."
Rangers' Martin Bain said the club was fairly pleased with the draw. "It could have been a lot worse," he said. "The chairman predicted we would get Artmedia and he was right. We saw what happened with Celtic so we'll be giving them every bit of respect. There's no reason why we can't do well in Europe, and after the draw today, I think Alex [McLeish] will be determined to do his best."
Arsenal vice-chairman David Dein is determined to see his side meet their potential this time out. "We need to succeed in Europe. We have only got to the quarter-finals and this is an interesting task for us. We are always asked the question why we do not do better as with success comes expectation. We have got to get as far as we can in the Champions League. We have played Ajax before and played in a pre-season tournament there a few weeks ago. It is interesting."
And striker Dennis Bergkamp added: "In my mind, the Premiership is always the most important but if you look at a list of titles which I haven't won, then that is something I would like to win and I am not the only one. We all realise that you don't get the chance to do it with a big team so many times in your career. The closest I have been is the last eight twice with Arsenal."
Steven Gerrard says he's looking forward to two "great games" when Liverpool play Chelsea in group G. "It was a special atmosphere and and a special match and I'm sure it will be very close this time," he said. "They are a fantastic team with a special manager. They will be two great games. I don't think it was a surprise. When we didn't get country protection there was always a chance.
"It's a very exciting group and there are some very tough games to look forward to. Our fans are very special and I'm sure they will lift the roof off again. They're games you want to play in as a player, but they'll be very tough. It would be nice to see the English team progress - we hope we don't cancel each other out. Betis and Anderlecht are very tough teams, we will have to be on our toes to qualify."
Also at the ceremony was Jerzy Dudek, who kept things simple by saying: "I think we have a chance to go through. We will do our best."
Hilarious reading
Things we ought to know if we're to make sense of this circus Right, there are 32 teams in the this afternoon's draw - apologies, hello, how are you etc. - and they'll be plucked, by one of the usual assortment of elderly men kept in the employ of Uefa, from four groups of eight according to how they rank. The first pot contains Real Madrid, AC Milan, Barcelona, Liverpool, Manchester United, Internazionale, Bayern Munich and Arsenal. How Arsenal are still in that top group continues to befuddle, but never mind. They and United, unlike Chelsea, cannot face holders Liverpool.
Article continues
In the second pot, which may or may not feature balls of a different shade, we find Porto, Juventus, PSV, Lyon, Panathinaikos, Chelsea, Villarreal and Ajax. The third will have the names of Brugge, Anderlecht, Olympiakos, Schalke, Sparta Prague, Lille, Rangers and Werder Bremen tucked away inside those over-sized Kinder Eggs. And the fourth group is made up of Benfica, Rosenborg, Real Betis, Udinese, Fenerbahce, Rapid Vienna, Thun, the mighty Artmedia Bratislava and the Rose and Crown third XI.
"Please, Turner," begins my erstwhile colleague Rob Smyth, "no hilarious quips about United and their easy draws. Rangers, Skonto Riga and Yeovil you say? Ah."
Nonsense, the lot of it "Can anyone out there explain the bizzare workings of Uefa's co-efficients?" asks Adam Taylor, scratching his bonce. "As a myopic United fan, even I'm struggling to justify our seeding above Chelsea or Juventus. Maybe someone out there can shed light on Arsenal's rating, or Inter's for that matter. And why, prey tell, are the mighty Panathinaikos rated one place above Chelsea?" I've a feeling that the rankings, like most of Uefa's decisions [apparently, probably and any other caveat that may prevent legal action], are decided by blindfolding Lennart Johansson after a hefty meal, spinning him round and round, then seeing what he says in between heaves.
Conspiracy theories "Tell Rob Smyth that it's not a hilarious quip that United always get easy draws," snorts Geraint Copp, "it's just your duty as a dedicated journalist. The truth must be known."
A United fan replies "I, for one, would like a tough draw for United," insists Russell George. "Given that we haven't won a two-legged European game for years, it would be better to play a few decent teams first. It's not good preparation playing Slavia Rubbish in the group stages when you have to play Milan in the knockouts. Let Arsenal have the easy draw - they need it more than us." I've just started a slanging match, haven't I?
Uefa works in mysterious ways David Lipman assures me there's a full explanation of Uefa's coefficients here. Unfortunately I was unable to verify that claim for fear of nodding off at a vital hour, so forgive me if it in fact leads you to all sorts of nudie unpleasantness.
An Arsenal fan replies... via a worringly lengthy essay John Bayliss has written in to assure us that Arsenal's continued high ranking is based on nine years of consistent performance, which almost convinced me. His argument was let down only slightly by the assertion that Chelsea's lowly status is down to the fact that they're all 'chavs'.
Let's get down to business Right, [in my finest, over-excited red coat voice] we're just moments away from the draw! Eyes down...
Or not... Ye gads. Not only has Jim Rosenthal somehow landed this gig, but the draw is being delayed by half an hour so that Uefa can make use of some of last season's footage. They're going to pick out their team of the year, highlighting the best goalkeeper, defender, midfielder and forward. Will Jerzy Dudek be moonwalking up to the stage?
More Arsenal v Man United jiggery-pokery "Would Arsenal's consistency in the last nine years be in getting knocked out early every time?" asks Daniel Perry and various others.
Spicing up the Champions League "Surely it can only be a matter of time before Uefa see sense and allow previous winners to enter at the group stage, thus ensuring League One strugglers Nottingham Forest are restored to their rightful place at the top table of European football," Paul Woodall suggests. "I haven't been drinking. Honest."
Those awards Kaka's just collecting his best midfielder award [and looking mightily chuffed he is too], so I fear I may have missed the best goalkeeper award while lost in Jim's tiny little whirlpool eyes. Don't worry, I'm on it. [After consulting with my more attentive colleague Mr Paul Doyle] Petr Cech was named best goalkeeper, and his Chelsea team-mate John Terry has just been named the best defender. Neither bothered making the trip to Monte Carlo today, so the ageing cronies they get to hand out these things has to make do with a besequinned young female escort from the stage.
...and Ronaldinho's just scooped the striker award in a dapper pinstripe suit. We're at very real risk of something meaningful happening soon, just as soon as Uefa dole out the award for most valuable [yawn] player.
Spicing up revisited "Maybe there should be a system whereby if a team that 'always' qualifies for the group stages is so consistently ineffective as Arsenal, then after a number of years of mediocrity they lose their right to qualify for a year, thus giving the fifth/sixth/seventh placed team an opportunity," suggests Graeme Westwood. "Three strikes and you're out, or something like that." The man's got a point, Lennart.
The forehead strikes back Steven Gerrard is in the process of accepting his MVP award. "I'm still in shock to be honest," he says, and you almost believe him. Almost, mind. I think that's the procrastination over.
"Will Jim Rosenthal announce the draw with an 'ah ha ha' after every sentence, a la his doppelganger the Count from Sesame Street?" asks James Houston. "No? Why not?!"
Blah, blah, blah Lennart Johansson has earned his latest gazillion by waddling upstage and announcing a new Champions League logo. I for one am almost faint with excitement.
So... Arsenal get a draw so easy [Ajax, Sparta Prague and Thun] surely even they will make it through; Liverpool and Chelsea meet in group G along with Anderlecht and Real Betis; Manchester United face debutants Villarreal [Diego Forlan back at Old Trafford?], Benfica and Lille; and Rangers complete group H with Inter, Porto and Artmedia. We're on the phone to Guinness World Records right now, confirming that that was the longest draw in history, but if you're still awake, we'll bring you quotes from the relevant parties as they come in.
Manchester United secretary Ken Ramsden looked delighted with the club's lot. "I think the manager will be pleased with that draw," he said. "There's a long way to go yet but there's no reason we should be frightened of anybody."
Rangers' Martin Bain said the club was fairly pleased with the draw. "It could have been a lot worse," he said. "The chairman predicted we would get Artmedia and he was right. We saw what happened with Celtic so we'll be giving them every bit of respect. There's no reason why we can't do well in Europe, and after the draw today, I think Alex [McLeish] will be determined to do his best."
Arsenal vice-chairman David Dein is determined to see his side meet their potential this time out. "We need to succeed in Europe. We have only got to the quarter-finals and this is an interesting task for us. We are always asked the question why we do not do better as with success comes expectation. We have got to get as far as we can in the Champions League. We have played Ajax before and played in a pre-season tournament there a few weeks ago. It is interesting."
And striker Dennis Bergkamp added: "In my mind, the Premiership is always the most important but if you look at a list of titles which I haven't won, then that is something I would like to win and I am not the only one. We all realise that you don't get the chance to do it with a big team so many times in your career. The closest I have been is the last eight twice with Arsenal."
Steven Gerrard says he's looking forward to two "great games" when Liverpool play Chelsea in group G. "It was a special atmosphere and and a special match and I'm sure it will be very close this time," he said. "They are a fantastic team with a special manager. They will be two great games. I don't think it was a surprise. When we didn't get country protection there was always a chance.
"It's a very exciting group and there are some very tough games to look forward to. Our fans are very special and I'm sure they will lift the roof off again. They're games you want to play in as a player, but they'll be very tough. It would be nice to see the English team progress - we hope we don't cancel each other out. Betis and Anderlecht are very tough teams, we will have to be on our toes to qualify."
Also at the ceremony was Jerzy Dudek, who kept things simple by saying: "I think we have a chance to go through. We will do our best."
Hilarious reading
i think uefa shud use the same rules that are used at euros and the worldcup..atleast in the knock out stages of the competition.
for eg there shud be a predetermined rule that shud state that the winners of the group A would meet the runnersup of the group B etc in the 2nd round.
this way there would be less accusations of rigging the draw.
though i have to admit,not having such rules DOES make the game more unpredictable and more exciting.
for eg there shud be a predetermined rule that shud state that the winners of the group A would meet the runnersup of the group B etc in the 2nd round.
this way there would be less accusations of rigging the draw.
though i have to admit,not having such rules DOES make the game more unpredictable and more exciting.
